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-   -   Multiple Officers shot in Philadelphia (http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=135043)

usmc_3m 14 August 2019 18:54

Multiple Officers shot in Philadelphia
 
Conflicting reports on number of and severity of injuries. Still considered an active incident. Initial reports say it was the result of serving a drug warrant in north Philly area.

Prayers for a quick resolution and no major injuries to the officers.

wildman43 14 August 2019 19:13

5 LEO's taken to hospital for gun shot's injury's One different LEO was injured in car accident on the way to the active incident.

Top0321 14 August 2019 22:34

Peaceful residents of Philly welcoming the police to keep their neighborhood safe.
https://twitter.com/Breaking911/stat...5-DoE3sVSIIQjY

edd1e22 14 August 2019 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by WGH0922 (Post 1058810569)
Peaceful residents of Philly welcoming the police to keep their neighborhood safe.

Philly seriously needs some depolicing. Let them sort it out themselves

Fu King Lawyer 15 August 2019 09:24

The story served its purpose for a day and it won't be on the front pages for very long. Watching this morning, TV reported the subject is in custody, is a convicted felon with prior firearms charges. Nothing "racist" to allege against the police. Press will quickly move on to their next chance at gun control.

grog18b 15 August 2019 11:33

https://mashable.com/2016/01/10/1985-move-bombing

The last time PSP had to handle a problem in Philly... 3 blocks destroyed later...

Que the Ride of the Valkyries...

DvlDoc8404 17 August 2019 07:25

Stand by for a fight between the DA and the USAO. There have been some strong words in the wake of the incident.

And yes, those of us who remember Osage Avenue were wondering how this was gonna end lol. But dude came out without anymore cops getting hurt, so that’s the most important result.

Macka 17 August 2019 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DvlDoc8404 (Post 1058810924)
Stand by for a fight between the DA and the USAO. There have been some strong words in the wake of the incident.

And yes, those of us who remember Osage Avenue were wondering how this was gonna end lol. But dude came out without anymore cops getting hurt, so that’s the most important result.

The Philly DA reportedly has been putting people charged with gun offenses on diversion programs. Why have gun laws?

grog18b 17 August 2019 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macka (Post 1058810940)
The Philly DA reportedly has been putting people charged with gun offenses on diversion programs. Why have gun laws?

Because then they can point to all those gun laws and say "see those gun laws are too weak, we need tougher gun laws because these don't work..."

The thing is, all these shitbags who are out on the street doing this crap with guns are not normal gun owners, they are career criminals. The responsibility for all these crimes rests squarely on the shoulders of DA's like this, and Judges who release these shits back into society knowing full well that the carnage will continue because there is no such thing as rehabilitation for a career criminal.

The solution is simple. Career felon? More than three violent felonies? You are taken out back of the prison, and run through a wood chipper. No more career criminal. No more over crowded prisons, no more taxpayer dollars spent on a wasted POS. No more clogged court system. ...and a hell of a lot less career shitbags running around free, plus the incentive for said shitbags to cease their career shitbaggery.

I find it amazing that we live in a society that values the lives of these shitheads more than that of an unborn child.

Gray Rhyno 17 August 2019 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by grog18b (Post 1058810949)
The solution is simple. Career felon? More than three violent felonies? You are taken out back of the prison, and run through a wood chipper. No more career criminal. No more over crowded prisons, no more taxpayer dollars spent on a wasted POS. No more clogged court system. ...and a hell of a lot less career shitbags running around free, plus the incentive for said shitbags to cease their career shitbaggery.

I get very frustrated by liberals who claim "it's more expensive to execute a criminal than it is to incarcerate them for life" and use that as a reason to be anti-death penalty. Because the death penalty does reduce crime. Maybe just by one asshole, but now that asshole is incapable of ever commiting another crime.

Anyway, the only reason the death penalty is more expensive than life in prison is because the liberals have made the appeals process so laborious and the lawyers charge the public treasury so much money to defend these shitheads. If we had a straight-forward, simple to understand, and lawyer-free procedure to execute lifelong felons, the death penalty would be significantly cheaper. :mad:

leopardprey 18 August 2019 08:37

In a perfect world........

Our tolerance has gone too far.

GPC 18 August 2019 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by leopardprey (Post 1058811049)
In a perfect world........

Our tolerance has gone too far.

Just think in a few more years we'll have No Go zones like Europe.

Polypro 18 August 2019 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by grog18b (Post 1058810949)
Because then they can point to all those gun laws and say "see those gun laws are too weak, we need tougher gun laws because these don't work..."

The thing is, all these shitbags who are out on the street doing this crap with guns are not normal gun owners, they are career criminals.

Yup. When you take suicides and any gang related shootings out of the equation - the murders from firearms plummets.

When you finally decide you are going to commit suicide, you will do it no matter what - go look at the UK - they prefer hanging themselves. Suicide has got to be the biggest bogus anti-gun tactic on the planet.

From the remaining murders - various studies put "scumbag" initiated murder at 50-80% of the rest.

"Crazy middle class white guy that snaps" murder is so friggen low - but gets all the headlines from the people that want to impose their MORAL beliefs on the LEGAL system.

redhawk 18 August 2019 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macka (Post 1058810940)
The Philly DA reportedly has been putting people charged with gun offenses on diversion programs.

Not sure why this would be a problem. Diversion allows the system to separate the insane and drug dealers from the people who just fucked up. Pennsylvania’s gun laws are incoherent and lots of normal, “law abiding” people get put through the ringer for simply not knowing the technical (bullshit) aspects of 6106. And, for the 18-20 year olds with no record who get caught with a Glock... well, a lot of them are protecting themselves from actually dangerous people. I’d rather not see those adult citizens labeled felons and stripped of their 2nd Amd. rights for simply wanting to exercise their 2nd Amd. right.

grog18b 18 August 2019 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhawk (Post 1058811060)
Pennsylvania’s gun laws are incoherent and lots of normal, “law abiding” people get put through the ringer for simply not knowing the technical (bullshit) aspects of 6106. And, for the 18-20 year olds with no record who get caught with a Glock... well, a lot of them are protecting themselves from actually dangerous people. I’d rather not see those adult citizens labeled felons and stripped of their 2nd Amd. rights for simply wanting to exercise their 2nd Amd. right.

Your post is incorrect. I'm not sure where you get your information from, but most people I know personally because I arrested them, and charged with violations of PA gun laws I also charged with the original crimes, which are plead down to gun law violations because of plea deals reached to try to do exactly what you want in your post, which is to not ruin someone's life with first offense armed robbery or aggravated assault charge, and plead to a lesser non violent offense. None of them were "normal law abiding people".

For the record, I never agreed to any of those "deals", and thought they were, as you put it, bullshit.

Macka 18 August 2019 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhawk (Post 1058811060)
Not sure why this would be a problem. Diversion allows the system to separate the insane and drug dealers from the people who just fucked up. Pennsylvania’s gun laws are incoherent and lots of normal, “law abiding” people get put through the ringer for simply not knowing the technical (bullshit) aspects of 6106. And, for the 18-20 year olds with no record who get caught with a Glock... well, a lot of them are protecting themselves from actually dangerous people. I’d rather not see those adult citizens labeled felons and stripped of their 2nd Amd. rights for simply wanting to exercise their 2nd Amd. right.

I have a little difficulty when politicians talk about enacting more laws when they don't enforce the one's we have.

How many people in Philly are wrapped up in the examples you used? It is my experience that everyone has a reason for what they were doing when arrested.

Maybe the people in Philly should listen to this guy.....

edd1e22 18 August 2019 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno (Post 1058810951)
I get very frustrated by liberals who claim "it's more expensive to execute a criminal than it is to incarcerate them for life" and use that as a reason to be anti-death penalty. Because the death penalty does reduce crime. Maybe just by one asshole, but now that asshole is incapable of ever commiting another crime.

Anyway, the only reason the death penalty is more expensive than life in prison is because the liberals have made the appeals process so laborious and the lawyers charge the public treasury so much money to defend these shitheads. If we had a straight-forward, simple to understand, and lawyer-free procedure to execute lifelong felons, the death penalty would be significantly cheaper. :mad:

Our justice system is far from perfect and I can think of many individuals who've been convicted of capital crimes who were later exonerated.

Dino0311 19 August 2019 00:50

I'm against the death penalty. I have personally seen bad eyewitness identifications and have arrested somebody for a rape that I was never sure he actually committed. People lie, people are wrong, people are dumb.

Fu King Lawyer 19 August 2019 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by edd1e22 (Post 1058811131)
Our justice system is far from perfect and I can think of many individuals who've been convicted of capital crimes who were later exonerated.

I've been involved in the (multiple) appeals for many defendants sentenced in capital cases, and more than a dozen of my cases have gone thru to execution of sentence. This is only anecdotal, but not a one of my cases went to the chamber with the condemned claiming innocence. In fact, most all were very candid that last few hours when the chance of a stay, clemency, or further appeal evaporated. However, once the curtain went up, they weren't as forthcoming with the witnesses/victim's families as they were with us (and DoC staff) before the actual execution protocols commenced. I'm sure innocents have been condemned, but as time went by there are a whole bunch of organizations, beyond public defenders, trying to block every death sentence, if for no other reason than they are opposed to it. They use techniques to include independent DNA testing and explore every possible angle. Public defenders offices have a core of professionals with added expertise who represent the death-penalty indigent, with others such as Project Innocence and major law firms doing pro bono work, that every angle is explored. One innocent being executed is one to many. However, I would venture that it is much more likely that a guilty person "walks" on the charge, as opposed to the opposite.

wildman43 19 August 2019 15:15

Watching the news awhile back DNA testing provide someone who had been in jail for about 20 years innocent.

Question FKL, could this individual get money for the time spent in prison, from the state or Feds?

Fu King Lawyer 19 August 2019 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildman43 (Post 1058811205)

Question FKL, could this individual get money for the time spent in prison, from the state or Feds?

@wildman43,
Possibly. Governments enjoy something called "sovereign immunity" where they don't have to pay routine torts, but most waive it in appropriate cases under set conditions and will pay damages. Feds have something called the "Federal Tort Claims Act". Several states have either a similar claims procedure or the legislature passes and the governor signs "private bills" authorizing compensation.
Depending on the state, YMMV. v/r fkl

bobmueller 19 August 2019 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildman43 (Post 1058811205)
Question FKL, could this individual get money for the time spent in prison, from the state or Feds?

I'm not FKL, but I've been following innocence stuff for several years. Some states give money outright; others require a special act of the state legislature.

In the states that do give money, some give a flat amount, no matter how long you were stuck in there. Texas gives you 80k/year. California gives you $140/day of wrongful incarceration. DC actually includes an amount for time spent on parole/probation/SO status. Maryland only pays "actual damages." Overview at the Innocence Project.

Fu King Lawyer 19 August 2019 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobmueller (Post 1058811221)
I'm not FKL, but I've been following innocence stuff for several years. Some states give money outright; others require a special act of the state legislature.

In the states that do give money, some give a flat amount, no matter how long you were stuck in there. Texas gives you 80k/year. California gives you $140/day of wrongful incarceration. DC actually includes an amount for time spent on parole/probation/SO status. Maryland only pays "actual damages." Overview at the Innocence Project.

Well done, Brother. With a clear conscience I'll start planning another vacation to Asia knowing that SOCNET is in good hands. Bravo Zulu. v/r fkl

EchoFiveMike 19 August 2019 19:18

Holding "the taxpayers" accountable for individual mistakes and/or deliberate malfeasance is completely pointless, if not deliberately malevolent. "The Taxpayer" has absolutely no control over the individuals involved, in most cases by design. Bring criminal charges vs individuals, only.

The Innocence people here in Chitcago out of NW University have been caught, repeatedly, committing bribery, witness tampering and other fuckery. Everyone "advocating" for the guilty has an angle, the defense attorneys at least are honest and open about theirs, to their credit.

Yes, I know Chicago is basically the perfect example of every type and level of corruption and scheme to fleece the taxpayer. All that said, I don't see the utility of the DP as currently used. It should be to eliminate repeat offenders, for all level of felonious crimes, to include (especially) financial crimes, fraud etc. Getting rid of career criminals would reduce the crime level to a meaningless fraction of the current level.

And that would take away the power from a lot of people, which is why it won't happen. S/F....Ken M

Polypro 20 August 2019 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massgrunt (Post 1058811141)
I'm against the death penalty. I have personally seen bad eyewitness identifications and have arrested somebody for a rape that I was never sure he actually committed. People lie, people are wrong, people are dumb.

F'n 100 - people are so f'n stupid, I'm amazed we're still around - it is truly mind boggling.

Believeraz 20 August 2019 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massgrunt (Post 1058811141)
I'm against the death penalty. I have personally seen bad eyewitness identifications and have arrested somebody for a rape that I was never sure he actually committed. People lie, people are wrong, people are dumb.

Eyewitness identification is a stand-alone standard for probable cause, the legal threshold for an arrest. Based on the incredibly poor history of eyewitness ID, I refuse to use it for PC without additional corroborating evidence. I use an Innocence Project presentation on the topic as well as the Ronald Cotton story as instructional materials when I teach academy legal and continuing ed courses for cops.

I have a solemn responsibility to protect the rights of a defendant as well as to seek justice for my victim in a criminal investigation. Reliance on eyewitness ID as a stand-alone does not adequately meet either of those obligations in my opinion.

redhawk 20 August 2019 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by grog18b (Post 1058811071)
Your post is incorrect.

...which is to not ruin someone's life with first offense armed robbery or aggravated assault charge, and plead to a lesser non violent offense. None of them were "normal law abiding people".

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. Krasner is permitting some gun cases (6106, 6111, etc.) to go to ARD. The only violent gun cases I've heard going to ARD were accidental/negligent shootings and self-defense cases.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Macka (Post 1058811094)
How many people in Philly are wrapped up in the examples you used?

I'm guessing a lot, as I deal with similar cases quite frequently. And, I've talked to numerous cops who openly admit that they've found technical violations of carrying without a license that they've chosen not to charge (which is a good thing, but also the law needs to be changed).
Quote:

Originally Posted by Believeraz (Post 1058811325)
post

Thank you. The procedures have undoubtedly improved, but there's definitely some work to be done.

cj 20 August 2019 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by EchoFiveMike (Post 1058811248)
Everyone "advocating" for the guilty has an angle, the defense attorneys at least are honest and open about theirs, to their credit.

Not true, unless you view constitutional rights as an angle. Did you mean to lump the accused (pre-conviction) into that group?

mb5417 20 August 2019 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhawk (Post 1058811060)
Not sure why this would be a problem. Diversion allows the system to separate the insane and drug dealers from the people who just fucked up. Pennsylvania’s gun laws are incoherent and lots of normal, “law abiding” people get put through the ringer for simply not knowing the technical (bullshit) aspects of 6106. And, for the 18-20 year olds with no record who get caught with a Glock... well, a lot of them are protecting themselves from actually dangerous people. I’d rather not see those adult citizens labeled felons and stripped of their 2nd Amd. rights for simply wanting to exercise their 2nd Amd. right.

The problem is that they are not using it to separate out the drug dealers from the fuck ups. The shooter in this incident had multiple felonies including gun offenses that were diverted, plead down, or dropped completely.

I was doing some research on a new investigation the day this happened, and ran a target's criminal history. He had four prior arrests for gun offenses in Philly. Those charges were eventually dropped. I've seen violent offenders out on bail in NJ for illegal possession of firearms and attempted murder (in the same county where the girl from Philly was locked up for two months (IIRC) for bringing her legal CCW firearm across state lines to the casinos).

They want us to disarm to solve this gun "crisis" while they play lawyer games with the guys who are the actual problem. And as lawyers go, Krasner in Philly is frighteningly pro-criminal.

EchoFiveMike 20 August 2019 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj (Post 1058811358)
Not true, unless you view constitutional rights as an angle. Did you mean to lump the accused (pre-conviction) into that group?

I mean the convicted, especially habitual/career criminals. US society squanders a truly obscene amount of taxpayer resources on parasitic trash shaped like human beings. Sure, I understand an idealistic commitment to keeping the system honest, but that's not what any of this activism is. It's wrecking, in the Russian or Luddite sense of the term. It's an attack on the legitimacy of the system itself. To the point that in many places, it is an illegitimate system. Ie, most urban centers. All these police(and everyone else) are getting shot by multiple repeat felony offenders, "the system" keeps putting back into society. Clearly said system does not function as they supposedly claim it is intended to.

Better to fire everyone, and go back to an elected sheriff and raising a posse, and only punishment for severe crimes is hanging. All this Progressivism has created the opposite of "progress." S/F....Ken M

cj 20 August 2019 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by EchoFiveMike (Post 1058811377)
I mean the convicted, especially habitual/career criminals. US society squanders a truly obscene amount of taxpayer resources on parasitic trash shaped like human beings. Sure, I understand an idealistic commitment to keeping the system honest, but that's not what any of this activism is. It's wrecking, in the Russian or Luddite sense of the term. It's an attack on the legitimacy of the system itself. To the point that in many places, it is an illegitimate system. Ie, most urban centers. All these police(and everyone else) are getting shot by multiple repeat felony offenders, "the system" keeps putting back into society. Clearly said system does not function as they supposedly claim it is intended to.

Ok, I don't disagree with above.

just11b 20 August 2019 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fu King Lawyer (Post 1058811224)
Well done, Brother. With a clear conscience I'll start planning another vacation to Asia knowing that SOCNET is in good hands. Bravo Zulu. v/r fkl

:biggrin:

SN 20 August 2019 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildman43 (Post 1058811205)
Watching the news awhile back DNA testing provide someone who had been in jail for about 20 years innocent.

Question FKL, could this individual get money for the time spent in prison, from the state or Feds?

Texas has a program to pay restitution for those wrongly convicted.


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