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-   -   for the BTDTS (http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=13653)

oryely 1 March 2002 00:10

for the BTDTS
 
To the BTDTS
I am a 21 year old college student that has been investigating the Army. My recruiters have been trying to get me to go 18x. I am very interested in the program, and I feel I have researched SF as best I can with out ever being there. My only problem with the program is this: I know SF babies have existed in some variety since the birth of SF, however for the last 20 years? Sf have recruited NCO with Army values already instilled.
My question for all of you is this, Having never been in the Army, I fear that my fascination with SF is idealistic, much like some of the High school kids I see post on here. did any of you feel similar before SFAS or even joining the Army? Do you think that the program bring the new recruits up to speed to adequately preform in SFAS?
I know some of this over laps previous posts,
but any help is greatly appreciated. In addition I would like to thank all of those in the know for all their time answering questions for those of us who are not.
Thank You
David

Battboy From Hell 1 March 2002 19:20

Quote:

Do you think that the program bring the new recruits up to speed to adequately preform in SFAS?
Someone thought it would work, otherwise they wouldn't have put it in place.

My opinion:

I think it's fucking stupid. I think the military should have never been downsized to the point where they'll take civilians straight out of the civi world and throw them into something that until just recently required you to be E-4 with a little tiime in the Army.

Thank YOU Clinton.... oops... I mean FUCK YOU, Clinton.

There's my opinion.

If you wanna try it, then try it. There are those who DO and those who ASK and WONDER. Which one are you?

******

Stampee 1 March 2002 20:42

C'mon ******...let us know how you really feel. Don't hold back. :D

Dan

Cicero 1 March 2002 23:48

Honestly, I don't think it will work as well as the Army thinks it will. Sure, it sounds attractive, especially to High Schoolers like me, but think of the primary missions of the SF: to educate foreign soldiers in small-unit tactics, demolitions, combat medicine, etc. Now, you're telling me that someone just entering the Army should have the same chance to teach these things as someone like a Ranger or Airborne soldier, someone who's done the stuff for at least a couple years? In essence, the majority of 18x'ers who make it through will only be a step or two up from those they'll be training.

BTW, I should add that I haven't BTDT, so maybe my comments are totally worthless in comparison to those who have BTDT. Just my opinion.

Chris Chong 2 March 2002 01:19

???
 
I don't think that will be true. This new option will attract those that are interested in SF, and who are motivated and intelligent. SFAS will weed out the ones not cut out for it and the ones left are the ones that are not only phycically tough, but intelligent enough to learn a variety of skills. And its not like they are SF qualified right out of basic, they still have at least two years of demanding training. After those two years, I think they will be more than just a step or two above, they'll part of the elite.
SF can train foreign soldeirs of all skill levels, what makes you think they can't train motivated and intelligent recruits? I'm not military, and I'm still a young guy, but I feel that this program will suceed.

sniper14 2 March 2002 05:34

Re: ???
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Chong
SF can train foreign soldeirs of all skill levels, what makes you think they can't train motivated and intelligent recruits?
Excellent point Chris.

And hey everybody, don't forget, 18X is also for PRIOR SERVICE bubbas, too! You know, jarheads like me! As it stands today, I know two former marine snipers who are doing this program and a former navy EOD diver. Let's be optimistic, if the army ends up with the BEST NPS guys, and yes, they're out there, and ends up with some locked on/squared away PS guys, that's a pretty good deal I think for everyone. So look at the positive side of this and be optimistic. That's just me, though.

LeCarre 2 March 2002 09:25

I know this subject has been debated to death, but consider the following scenario:

Take an average guy straight out of college, put him through an Army leadership school for 12 weeks and voila, he's not only a member of the armed forces, but he's LEADING a platoon! How weird does that sound?

Is it all that unreasonable to think that 18x's couldn't catch on like a lot of our commissioned officers? I always thought it was crazy to think that I could go through two years of ROTC and, theoretically, be a leader of men who'd been in for 4-6 years. Hell, within three years, that same guy will be an O3 and in charge of a helluva lot more than a platoon!

It's worked before and it will work again. The PS guys will always have a leg up on the babies, but the good babies will rise to the occasion. The system has been around a helluva lot longer than me, so I have to have faith in the system.

Para 2 March 2002 11:24

Quote:

Originally posted by LeCarre
Is it all that unreasonable to think that 18x's couldn't catch on like a lot of our commissioned officers?
ROTFLMMFAO.......Now there is a damn funny ass statement. Oh, I am sure they will catch on like a 2LT, but there in is the problem. The only Junior Officers I ever came to respect where PS enlisted themselves (maybe I just haven't seen enough of them). A good Junior Officer gives directives to the NCO's and lets them run the show. "SSG, take your squad and assualt that bunker."

"Yes Sir." and the bunker is taken.

Stampee 2 March 2002 14:49

LeCarre...you're going Rep63 right? I just signed up a week ago, and I realized something a while back. No one is going to respect me, my abilities or what I have to offer until I prove it time and time again to their faces. No matter where I've been, what I've done, what I say...I AM SHIT. In fact lower than shit. And that's ok. I'm going to try and expect it.

I don't ship out until Oct. and I have some time to hang out with a some BTDT's. I only hope that I can keep my mouth shut, open my ears and learn something so I can try to keep up with the BTDT's that I'm going to encounter once the training starts.

I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but a lesson we could probably use is (and I don't want to learn this the hard way) : Do not rant about how special we are, what we've done that will help us be prepared, how much we know because we went to college or anything like that. We keep our pie hole shut, our eyes wide open and our motivation very high. Cuz, I have a feeling were going to get smoked time and time again, and we'd better be prepared to deal with it and keep on going with all we've got.

Like I said, probably preaching to the choir.

Dan

Greenhat 2 March 2002 23:23

Here's the deal. It's simple. No matter who you are, each new assignment means proving yourself again, earning respect again. That's the way it works, regardless of who you are or what you've done. How tough it is varies, the task itself doesn't.

LeCarre 3 March 2002 09:27

Stampee, you're absolutely right about keeping our intentions and orders to ourselves. Like anything in life, our actions will speak volumes as to who we are and what we're made of. Personally, I'll take any PT smokings that come down the pike--I'll need them to maintain my fitness level.

How about that pipeline? I just hope that we have enough time during Airborne, PLDC, and pre Selection to do our own PT. I'll enter being able to max the PLDC and simply wish to maintain. If I can blow the standards out even further by the time I get to SFAS, then all the better.

BTW, I start at the end of May. Private message me so we can dialogue more on the topic instead of taking up valuable space on the boards.

rgrjoe175 3 March 2002 10:34

I think that anyone that goes SF should have at least 3 years active service in a airborne unit.... any person that calls a SF soldier a "Green Beret" should be castrated... my personal opinion.... it is just a fucking hat....dont call my buds a fucking hat...

God knows it is easier to kick the fucking door down than teach some dumbass how to kick the door down......SF has my upmost respect...

Regards,

Joe
1/75 80-83
6-81

Ace 3 March 2002 16:00

Quote:

Originally posted by LeCarre
I'll enter being able to max the PLDC and simply wish to maintain.
Did you mean APFT?

Battboy From Hell 3 March 2002 17:48

My thought is this:

Everyone I got to selection with is my peer. Officers, NCOs from legland, 82nd boys, Battboys, RI's... whoever. Ok FINE. I have no problem with that. Everyone who's been in the army a while is my peer as am I their peer.

Some fucking civilian with no prior military experience right out of basic training is not my fucking peer. In SUT I am not going to carry the fucking load for some shithead civilian who's falling out because he's never done the shit before. First time I catch him sleeping during a patrol or in an ORP, I'm likely to want to strangle him.

You fucking kiddy civilians better fucking get your shit in order if you plan on being in the same fucking AO as me. When I do something I do it to 1). Survive, 2). Keep my buddies alive 3). Suceed. You no cut the fucking mustard, I'll fucking blanket party your ass. Especially you little arrogant bastards who think you can be high speed off fucking desire alone. Bullshit.

Special Forces is a pretty fucking big deal. They may be hurting for people, but betcha they'll be damned if they'll take shitheads. Ask my buddy who graduated the last SFAS, how many of them basic training recruits made it? Not many.... if any at all.

Fucking Chairborne Armchair Special Forces candidates can shut the fuck up. I'm sick of hearing how you little fuckers think you can do everything the same as the rest of us who've done shit before. Hell maybe they wont fucking select me either.... who knows.... but one thing is for sure, you little bastards better start doing more fucking roadmarching and less justifying why you should be in SF.

******

Battboy From Hell 3 March 2002 17:51

And I better not hear anymore fucking BenningBound stories about running 7 miles a day with a fucking 75 lb ruck either. Speaking of, he's been awefully quiet.... someone should call Sand Hill and check up on our little friend Greg Burns....



******

Battboy From Hell 3 March 2002 17:53

Quote:

If I can blow the standards out even further by the time I get to SFAS, then all the better.

How you gonna prep for the trek? You even know what the trek is?

Para 3 March 2002 18:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Battboy From Hell
How you gonna prep for the trek? You even know what the trek is?
LMMFAO

Won't being able to do 100 pushups and 100 sit ups in 2 minutes help? How about running 5 miles in 35 minutes? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Is that the definition of a rude awakening?

sniper14 3 March 2002 18:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Battboy From Hell



How you gonna prep for the trek? You even know what the trek is?

Actually he does know what the trek is because he's with 20th group and has been pretty well briefed on what to expect at SFAS. Their team (i.e. the training team) sergeant (tabbed) has them on a pretty rigorous training plan that includes a lot of land nav.

I was with their team and I know LeCarre personally, he's a good fucker, and I vouch for him - so lay off. Yeah, he's motivated as hell, and last I checked that's a good thing to have in this line of work! Also, he ain't some snot-nose, zit-popping kid out of high school. Maybe he isn't a prior but he will be bringing some excellent skills and knowledge to the table.

Some of you guys need to keep your egos in check.

Battboy From Hell 3 March 2002 19:02

Quote:

Some of you guys need to keep your egos in check.
First off the first two posts were pretty fucking ambiguous. That's NOT DIRECTLY targetted towards anyone. I do that on purpose.

Second off, the third post, which contained a "quote" was a simple question, and correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't VERY offensive.... Gee, I do that on purpose too.

If you can vouch for him, cool. I know who Stampee is, and thus far I like him. I find it pretty fucking funny though you're pulling the "holier than thou" with the ego remark.

There's a big fucking difference between 18yr old snuffy and 27 yr old man with ten years out of high school, and if you've read any of my prior posts you realize I advocate the older wiser candidate.

Quote:

Their team (i.e. the training team) sergeant (tabbed)
I hope he tabbed. Otherwise the training wouldn't hold much value in the eyes of the trainees.


My two cents, I spent the rest on beer.
******

oryely 3 March 2002 19:10

To everyone who has posted on me questions

Thank you all for your insight. My intent on my post was to get a wider opinion of the program. all of you helped a great deal. My recruiters only blow smoke, everything i want hear. I appreciate all of your opinions, objections, and critism
Thanks again
David


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