SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network

SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network (http://www.socnet.com/index.php)
-   Professional Development and Education (http://www.socnet.com/forumdisplay.php?f=276)
-   -   BS/BA in Criminal Justice or something else? (http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=130933)

Fu King Lawyer 18 October 2017 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kip (Post 1058679310)
I have aspirations of going federal, but I figured staying local for 2 or 3 years would help as far as experience went.

That is a great goal, and the benefits in federal law enforcement jobs can't be overstated. However, as others noted, be careful and research each job before you go after it. Some agencies are wonderful employment, others are paper monsters. There are fantastic federal GS-1811 jobs where you are an actual detective, chasing bad guys and doing good things. There are positions (one of which I recall was called something like high country ranger) where you were receiving federal pay, riding out on a horse and enforcing the law. Some of them came thru in-service while I was at FLETC and talked about bringing along fishing gear and living off the land while working. What a job! Best of luck.
fkl

Macka 18 October 2017 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fu King Lawyer (Post 1058679485)
That is a great goal, and the benefits in federal law enforcement jobs can't be overstated. However, as others noted, be careful and research each job before you go after it. Some agencies are wonderful employment, others are paper monsters. There are fantastic federal GS-1811 jobs where you are an actual detective, chasing bad guys and doing good things. There are positions (one of which I recall was called something like high country ranger) where you were receiving federal pay, riding out on a horse and enforcing the law. Some of them came thru in-service while I was at FLETC and talked about bringing along fishing gear and living off the land while working. What a job! Best of luck.
fkl

There are boot beat cops in my department that have more day to day discretion than most FBI agents. I remembered being bewildered the first time I was out with the FBI and there was clear grounds to make an arrest and they had to call a AUSA to get the okay when most beat cops in my PD would have scooped the guy.

I'd really research any federal agency before signing on to be sure you know what you're getting yourself into.

Fu King Lawyer 18 October 2017 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macka (Post 1058679493)
There are boot beat cops in my department that have more day to day discretion than most FBI agents. I remembered being bewildered the first time I was out with the FBI and there was clear grounds to make an arrest and they had to call a AUSA to get the okay when most beat cops in my PD would have scooped the guy.

I'd really research any federal agency before signing on to be sure you know what you're getting yourself into.

My final gig before retirement was with a state crime bureau that opted for no probable cause arrests unless someone was in danger of bodily harm. Many years ago I spent time as a prosecuting attorney dealing with all of the arrests you mention. No qualms with what you are saying, but there are reasons both policies are there. In fact, in the federal government, there are US Attorneys more willing to pursue cases than those in other Districts.

I concur that Kip needs to research any agency (in fact, local, county, state, or federal) before signing. I've served in both good and bad, good is a lot more enjoyable.

v/r
fkl

redneck 18 October 2017 22:45

http://mellenpress.com/book/The-Crim...d-States/6556/

One page blurb on the detective agencies of the military.

I'm guessing that you have a squeaky clean background. The background checks for really good federal jobs will end up finding stuff about you that you didn't even know.

Whitebean54 18 October 2017 23:27

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fu King Lawyer (Post 1058679511)

I concur that Kip needs to research any agency (in fact, local, county, state, or federal) before signing. I've served in both good and bad, good is a lot more enjoyable.

v/r
fkl

This times a million..... My current gig is a paper producing nightmare but I can also go from playing the "meow game" with someone not wearing a seat belt to doing 140mph into an active shooter/manhunt.

My previous fed gig was laid back and paid better with oppurtunities to deploy to various countries. No take home vehicle,so when I was off I was actually off and didn't have to tell the neighbors shit about what I did. As opposed to waiting for the no/no go on a high risk warrant while trying to eat dinner after being awake 30 hours. Sleep and shift work.... Not a harmonies relationship.

I have a bullshit magnet parked in the driveway and every ass clown in my neighborhood wants me to fix a ticket or ask me about a crash they were in. Or tell you about all of the strange vehicles that passed through the neighborhood.

Pros and cons.... Look at ALL the pros and cons you can. Some pros and cons won't be visble to you or you won't fully understand them until you're on the other side of the table. I didn't realize JUST HOW MUCH FUCKING PAPERWORK GOES INTO A DAY. I was told that the AO I wanted to work was busier than any two other others combined. Fucking understatement. But it beats "laid back" anyday.

What are you looking to do longterm?
Fed 1811? Be careful who you tell that to. Some agencies will not fool with training you if you plan on rolling out.

Office view isnt too bad either.

Kip 19 October 2017 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by redneck (Post 1058679523)
I'm guessing that you have a squeaky clean background. The background checks for really good federal jobs will end up finding stuff about you that you didn't even know.

Yea, my background is very, very clean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitebean54 (Post 1058679525)
What are you looking to do longterm?
Fed 1811? Be careful who you tell that to. Some agencies will not fool with training you if you plan on rolling out.

Long-term, yes, Fed LE. I know a guy who works for US Customs(ICE now, IIRC) and has been there for 20+ years, and he is the one who originally turned me onto fed LE.

With regards to learning the pros/cons of my local LEAs, I'm actually just starting an internship with my local sheriff's office, of Hurricane Irma fame.

My local PD is the one that was involved in the sex scandal.

So, yea...

cg4139 20 October 2017 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kip (Post 1058679666)
Yea, my background is very, very clean.



Long-term, yes, Fed LE. I know a guy who works for US Customs(ICE now, IIRC) and has been there for 20+ years, and he is the one who originally turned me onto fed LE.

With regards to learning the pros/cons of my local LEAs, I'm actually just starting an internship with my local sheriff's office, of Hurricane Irma fame.

My local PD is the one that was involved in the sex scandal.

So, yea...


Wanting to start with local to go FED-

I think you should look into State Agencies, as it is a bit of the best of both worlds. Do your time, and can try out for SWAT, CID, Aviation- you get to stay in one state as opposed to moving every few years.

In my agency, I've heard being a state guy on a FED detail is the way to go. This guy does none of the paperwork on either end, but gets to do all the chasing bad guys.

I am biased though, and have only worked for a State agency.

Gray Rhyno 20 October 2017 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kip (Post 1058679666)
Long-term, yes, Fed LE. I know a guy who works for US Customs(ICE now, IIRC) and has been there for 20+ years, and he is the one who originally turned me onto fed LE.

Your mileage may vary, and there are tons of FBI agents who don't fit this generalization...

The FBI has an "ideal" candidate in mind when they are selecting candidates for new agent training. That ideal candidate is a 32 YO disabled Asian veteran female with a graduate degree in law, science, or accounting, who speaks Russian, Farsi, or another exotic and needed language, with law enforcement experience, who can also run like the wind and do 100 pull ups. While there are minimum standards, the closer you can get to the ideal candidate, the better.

My bachelors and masters degrees are both in history, but just for fun I'm working on an AAS in police science right now. ;)

I recommend that you get a degree in law, accounting, or a hard science, and follow it up with real world experience.

Whitebean54 21 October 2017 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by cg4139 (Post 1058679881)
Wanting to start with local to go FED-

I think you should look into State Agencies, as it is a bit of the best of both worlds. Do your time, and can try out for SWAT, CID, Aviation- you get to stay in one state as opposed to moving every few years.

In my agency, I've heard being a state guy on a FED detail is the way to go. This guy does none of the paperwork on either end, but gets to do all the chasing bad guys.

I am biased though, and have only worked for a State agency.

Kip,
Correct me if I'm wrong, you're in Florida? Florida Highway Patrol and Florida Bureau of Investigations would t be bad pathways.

Regarding what cg4139 said, some of the happiest guys are state dudes that are on a Fed Task Force. Like so happy it should be illegal :biggrin:

Fu King Lawyer 21 October 2017 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitebean54 (Post 1058680022)
Kip,
Correct me if I'm wrong, you're in Florida? Florida Highway Patrol and Florida Bureau of Investigations would t be bad pathways.

said, some of the happiest guys are state dudes

I retired as an Inspector with "Florida Department of Law Enforcement" in 2016. I was in heaven from 2012 when I retired from DHS and FDLE asked if I would like to come back "home" until I hung it up in 2016. I was with them before 9/11 and they kept my position until I came home. They are a great place, and as close to family as one would find in the military.
But Kip will need 5 years law enforcement experience to be considered for a special agent positon.
fkl

Kip 21 October 2017 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitebean54 (Post 1058680022)
Kip,
Correct me if I'm wrong, you're in Florida? Florida Highway Patrol and Florida Bureau of Investigations would t be bad pathways.

Regarding what cg4139 said, some of the happiest guys are state dudes that are on a Fed Task Force. Like so happy it should be illegal :biggrin:

Yes, I'm in Florida.

I don't know much about the Florida Department of Law Enforcement(beyond a dramatized TV show), but a recruiter for FHP spoke at my college not long ago. I'll have to look into both a bit more.

Kip 19 July 2018 18:00

Update
 
Attempted to get into the police academy at the college I go to.

Was denied because I showed deception during the poly for the question, "Are you withholding any information about your involvement with illegal drugs?".

Asked if I could retake the poly, was told it wouldn't matter because they still had the one that showed deception. Asked if there was an appeals process, was told it didn't matter because the selection center coordinator had spoken to the academy director before calling me and the director agreed with the selection center dude.

For the record, I've never done illegal drugs. Period.

So now I'm looking into other police academies in Florida, while taking a couple classes so I can knock out my AS.

Mars 19 July 2018 18:03

Was it an outside agency conducting the polygraph? Is there a need for officers within that department but a lack of funding that would allow you to be hired? Questions may seem odd, but there is a reason for asking them.

CAP MARINE 19 July 2018 18:29

AA-PS/BA-CJ

Kip 19 July 2018 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agoge (Post 1058737797)
Was it an outside agency conducting the polygraph? Is there a need for officers within that department but a lack of funding that would allow you to be hired? Questions may seem odd, but there is a reason for asking them.

It was an outside agency conducting the poly. They have been contracted by the college to conduct their polygraphs for entrance into the academy.

This academy isn't affiliated with a PD/SO, it is run by my local college. I was paying my own way through, but you were able to be sponsored by an agency if you went through that particular agency's hiring process.

At the end of this academy, you take the test to be certified by the state as a LEO. If you're not sponsored by an agency then it is up to you to find a job.

Dino0311 19 July 2018 20:57

Don't get a CJ degree unless it will mean money in your check. Get something you can use for a real job if law enforcement falls through.

I strongly second the recommendation for accounting or IT. I also suck at math and was an accounting major before becoming a cop. Accounting isn't math, exactly. It's actually a whole bunch of principles and the math is easy. Accounting "math" makes sense and is very easy to keep straight. It's not abstract at all.

GPC 20 July 2018 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kip (Post 1058737796)
Attempted to get into the police academy at the college I go to.

Was denied because I showed deception during the poly for the question, "Are you withholding any information about your involvement with illegal drugs?".

Asked if I could retake the poly, was told it wouldn't matter because they still had the one that showed deception. Asked if there was an appeals process, was told it didn't matter because the selection center coordinator had spoken to the academy director before calling me and the director agreed with the selection center dude.

For the record, I've never done illegal drugs. Period.

So now I'm looking into other police academies in Florida, while taking a couple classes so I can knock out my AS.

You can always go corrections. If you can count you can be a CO. ;)

osubuckeye762 20 July 2018 07:46

Kip:

It sucks but don't let it derail you.
I was dinged twice for the same question and I have never done drugs in my life.

If I was in Florida I would definitely look at the State Agencies. I have always heard good things about FHP. The only major knock I have heard is regarding their pay.

If my mom and dad sell the house in Ohio and move to their place in Florida full time, I will be heading south soon after since my whole family will be there. I will definitely be looking at FHP, Ocala, and FDLE.

Also another avenue is Probation and Parole. I interviewed with them a few months back and were impressed with what they had to offer. If you are picked up, you are required to go to a 13 week academy in Tallahassee.

Fu King Lawyer 20 July 2018 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kip (Post 1058737796)
Attempted to get into the police academy at the college I go to.

Was denied because I showed deception during the poly for the question, "Are you withholding any information about your involvement with illegal drugs?".

Asked if I could retake the poly, was told it wouldn't matter because they still had the one that showed deception. Asked if there was an appeals process, was told it didn't matter because the selection center coordinator had spoken to the academy director before calling me and the director agreed with the selection center dude.

For the record, I've never done illegal drugs. Period.

So now I'm looking into other police academies in Florida, while taking a couple classes so I can knock out my AS.

Kip,

A couple of suggestions -

Have you filed a Public Records Request (Chpt 119 F.S.) for a copy of the polygraph materials - with both the college/academy as well as with the contracting agency who performed the poly exam? A request for everything including the charts, audio/visual recordings, poly questions, statements, reports, test charts, any "scoring" done by the examiner, examiner's conclusions, notes, everything related to your exam? Normally, there is a quality control review of exams and any reviews can be requested. Don't forget that the examiner may have taken stuff back to his agency that he didn't provide to the school so one simple request to the school may not get you everything.

Once you have the materials, you might need to pay for an independent polygrapher to review what you find - but in doing so, you will get an idea of what you are up against. If you do get an independent reviewer to assess, you may find that your test was not correctly scored, or that with a few follow-up questions, the reviewer can retest you and remove any signs of deception. Look carefully and see if the examiner commented on any post exam admissions or confession.

Another step towards resolution is to download a copy of the Selection Center's Policy Letter. Compare what they are supposed to do and what they did. Did they do all of this by the provisions of the policy? Do you have any appeals that they haven't provided you?

Not all Florida academies require a polygraph and leave that step up to the hiring agency after graduation. So you may be able to get the training elsewhere in Florida. But leaving that polygraph out there uncontested/uncorrected will probably play hell with your eventual hiring. If you were fingerprinted during your application, that inquiry is already on file and any background investigator that does the job, will go back to the ORI on the inquiry and find out what happened.

PM me if you want to talk.

v/r
fkl

Sharky 20 July 2018 10:33

Polygraphs are such a load of bullshit, and anyone who has seen what's behind that particular curtain knows it. There is a very good reason that they are not admissible in court.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:21.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved