Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > The Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 6 March 2012, 08:40
wowzers wowzers is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,003
HR 347

Has anyone read this bill. This link makes it seem fairly benevolent, but I can see room for abuse. Hopefully this doesn't result in first amendment zones like in our national parks.


http://reason.com/blog/2012/03/01/do...ill-change-any

Last edited by wowzers; 6 March 2012 at 09:02. Reason: Typo
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 6 March 2012, 08:54
Longrifle's Avatar
Longrifle Longrifle is offline
Sound off for equipment check!
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Caliginem pervincere
Posts: 4,020
This site hates it, therefore I am for it.
__________________
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.” ~Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 6 March 2012, 12:18
redhawk's Avatar
redhawk redhawk is offline
Amatuer TerrorAstrologist
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: North of West Virginia
Posts: 1,841
Quote:
Not exactly the abolition of the First Amendment, is it? RT and The New American's warnings are hopefully an exaggeration.
RT (Russia Today) is an anti-America propaganda machine and nothing more. It pains me to see people lend credence to their reports, analysis, and opinions.
__________________
"2/3rd of the way to my life long goal of being a SEAL/Pilot/Gynecologist..." -stearmann4
"Too dumb, even for the lounge. Closed." - Dark Helmet
"I am going to permit this thread to continue under the following conditions: 1. The original poster will cease posting like he is a skateboarder. 2. The original poster will use the search engine." -magician
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 7 March 2012, 10:08
Mortalitus Mortalitus is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hadley's Hope- LV-426
Posts: 839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longrifle View Post
This site hates it, therefore I am for it.
That bill is a tragedy. Having read it thoroughly it does several things. It effectively creates a felony enforceable "free-speech zone" around all public officials protected by Secret service (that means just about all Federal elected officials now congressman too) in a roving bubble. As well as any event, area, or building that the DHS determines is a NS event.


The language of the bill having been altered from "Knowingly and willfully enter" to just 'willfully" means that anyone caught in this area is subject to this jail-able punishment whether they had knowledge of this public officials visit, the location of the building (tourist) or the restriction as it is placed in real time or temporary for events. It also does not identify what activities constitute violation of the act. So all forms of conduct that would offend against the proper flow of the officials visit or normal operations of the building or event are punishable.


Scenario. This means all political rallies cannot be protested. No more DC protests outside tightly restricted areas. Occupy, tea party, all that shit is done.

If your standing on a corner and a Congressman or the POTUS drive by you are now subject to search and or arrest if it is determined you are being disruptive to this process or offensive. For instance angry at a town hall meeting? This act could net you in jail. Outraged at police beating that homeless guy in California last year, we wont see any protest on something like that anymore I'm positive this includes police stations in the broad scope of definition of Public buildings. The police now effectively have to power to disperse a crowd with the threat of arresting anyone with a year plus fiens in prison for coming withing X amount of space of any GOV building, special event or official.

However, don't think that we are special in this. It's actually quite Euro in origin. The French Monarchy and Church enacted laws for the poor and "unwashed masses" that prohibited them from being in sight whenever the King, an important Aristocrat (French or other), or Church official's Carriage were to pass. This was to used to uphold the false impression of a stable society. Ultimately separating the classes further and one of the main leading causes to the French revolution oppression of the masses and their voices.

2. chief things wrong here. It suppresses the Right to free speech and it does so via the redress of grievance. 2 things the GOV does not have the power to enforce. I pray there are enough Americans willing to go to jail for this because when it's our cause and our time to say something. You better believe I will speak up and do so publicly. I don't care if they wish to have all news coverage with shots of happy people for their propaganda machine this is America and it just doesn't work that way here.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 7 March 2012, 10:53
Longrifle's Avatar
Longrifle Longrifle is offline
Sound off for equipment check!
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Caliginem pervincere
Posts: 4,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalitus View Post
That bill is a tragedy. Having read it thoroughly it does several things. It effectively creates a felony enforceable "free-speech zone" around all public officials protected by Secret service (that means just about all Federal elected officials now congressman too) in a roving bubble. As well as any event, area, or building that the DHS determines is a NS event.
OK. Got it. Public officials protected by SS. (SS - Sounds Nazi, doesn't it)

Did you mean "NO free-speech zone?"

Quote:
No more DC protests outside tightly restricted areas. Occupy, tea party, all that shit is done.
Wait, what about the SS part? I have been to Occupy events and Tea Party events. Never saw the Secret Service. Is that proof they were there?

Quote:
For instance angry at a town hall meeting? This act could net you in jail. Outraged at police beating that homeless guy in California last year, we wont see any protest on something like that anymore
Is the Secret Service at town hall meetings and/or police beatings?

Quote:
2. chief things wrong here. It suppresses the Right to free speech and it does so via the redress of grievance. 2 things the GOV does not have the power to enforce. I pray there are enough Americans willing to go to jail for this because when it's our cause and our time to say something. You better believe I will speak up and do so publicly.
So will I. And with congressional approval ratings almost down to single digits, I think we'll have a lot of company.
__________________
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.” ~Patrick Henry
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 7 March 2012, 11:30
Mortalitus Mortalitus is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hadley's Hope- LV-426
Posts: 839
No but DHS was, most large protests fall under thier umbrella now. At Occupy they sent "advisors", as wel as anti-terrorism teams to the bigger protest in NY, oakland, etc. DHS has the power to classify any event as being under "special security circumstances" This includes all large protests and not even protests. DHS also monitors sporting events like the World series, super bowl, olympics, and other large public (newsworthy) events, etc
All these are now off limits to controversy if there is either a dignitary in the area or if it is considered a DHS "national special security event" whether you are aware that it is or not. This includes all surrounding areas that they designate.

‘‘§ 1752. Restricted building or grounds
‘‘(a) Whoever—
‘‘(1) knowingly enters or remains in any restricted building
or grounds without lawful authority to do so;
‘‘(2) knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the
orderly conduct of Government business or official functions,
engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such
proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so
that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly
conduct of Government business or official functions;

‘‘(1) the term ‘restricted buildings or grounds’ means any
posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area—
‘‘(A) of the White House or its grounds, or the Vice
President’s official residence or its grounds;
‘‘(B) of a building or grounds where the President or
other person protected by the Secret Service is or will
be temporarily visiting; or
‘‘(C) of a building or grounds so restricted in conjunction
with an event designated as a special event of national
significance; and
‘‘(2) the term ‘other person protected by the Secret Service’
means any person whom the United States Secret Service is
authorized to protect under section 3056 of this title or by
Presidential memorandum, when such person has not declined
such protection.’’.


here's the catch all. Notice that the President now has the power to assign SS protection to whomever he wants as well by Memorandum. DHS has the power to state that any property is a restricted area for Special security" reasons.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 7 March 2012, 18:35
Fubar's Avatar
Fubar Fubar is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Fork Ranch
Posts: 1,613
The power grab continues.....
__________________
Trust me, I have a long record of being correct. - OutsideTheB

CCCA Plank Owner #0054
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 7 March 2012, 18:41
KidA's Avatar
KidA KidA is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Big Sky Country
Posts: 13,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalitus View Post
...DHS was, ...DHS has the power to classify any event as being under "special security circumstances" ...DHS also monitors sporting events like the World series, super bowl, olympics, and other large public (newsworthy) events, etc...DHS "national special security event" whether you are aware that it is or not. ....
Who are the Americans who are going along with this and doing this work and seeing nothing wrong with it? Seriously?

DHS Please Protect me from Terrorists and people who say bad things!

Seriously...how does any American go along with this?
__________________
"Who is the man that is afraid and fainthearted? Let him depart and return to his house, so that he might not make his brothers' hearts melt like his heart."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 7 March 2012, 20:01
Markslams Markslams is offline
Nonrate
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ManBearPig Central
Posts: 395
I was going to post about this the other day when I came across it. I didn't because this law is already on the books and is nothing new. What they are doing, which this article clearly explains, is removing a single word "willfully". Now I must say that it is indeed troubling, but I don't believe this is a huge power grab as it's being made out to be.


Quote:
... for a defendant to have acted willfully, he must merely have “acted with knowledge that his conduct was unlawful.”...we focus our discussion on whether Bursey “willfully” violated the Statute, because, generally, “[m]ore is required” with respect to conduct performed willfully than conduct performed knowingly... requires “more culpable” mens rea than knowing violation).As a general proposition, the statutory term “knowingly” requires the Government to prove only that the defendant had knowledge of the facts underlying the offense
__________________
I plan on dying early so I don't have to listen to my snivelling family - rgrjoe175

But hey, you're a Marine. Bang all the fat ugly broads you want.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- BigNickT
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 7 March 2012, 22:06
Trailboss's Avatar
Trailboss Trailboss is offline
Just me & my Jeep...
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longrifle View Post
And with congressional approval ratings almost down to single digits, I think we'll have a lot of company.
That's *why* they are pushing for it! Remember: these people like to think ahead...way ahead! They know what is coming and are shoring up their defenses now! Or trying to, anyway...They may seem stupid sometimes...they may be elitist, arrogant, condescending, smarmy, snotty etc, etc, on and on...they may *be* a lot of things...but they are *not* stupid...it is, and has been, "Us vs Them" for a while now. They know that's only going to get worse.

Lol...we have arms...they have legislation!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 7 March 2012, 22:26
redhawk's Avatar
redhawk redhawk is offline
Amatuer TerrorAstrologist
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: North of West Virginia
Posts: 1,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailboss View Post
Lol...we have arms...they have legislation!
Last time I checked, they have both.
__________________
"2/3rd of the way to my life long goal of being a SEAL/Pilot/Gynecologist..." -stearmann4
"Too dumb, even for the lounge. Closed." - Dark Helmet
"I am going to permit this thread to continue under the following conditions: 1. The original poster will cease posting like he is a skateboarder. 2. The original poster will use the search engine." -magician
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 8 March 2012, 05:41
Trailboss's Avatar
Trailboss Trailboss is offline
Just me & my Jeep...
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
Last time I checked, they have both.
LOL! True....Not that many of them would pick up arms themselves. They have plenty of others to do the hard stuff...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:17.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET