HALO/HAHO?

[patrick liew]

What is the difference in the equipment between a HALO and a HAHO parachutist?

[dumper]

Basically no difference to parachute (unless your jumping Static Line). With HAHO a greater emphasis is placed on navigation, so the jumper or team leader may have a compass/GPS-usually on the chest strap or top of the ruck/pack where it can be easily seen. Some jumpers attach longer straps from the toggles to the feet to steer with, so their arms aren't up for the whole flight. I've also seen and tried attaching adjustable straps from the feet to the harness, after opening they are tightened to bring the legs up into a more natural sitting position to prevent loss of circulation due to the harness, but this is generally more trouble than it's worth-and may present other problems. Exposure to cold is of greater concern due to a much longer period at high altitude, so Gore-Tex or similar overclothes as well as thicker gloves are worn.

[This message has been edited by dumper (edited 12-30-2000).]

[Ritchie]

A very good answer of dumper, I think he have done it for real!

[Mart01]

I knew I would find you here, Ritchie. Check out the string on Navy Seals Free falling in Vietnam, it might get interresting.

[neoprogressivedoraemon]

I have another simple questions???
What about Oxygen supplyment in HALO???
And actually I'm army reservist,I am not familiar with parachute too much but sometime.
But I just curious about....
How many feet we should to use Oxygen tank?????
I heard about HALO at 36,500 feet and delay for 180 seconds ,open the parachute at 5,000 feet and use Oxygen tank too.
(3 minutes = about 30,000 feet approximately.)
But in another hand,at 10,000 feet,delay 30 seconds,but open at 8,500 feet.
(First 15-30 seconds = 1,500 feet-2,000 feet approximately.)
But I still really really don't know about how many feet is maximum to jump without Oxygen?????
Look like between 10,000 to 30,000 feet but how many????
If somebody can tell me,I will very very appreciate.
Thank you very much.

[fish78]

Somebody tell me how it is possible to freefall while attached to a staic line? In order to do High Altitude High opening or to do High Altitude Low opening you must free fall...how is that done atrached to static line?

[fish78]

Originally posted by Mart01
I knew I would find you here, Ritchie. Check out the string on Navy Seals Free falling in Vietnam, it might get interresting.

Yo stud,
Give me one verifiable example of any SEAL ever arriiving ina combat zone in RVN via parachute.

[Andy0331]

Somebody tell me how it is possible to freefall while attached to a staic line? In order to do High Altitude High opening or to do High Altitude Low opening you must free fall...how is that done atrached to static line?

I could very well be wrong but it is my understanding that some HAHO jumps were (or could be) conducted with a static line, provided you were jumping a square. The theory is since you are opening high, just have the SL pull for you instead of allowing for more human error in deployment altitude. Say you have a team jumping HAHO & one member has bad position & pulls say 5 seconds after everyone else. He is now approx 1,000 ft below the others & that could severly affect the distance they could travel as a group.

From what I've read though, no one likes to jump a static line square, as it is much more dangerous than SL round.

Of course I have no personal experience with MFF, only civilian skydiving so I could very well be wrong.

Andy

[fish78]

Andy, what you say makes sense...I also have no MFF experience.

[SN]

USSOCOM has a "StaticLine Square", I believe they call it the MC-5. I remember them testing it at Ft Bragg (92-93 timeframe?). Basically it is a MC-4 that is modified with a staticline.

[Andy0331]

WSC, you're right on the MC-5, it is a square that can be configured for static line use or pilot chute deployment.

[Ripstop]

Pretty much as Andy0331 said, static line can be used for HAHO jumps.

As for when to start using O2 depends to a certain extent on who you ask. Different countries have slightly different SOP's on when it should be used for aircrew etc. Civilian jumpers often go up to 15 000 feet without bail-out bottles, but they are not planning on being inside the plane or at that altitude for long, and how quickly you are affected depends on a number of things like time at altitude, age, state of health, fitness and whether you are hung-over or not. Most civilian aircraft will have a walk-around bottle in the plane that jumpers can use for a quick breath before they exit.

Most aircrew will be on O2 above 10 000 during the day and 8 000 at night because they need to have all their wits about them as they are flying an aircraft, this is usually governed by local rules and regulations (FAA etc). As to what height military jumpers are on O2 will be governed by their own SOP's, generally if it's not going to be over 15 000 feet then they may just use a walk-around bottle in the aircraft as required, but most countries i have worked with prefer their jumpers to be on 02 if they are planning on being above 12 000 feet for any length of time.

However the rules change as you go higher, neoprogressivedoraemon, at the heights you are refering to, the jumpers will definately be on O2 for the whole jump and will have been pre-breathing 100% oxygen for at least 30 minutes before being exposed to that altitude to eliminate as much nitrogen from their system as possible.

Ripstop

[DFC5343]

This message landed here for someone with the knowledge to answer instaed of all the guessing.

[dueterium]

Tracy,
I thought it was TAS not IAS that was high. I think that IAS stall speed doesn't change as you go up in altitude. Cetainly TAS goes to the roof but the "speedometer" the pilot uses, KIAS, "I" for indicated will still read the normal stall speed. BTW I'm just a private pilot so I could be full of shit.


JC
MFFJM

[KJ]

Tracy - I am a retired guy too (but I was a PJ). I think you might have got a little confused on the KIAS. C-130 drop speeds were as low as we could talk them into getting, but as of 2 or 3 years ago, they banded together (published an AFI) and seem pretty stubborn about 125 KIAS. I don't doubt you have done a HAHO (a REAL HAHO), and that's saying a lot coming from me. I am so tired of hearing (as I bet you are too), of these 'experts' in HAHO that did a jump below 18,000 feet (usually they are at 10,000!), right over the top of the DZ, and now they are the pros from Dover. Sorry, in my book, that is a canopy grouping exercise, not a HAHO. You should know that I was always in favor of rolling the nose to prevent that 'more than damn hard' HAHO opening shock. Saw a buddy of mine (who didn't roll the nose) get knocked unconscious one time, with the stitching in the leg straps all tore out (but that was at 32,000). Rolling the nose worked good at slowing down the opening, but once the riggers took over all the packing, I think it became a lost art. Oxygen - well the AF requires O2 (for jumpers) over 10,000ft and allow a 10 to 13,000 foot window of 30 minutes without O2 for quick jumps. I do remember the days when we could go up to 18,000 without O2, but truth be told I got dizzy more than once doing that. Pre-breathing is required above 18,000 as well as at least two PTs on board. Don't think anybody can go above 32,000 feet anymore legally. Used to be able to go to 35,000 if you had the twin bottles with a straight adapter and not a bent one on the green O2 line. But, no more. Besides, that high up is like "curvature of the earth baby". Start thinking about a friggin space suit. GPS - nice to have, but the nav, JM and TL better have done a really good map study and pray for no clouds. Winds - we had some HP48's programed with the latest HAHO formula to get the best HARP and CARP depending on your safety factor and tracked it out on a map before we went out. I really cracked up watching that SEAL movie where these guys are supposedly doing a 35,000 HAHO and they are moving their O2 masks aside to talk to each other. Try that for real and you be floppin' like a fish on the cargo floor at best and dead at worst. If you ain't jumping comm, then I think you are jumping dumb, or looking to get seperated. Equipment differences - parachute packing but the same rig will work. Would not recommend static lining the MC-5 as it is better to stagger the opening delays for a good formation. Besides, who needs that cannon ball shit when you are wearing a ton o' shit anyway. Mostly, as mentioned before, cold weather gear, cause it is freezing up there. Toggle extensions are really nice, but the best trick is to not have the team go to full flight until they absolutely have to. (Use those trim tabs baby!). Unless you like frostbite and dead arms, you can't rely on holding your toggles like you do in a HALO. Just my two cents worth.