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Old 21 February 2012, 14:08
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Suppressed Bolt Gun

Thought I'd throw this out there and see if anybody has any opinions or complaints about a rifle package I'm considering.

It seems mainstream firearms companies are starting to get on the suppressed bandwagon and are factory building suppressor ready guns.
The Rem 700 aac is a great example.

I've decided to go with a Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine in .308.
20in threaded barrel with 1:10 twist. I've had good luck with Savage in the past.
In the beginning I plan on shooting factory subsonics from TTI and EBR.
I've been reading metric tons of data on subsonic handloads, and it seems like a nightmare. Perhaps when i get more familiar with it.
For a suppressor I'm leaning towards a Yankee Hill. The price has a lot to do with that. I've heard good things about them, although I've never even seen one in person.

Any thoughts? Suggestions?
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Last edited by Walken1; 21 February 2012 at 14:24.
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Old 21 February 2012, 14:30
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First, make sure the paperwork is in order.

Second, don't let anybody else mess with your stuff: handle it, take pictures, give advice, ask for "hook ups", etc.

Third, do your homework, set up a firing table, shoot the table then evaluate the results. Then start over.

Fourth, log every shot in a long-gun diary.
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Old 23 February 2012, 00:55
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Mine is a 7.62 can from these guys. http://coastalgundotcom/

I have zero complaints about the quality of the can and both the owners at Coastal are stellar guys. The price was lower than YHM at the time and being local to me made it an easy decision.

I asked about some subsonic recipes over at the hide and got a ton of suggestions. Once you get ingratiated with a manufacturer or dealer for the suppressor, they'll no doubt have some folks in their circle who will have the answers you seek.

If this is your first suppressor or NFA item, you might find useful information if you search previous threads here regarding NFA Trusts.
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Old 23 February 2012, 11:09
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With the above or similiar, and trying to wring out all the accuracy you can, how often do you clean or at least punch the barrel? Does the suppressor need additional cleaning?
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Old 23 February 2012, 18:14
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If you're doing subsonic, why not a better subsonic cartridge like 300 Blackout or similar? It'll make handloading much easier. Subsonic 308 is a PITA, and asking for things like squibs and other issues. S/F.....Ken M
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Old 24 February 2012, 10:38
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Tracy,
Thanks. Solid advice. My NFA dealer is my attorney, so paper work should be good to go. The list of people on my trust is a short one and with the exception of very few, nobody will even know I have these. I will be logging every shot, too.

Yojinbukai,
Unfortunately my dealer knows a ton about paperwork, but very little about ballistics I got a few recipes at the hide too, but when they start talking about drilling out and enlarging the primer holes etc that's above what I'm comortable with for reloading. I was thinking of buying some factory ammo, taking it apart, and reverse engineering it.
By the way, EBR's subsonic "hunting" round is $220 a box???

Echo,
Glad you brought that up! Are the ballistics on 300blk subsonic really better? I've heard mixed things. I went with 308 so I could have the option of supersonic 308 performance, but I wouldnt be opposed to buying that same platform in 300blk if it really was a better/easier subsonic round.
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Old 27 February 2012, 06:46
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EchoFiveMike EchoFiveMike is offline
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If you're commited to subsonic, case capacity is not your friend. It doesn't take that much powder to get a rifle bullet to 1000fps. You can do small volumes of pistol powders in rifle cases, but they tend to be very touchy.

In a bolt gun, you have lots of options, from 7.62x39 to 30BR to 30/221, 300 Blackout, etc etc.

The folks at the website I'm listing did a custom cast bullet mold specifically for subsonic use. Cast bullets can/will foul a suppressor eventually, but they provide superior performance to jacketed bullets at subsonic velocities, both by virtue of being easier to engrave (very important in avoiding barrel obstructions) as well as being capable of expansion at the low velocity involved.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=102895

If you need factory ammo support, 308 is probably your best option, but it will be expensive. EBR is good stuff, but it is pricy. You get what you pay for. If you plan on handloading, there's a bunch of info at the link.

If you already have the rifle in 308Win, you'll probably want to start casting, or perhaps find someone who can cast bullets for you. The heavy bullet I listed isn't the only option, other heavy cast bullets would also work well. I emphasize cast bullets due to them being much more forgiving of pressure issues. After your first stuck jacketed bullet, assuming you don't have a catastrophic failure due to bore obstruction, any hassle of casting or procuring cast bullets will be quite inconsequential.

I should add that 1:10 may not be fast enough for the bullet I linked to. PM me and I'll see if I can send you some projectiles to try. S/F.....Ken M
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Last edited by EchoFiveMike; 27 February 2012 at 06:55.
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Old 17 April 2012, 02:51
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Just a quick update:
I went ahead and bought the savage in .308 and I tried to buy it in 300blk, also.
Turns out Savage has scrapped the 300blk citing accuracy issues? WTF?
In Feburary Remington announced it will be making the 300blk on a 700 platform with a 16.5 inch barrel. Through my work, I ordered that rifle (sku 84205). It has an msrp of 817.31 and gun websites are already advertising it. Only problem is most people at Remington have never heard of it, nor has it gone into production, and there is no prodcution date even scheduled for this year. (BTW, there were already a few thousand orders ahead of me )
So Remington makes a press release, creates a sku, sets an msrp for a rifle that doesn't exist and may not be produced this year.

I have considered building a 300blk bolt gun, but it's looking like that may cost a lot more than what I wanted to spend on a 100yd rifle.
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Old 17 April 2012, 03:37
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Why not just get a cheapy Savage and aftermarket barrel? Looks like that'll be less than $600 out the door, minus optics. Switching Savage barrels is a user level skill. S/F...Ken M

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=133129
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Old 17 April 2012, 03:57
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Awesome. Thanks for the link.
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Old 17 April 2012, 06:29
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Zonk 1/75 Zonk 1/75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walken1 View Post
T.........My NFA dealer is my attorney, so paper work should be good to go............
gotta love Texas.....
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Old 16 June 2012, 14:07
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Finally getting it put together.
Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine. Replaced the accustock with a Choate tactical and had it inletted for CDI bottom metal. Jeff at CDI does great work, for anybody interested. For now I'm using a Leupold MR/T with M2 dials mounted on an EGW 20 moa base with Burris XTR rings. Very solid.
The magazines are Alpha Type 1 10 rnd. They are awesome. Very sturdy construction and they lock up great. They are also about 1.5 inches shorter than AI mags and are only $62 a piece and built by a small company here in the USA by a firefighter who dabbles in badass mags. Can't beat that with a stick.

Just waiting on the damn stamp. Heard they hired 10 more people to sort that mountain of paperwork out...hope it makes a difference.
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"You see, violence merely creates more violence. It's a cycle that never ends... You insult me, I shoot you, you drop dead, someone else insults me... And it just keeps repeating over and over again. And for what?"

Last edited by Walken1; 16 June 2012 at 14:13.
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Old 16 June 2012, 15:57
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Thumbs down

No Jameson?
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Old 16 June 2012, 16:10
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Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
No Jameson?
3 bottles under the bar, and every Johnny Walker behind the scope
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"You see, violence merely creates more violence. It's a cycle that never ends... You insult me, I shoot you, you drop dead, someone else insults me... And it just keeps repeating over and over again. And for what?"

Last edited by Walken1; 16 June 2012 at 16:18.
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Old 16 June 2012, 21:59
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Bravo_One_Three Bravo_One_Three is offline
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I submitted 3 Form 4's for myself today. One for a Serbu shotgun, one for a Gemtech G5, the other for a Gemtech HVT-THD suppressor. I don't know what I'm going to mount it on yet, but the deal my employer made me on that HVT makes it worth getting the ball rolling. I'm thinking .300 BLK or .300 Whisper.
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Old 16 June 2012, 22:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo_One_Three View Post
I submitted 3 Form 4's for myself today. One for a Serbu shotgun, one for a Gemtech G5, the other for a Gemtech HVT-THD suppressor. I don't know what I'm going to mount it on yet, but the deal my employer made me on that HVT makes it worth getting the ball rolling. I'm thinking .300 BLK or .300 Whisper.
Remington's 84205 would be a great platform for a .300blk. I've heard rumors they'd be out in mid summer, and I've heard they may not get into production until next year.

EchoFiveMike made a good suggestion on how to build one at a reasonable price. The only .300blk boltgun I've actually seen was built from the ground up for a buddy of mine. He spent way more than I would have.

Congrats on submitting your paperwork. Supposedly the wait times are coming back down.

IIRC, 300 whisper can be fired from a rifle chambered in 300blk, but not vise versa.
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Old 16 June 2012, 23:15
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Wait times on form 4's are about 8 months right now in the Pacific Northwest thanks to a change in ownership laws in Washington State. Now that you can own one and actually USE it, there's a run on cans in most calibers. I have more than 100 in one stores stockroom alone waiting for tax stamps.

I'm not in any real hurry as I have a list of other rifles and pistols I want to buy before I start spending money on a bolt build.
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Old 17 June 2012, 19:36
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It seems that since the NFA branch reorganized and assigned certain examiners to certain states that the process has ground to a halt. I haven't heard about them hiring more people (in fact it seems as if they haven't hired anyone just shifted people around) and the current wait times are ridiculous.

Just before Obama was elected I submitted a Form 4 for a suppressor and it was approved in 78 days. About 7 months later I did another and it took around 90 days.

Then in 09 I submitted a Form 1 for an SBR and it took close to 4 months. It seems that since then things have gone seriously downhill and wait times are just clogged up.
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Old 17 June 2012, 22:39
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Iraqgunz,

Check this out. According to my NFA attorney the reporter who posted this works a lot with ATF and has always been pretty reliable.
For once, I hope you're wrong

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/370533_.html
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  #20  
Old 18 June 2012, 03:14
Fox33C1 Fox33C1 is offline
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I have had 5 suppressor form 4's go up since nov last year....do not have one yet

fortunately I work for a company part time that has a class 3 and class 7 and I am signed on as an R&D tech which covers me for transport of the items

but the waits these days are simply ridiculous

BTW all my suppressed long guns are rem 700's
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