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-   -   Blackwater Guards To Be Tried (http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=120220)

iraqgunz 11 May 2014 04:43

Blackwater Guards To Be Tried
 
Ok, all bullshit aside, this is ridiculous. It has been almost 7 years since this happened. A Federal judge dismissed charges against one of them due to statute of limitation concerns.

Only one of them is being charged with murder, while the others are being charged with manslaughter. As I recall the entire crime scene was a goat fuck and totally contaminated.

Even more disgusting is that they are going after these guys, but "dude Benghazi was like 2 years ago".

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...harge-23657827

Box 11 May 2014 05:11

...its all about the victims.

On one hand you have a US ambassador killed over a religiously sensitive youtube video.
On the other, an Iraqi civilian killed purely so that Darth Chaney could put bloody oil money in his evil capitalist bank account.

Clearly you see the importance of what is going on here? War profiteers must be punished.

The Corporate Guy 11 May 2014 08:43

There is no statute of limitations on a 1st degree murder charge.

Macka 11 May 2014 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraqgunz (Post 1058391305)
Ok, all bullshit aside, this is ridiculous. It has been almost 7 years since this happened. A Federal judge dismissed charges against one of them due to statute of limitation concerns.

As a general rule, the statute of limitation for a crime is usually comparable to the maximum sentence for said crime. It may vary from state to state as well as the Feds.

In Massachusetts we have a minimum statute of limitations for lower level offenses of 6 years and no limit for murder since the maxim imam sentence is life.

Rockville 11 May 2014 09:06

the U.S. Attorney's Office in Washington, D.C........
So unAmerican

IrishSoldier 11 May 2014 09:10

How are they supposed to receive due process if the crime scene is on a battlefield and the host nation witnesses are coerced by their government?

This is utter bullshit and probably linked to a civil suit.

Big surprise the US attorney in DC came from one of the law firms doing "pro bono" work at Guantanamo and is a coworker with Jamie Gorelick.

Xdeth 11 May 2014 09:13

The only thing that's bullshit is the number of people also responsible that walked away from it all with no repercussion, others, state dept personnel, and former BW management. This should have been tied up with a bow right after the incident, might want to revisit instituting UCMJ and summary processes for PMC in any theatre of war.

bobofthedesert 11 May 2014 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach (Post 1058391308)
On one hand you have a US ambassador killed over a religiously sensitive youtube video.

No.

Box 11 May 2014 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobofthedesert (Post 1058391334)
No.

yes...
POTUS and DOS said so

SOTB 11 May 2014 10:26

The trial -- and subsequent punishment (hopefully there is), is long overdue....

KS11 11 May 2014 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOTB (Post 1058391343)
The trial -- and subsequent punishment (hopefully there is), is long overdue....

Hater. :tongue:

In all seriousness, I wasn't there for that event and have no special insight, but I witnessed enough ridiculous behavior in other events (dudes just itching to get trigger time, and sometimes creating their own problem just so they could) that I certainly won't automatically jump to these guys' defense.

What's the PMC equivalent of the the Thin Blue Line?

Silverbullet 11 May 2014 12:25

Regardless of the actions of those invovled in this incident, it's striking if you compare this against Benghazi. Blood on the hands of Hillary Clinton, the President, SecDef and a a host of others.

Guess Iraqi blood is more valuable than American blood...

I'm amazed by the poor leadership displayed by those who Slatten reported to. Just one payback comment should have gotten him fired. The fact he repeated it as well as the other allegations indicates some serious problems with leaders at state and BW.

The icing on the cake is whether he was one of those who thought it was cool to get a BW tatoo. IMO anyone who did is automatically disqualified from ever working on any project I'm associated with. Lol

iraqgunz 11 May 2014 15:53

My comparison was simply this. I have no idea if they did or didn't do anything wrong. But the entire thing was botched from the legal standpoint. Crime scene was trashed, witnesses, etc... had it been dealt with quickly and efficiently from the beginning and had the USG actually done something I may have been ok with it, but they didn't. And my feeling is that they only took action due to politics.

My mentioning of Benghazi was in reference to the fact that 4 Americans were killed almost 2 years ago and no one on our side has been held accountable. Yet, we are still trying to go after 4 Americans who may or may not have acted unlawfully.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverbullet (Post 1058391365)
Regardless of the actions of those invovled in this incident, it's striking if you compare this against Benghazi. Blood on the hands of Hillary Clinton, the President, SecDef and a a host of others.

Guess Iraqi blood is more valuable than American blood...

I'm amazed by the poor leadership displayed by those who Slatten reported to. Just one payback comment should have gotten him fired. The fact he repeated it as well as the other allegations indicates some serious problems with leaders at state and BW.

The icing on the cake is whether he was one of those who thought it was cool to get a BW tatoo. IMO anyone who did is automatically disqualified from ever working on any project I'm associated with. Lol


iraqgunz 11 May 2014 15:57

If you read the article, the guy mentioned was being charged with manslaughter. After a federal judge dismissed that charge based on statute of limitation concerns, they then decided to use the murder charge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macka (Post 1058391325)
As a general rule, the statute of limitation for a crime is usually comparable to the maximum sentence for said crime. It may vary from state to state as well as the Feds.

In Massachusetts we have a minimum statute of limitations for lower level offenses of 6 years and no limit for murder since the maxim imam sentence is life.


Silverbullet 11 May 2014 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraqgunz (Post 1058391408)
My comparison was simply this. I have no idea if they did or didn't do anything wrong. But the entire thing was botched from the legal standpoint. Crime scene was trashed, witnesses, etc... had it been dealt with quickly and efficiently from the beginning and had the USG actually done something I may have been ok with it, but they didn't. And my feeling is that they only took action due to politics.

My mentioning of Benghazi was in reference to the fact that 4 Americans were killed almost 2 years ago and no one on our side has been held accountable. Yet, we are still trying to go after 4 Americans who may or may not have acted unlawfully.

Not sure why you quoted me and posted this. I didn't comment on anything you said.

iraqgunz 11 May 2014 16:42

SB,

I guess I misunderstood your previous post above.

Polypro 12 May 2014 09:17

This whole thing started under the Bush admin, correct? Sacrificial lambs so the contractor war machine could keep making $$$'s after a SOFA was signed - Ooops, no SOFA. And like everything else, the current admin ran with it (Like the Drake prosecution, etc...) because a bunch of DA's/AAG's want to make names for themselves.

Just like that former Ranger in jail for interrogation in A-Stan ...all while places like Camp NAMA were in full swing. Or entire occupied apartment buildings being leveled to try and get one guy.

They're all a blight on humanity.

These guys? Yeah, no automatic defense here either, cuz amateurs were all over the place over there... but this is political scape goating run amok, if you ask me.

MSRT1 12 May 2014 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polypro (Post 1058391544)
These guys? Yeah, no automatic defense here either, cuz amateurs were all over the place over there... but this is political scape goating run amok, if you ask me.

As one who ran the WPPS guys through the vetting process down in Moyock, the bolded statement is SO fucking dead on!
Yes, even a Coastie could see that BW was sending people over there that had zero business watching anyone's back. Most were pretty solid but some were downright scary! They were advertising the positions on Monster for crying out loud.

Purgatory 12 May 2014 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polypro (Post 1058391544)
cuz amateurs were all over the place over there... but this is political scape goating run amok, if you ask me.

Polypro..... No shit DEC 2003, there I was at Moyock and I was in a class to head over on the Bremer Detail.... and yes, the senior trainer asked the class "Who here hasn't shot an M-4 carbine before?" .. guys actually raised their hands...... Immediately I knew I was in the wrong room.... (then there was created 3CGI, as it was referred to then, they called and pulled me out of that train wreck !!!, and that was that, thank God).

Wrongs being wrongs, I still think it is beyond fucked up to used protected statements in the prosecutions.......

Xdeth 12 May 2014 14:08

Ego was the biggest problem, top to bottom this is what's really behind just about every major debacle the company faced. Amateur might have gone hand in hand with some of that but more often it was the opposite.

There was also courage and exceptional actions taken by BW personnel, a lot of it.

MixedLoad 12 May 2014 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraqgunz (Post 1058391408)
... But the entire thing was botched from the legal standpoint. Crime scene was trashed, witnesses, etc... had it been dealt with quickly and efficiently from the beginning and had the USG actually done something I may have been ok with it, but they didn't....

What crime-scene? What witnesses? How do you deal with something like that quickly and efficiently?

There was nothing that would have been conducted even remotely resembling a stateside criminal investigation.To assume anyone could have done otherwise, especially on that day, is laughable.

The FBI, when they showed up, were so fucking clueless it was almost scary. When the DOJ assumes that every PSD just goes guns hot from point of departure to venue and back you know there are going to be some minor issues...:rolleyes:

What happened that day was a fucking disaster and I'll leave it at that. In those days things were still quite active as the VBIED on at Izdihar illustrated that day before the shooting started.

In the end this renewed focus is an attempt to derail attention from the Administration and their criminal handling of Benghazi.

iraqgunz 12 May 2014 15:50

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixedLoad (Post 1058391662)
What crime-scene? What witnesses? How do you deal with something like that quickly and efficiently?

There was nothing that would have been conducted even remotely resembling a stateside criminal investigation.To assume anyone could have done otherwise, especially on that day, is laughable.

The FBI, when they showed up, were so fucking clueless it was almost scary. When the DOJ assumes that every PSD just goes guns hot from point of departure to venue and back you know there are going to be some minor issues...:rolleyes:

What happened that day was a fucking disaster and I'll leave it at that. In those days things were still quite active as the VBIED on at Izdihar illustrated that day before the shooting started.

In the end this renewed focus is an attempt to derail attention from the Administration and their criminal handling of Benghazi.


Polypro 12 May 2014 15:55

I want to clarify that my "amateur" comment wasn't directed to anyone specifically, or even any company... just that there were yahoo's everywhere over there (even in my company), and that's why an automatic defense wasn't applicable. All companies had duds and studs.

OfficeSloth 10 July 2014 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polypro (Post 1058391684)
I want to clarify that my "amateur" comment wasn't directed to anyone specifically, or even any company... just that there were yahoo's everywhere over there (even in my company), and that's why an automatic defense wasn't applicable. All companies had duds and studs.

I just re-read this thread as the trial is ramping up more now. Poly, this isn't directed at you, but is a general observation. I find it interesting how many people are quick to point out the amateur side of the contracting world, but fail to mention all the amateurs in uniform who acted like ass hats back then.

Ultimately, ML hit the nail on the head. Whether the contractors were right, wrong, or indifferent, this investigation was botched from the outset and now appears to many to have devolved into nothing more than a politicized mess and witch hunt.

MoonDog 11 July 2014 09:42

IMO, this case is a set-up that had been looking for a scapegoat for several years. All the liberals needed was a gathering of knuckleheads at the right time, right place.

Approximately a year before this event happened, a liberal Democrat politician from Rhode Island and his aid were in Mosul to investigate why Operation Mosul Safe Day had gone so terribly wrong.

After the tour, the two were inside the vehicle (I guess they forgot the vehicle was filled with PSD types) and were openly discussing how the war was out of control, the Army and the contractors were "like little boys playing war", and they (the liberals) needed to make examples of civilian contractors and aggressive military types in order to show how "bad" the war had become. (war for profit, human rights, etc.) At that point, the two realized there were 4 PSD types in the same vehicle and they decided to hold the rest of the conversation in private.

Fast forward and look what's happening....a corrupt Admin/DoJ was looking for an excuse, and are now doing everything possible to burn the CONCEPT of private security/PSD as a part of the combined war effort. (Of course it helps their cause when PSD types act like a friggin' clown car full of special needs children.)

If this case is successfully prosecuted, look for some type of "feel good" legislation attempting to minimize/eliminate contractors in war zones.

Dino0311 12 July 2014 00:12

If that's the case, then these idiots obliged them by providing the perfect opportunity.

Gud Stick 12 July 2014 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach (Post 1058391308)
...its all about the victims.

On one hand you have a US ambassador killed over a religiously sensitive youtube video.
On the other, an Iraqi civilian killed purely so that Darth Chaney could put bloody oil money in his evil capitalist bank account.

Clearly you see the importance of what is going on here? War profiteers must be punished.

Looks like you are still drinking the KoolAid. The "video" had NOTHING to do with the Bengazi killings.

bobofthedesert 12 July 2014 11:58

IIRC the FBI was unable to match ANY of the green tip taken from the bodies of dead/wounded civilians to any of the weapons used by the BW guys? Or do I have that wrong?

Frog 12 July 2014 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gud Stick (Post 1058405631)
Looks like you are still drinking the KoolAid. The "video" had NOTHING to do with the Bengazi killings.


Gud Stick, Post an introduction in the proper forum per the instructions you received when you became a member. Any further posts without an intro will be deleted.

gavin 12 July 2014 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gud Stick (Post 1058405631)
Looks like you are still drinking the KoolAid. The "video" had NOTHING to do with the Bengazi killings.

Looks like you don't understand satire. Your "post" has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.

MixedLoad 12 July 2014 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gud Stick (Post 1058405631)
Looks like you are still drinking the KoolAid. The "video" had NOTHING to do with the Bengazi killings.

Your analytical skills are unmatched on this forum.

Box 13 July 2014 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gud Stick (Post 1058405631)
Looks like you are still drinking the KoolAid. The "video" had NOTHING to do with the Bengazi killings.


Yes it did.

The government said so.
...and Hillary is STILL sticking to her guns on it.

iraqgunz 13 July 2014 07:45

Gud stick says you need to reduce your Kool-Aid intake. Apparently you have had too much of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach (Post 1058405734)
Yes it did.

The government said so.
...and Hillary is STILL sticking to her guns on it.


Polypro 13 July 2014 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by OfficeSloth (Post 1058405361)
I just re-read this thread as the trial is ramping up more now. Poly, this isn't directed at you, but is a general observation.

Roger dodger. We didn't really interact too much, with .mil.

Shadow 22 October 2014 13:24

The verdict's in:

Former Blackwater Guards Convicted in Iraq Shooting

By MATT APUZZOOCT. 22, 2014

WASHINGTON — Four former Blackwater Worldwide security contractors were convicted Wednesday on charges stemming from a deadly 2007 shooting in Iraq.

Jurors found one defendant guilty of murder and three others of manslaughter and weapons charges, roundly asserting that the shooting was criminal. The defendants showed little emotion as the lengthy verdict was read.

Seventeen Iraqis died when gunfire erupted in the crowded Nisour Square in Baghdad. The shooting inflamed anti-American sentiment abroad and helped solidify the notion that Blackwater, America’s largest security contractor in Iraq, was reckless and unaccountable.

The former contractors said that they were ambushed by insurgents, and that civilian deaths were the unfortunate, unintended consequences of urban warfare.

The defendants were Blackwater guards. One of them, Nicholas A. Slatten, who the government said fired the shots, was convicted of murder. The others — Dustin L. Heard, Evan S. Liberty and Paul A. Slough — received manslaughter and firearm convictions. The three men avoided murder charges after prosecutors missed a deadline and let the statute of limitations expire for all other charges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/23/us...dict.html?_r=0

MSRT1 22 October 2014 13:28

Beat me by 2 minutes...I just read this.

As one of the many instructors out there, I can confirm that the quality of people being sent over got less and less as time went on....

iraqgunz 22 October 2014 15:03

Instructors out where? Did you teach at Moyock?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSRT1 (Post 1058431456)
Beat me by 2 minutes...I just read this.

As one of the many instructors out there, I can confirm that the quality of people being sent over got less and less as time went on....


MSRT1 22 October 2014 15:04

Yes I did.

Silverbullet 22 October 2014 17:41

Yet never on the program?

nofear 22 October 2014 18:41

I wasn't there. I never worked for that company. But my 2 cents...

With the events leading up to the shooting, the lack of adequate investigation, (taking statements is not "investigating"), and the exculpatory evidence available, I am amazed at the guilty verdicts.

I'm not saying they are innocent. I'm not saying they are guilty. I'm saying that there was not sufficient evidence to arrive at a "beyond reasonable doubt" verdict.

And I have been saying for years that the tactics and immediate media claims used for this incident are almost exactly the same as those that had a USMC SOF unit kicked out of Afghanistan earlier that same year, from an incident near JBad.


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