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  #21  
Old 3 October 2018, 17:40
Rotor Strike please Rotor Strike please is offline
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Originally Posted by Believeraz View Post
This.
Yep. No Exigent Circumstances based on what you wrote.
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  #22  
Old 25 October 2018, 14:54
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Thanks gentlemen for the advice, as always. I don’t mind the criticism whatsoever, only way to get better. Kinda like those Army AARs, leave your feelings at the door.

On another note, the reason I have a difficult time trusting the other Officer’s judgement:

Round-about the middle of 2016 we had a child sex crime case. Sparing all the details; three small male children (pair of twins 3 yo, older brother 4 yo) were touched inappropriately by their adult male neighbor. I had only been a full time Police Officer about 2 years at this point, and had never handled a case like this. Not tooting my own horn, but through the course of about 3 or 4 months of building trust with the three boys I was able to break the code of silence they had between one another. They told me great details. Where in the house it happened, the day of the week it happened, a description of the camera the shit-bag used, and more (sparing details that need not be released).

I ask Officer Joe for his help all through the process, which he gave me. After gathering all the above information (not to mention he was in/watching the interviews take place) and heard every detail. When the boys each individually told me what happened, I left the interview room with a bit of happiness and a pretty big grin, because I knew we had some very good details and information to send to the prosecutor. I thought for sure the info would lead to something actionable, whatever that was going to be.

Officer Joe met me about 2 steps out of the interview room and after telling the boys’ mother the terrible but great information I was able to gather, Information she was unable to gather. I asked Officer Joe what he thought and he informed me that there’s no way we had enough info to send to a prosecutor; in front of mom. I’ve never seen such dramatic change in mood in my life. She went from total happiness to utter disappointment as soon as Officer Joe started talking to me. We went back into the interview (Joe, me and mom), so Joe could tell mom the official “it’ll take more time to develop this.” As we were all walking into the room and I sat down at the desk, I turned my body camera back on, only to have detective Joe tell me to turn it off, “we don’t need this recorded.” Joe told mom that the boys need to continue going to counseling and if and when more details arise to let us know so we could gather it and maybe it’d be enough to move the case forward.

As mom and the boys were leaving I pulled mom aside and told her I would be stopping by their house on patrol any chance I got to see if any of the information changed. So, for approximately 2(ish) years I did just that. I’d stop, give them my business card with the case number on it, and plead with the parents to call me with any new information. I’d also send an email to mom advising the same. Never heard a word from them. Fast forward to just before the missing juvenile I posted about originally. My Chief called me on the phone, said he was sitting with an agency that started with an F and had two letters following, and explained that the family had made a formal complaint to them that we did not follow through with this case. FUCK! I gave a quick and abbreviated summary of the details as the agency listened while I was on speaker phone.

Ok, they said. I was pissed. I felt I didn’t do enough, I knew I should have went behind Joe’s back, circumvented his decision, and sent it to the prosecutor. What would it have hurt to have the prosecutor (him having immunity) take a look at the details and make the decision. But, when Joe made his decision I looked at my experience vs his (Joe has been a detective for a very long time), and assumed he knew what he was doing. Not to mention I was pretty fresh out of the Army, so I took the chain of command thing pretty seriously. Who was I to question his motives, or decision making process?

I rewatched every minute of every interview with every subject involved. I missed a few body language cues from the boys, but again, I wasn’t very experienced in that art when I initially conducted the interviews. I wrote a supplemental narrative with the new details I’d picked up rewatching the interviews. Doesn’t sound like anything against me (negligence wise) is happening. But, as short as I could, this is why trusting Officer Joe is a difficult decision for me. I did learn some valuable experience from the event:

1. Trust your gut. I hear this said to new officers all the time. But seriously, not sure what happens, but trust that feeling
2. The body tells you more than what’s coming out of someone’s mouth. Some people can lie or not tell you all the details without so much as a smirk. But, those people are few and far between. Watch how people react to questions you know the answers to, see how they tell you the truth, and take note to how they react to the questions they have to look for answers to rather than just telling you their answers. All you experienced Officers know this already, sorry for boring you.
3. Reach out to your prosecutor. Your jurisdiction/city pays him well to advise you on what to do. He has immunity, you don’t, let him/her make the decision.
4. I work for a great Chief, Experienced through and through. Reach out to other leadership in your chain of command. I should have walked into Chief’s office and explained what we had going on. I’m not telling you to do that if you work in a huge department, but seek advice from someone you trust. In my small-town-cop experience, Police work isn’t like the military. It’s not like your 1SG telling the company at PT formation he has a “open-door” policy and PVT-you walk in telling him that you really don’t want to do PT anymore. If your inquiry has merit, I generally feel you’d be fine seeking out other command staff’s opinion on something like this.

The above is one, among many, why I’ve recently decided to move away from Police work full time. In my experience, Cops, NOT Policemen/Police Officers, are difficult people to work with. Constantly complaining about whatever, hating the process of changing. My Chief sold me on changing the culture of Police work. It’s been about 5 years since he sold me on that, but I’ve been unable to see positive change at the small 20 Officer department we have, I had to make a change. It’s a very rewarding career, I learned a bunch about people, about the law, but had a hard time adjusting to cop’s “we’ve always done it this way” culture.

To those that do it every day, thank you. It’s an extremely difficult job, I commend each and everyone of you for doing it. Having to clean up a messy fatal crash, then transitioning into going home and hugging your wife and kids is a difficult process. It’s been said by more experienced members of LE here over and over, make sure you’re ready for this career before you get 10 years into it and go, “shit, this is hard.” The most difficult thing for me was coming from the Infantry world, being around guys (mostly) that strive to be the best they can, to a world where change and asking for a better solution is frowned upon. I’m not saying all PDs are this way, not in the least bit. Mostly, there are some kick ass Officers and Departments in our Country, work hard to get there or make your department that way.

Be careful out there folks. Thanks for your service!
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  #23  
Old 25 October 2018, 18:26
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Macka Macka is offline
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I think the lack of exigency goes back to the first paragraph. The kid was gone for 24 or more hours. If she was so worried about his depression she should have reported him missing ASAP.

For exigency in this fact pattern you have to have reason to believe he is a danger to himself. Well, it's been 24 hours and he appears fine in the FB pic.

There is also no mention of the circumstances of his departure. Did he storm out in a huff with a rope tied into a noose or did he just not come home?
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  #24  
Old 25 October 2018, 19:58
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nofear nofear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
It’s a very rewarding career, I learned a bunch about people, about the law, but had a hard time adjusting to cop’s “we’ve always done it this way” culture.
BTDT. I was addicted to Policing. I loved it and hated it at the same time. I found the work was easy, as everything was black/white.

But the organisational politics drove me fucking mad, in both State and Federal agencies, and led me to leaving both agencies.

Sure, I worked hard, I made great friends, I saved some good people and locked up some evil monsters. Hell, I even fought tooth and nail to make some effective changes. But the burden of the internal politics still makes me mad, and has made me realise the importance on focusing on "quality of life", not "quality of job".

You tried....which is more than most people can say.
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  #25  
Old 25 October 2018, 22:27
Regulator3 Regulator3 is offline
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+1000 to Nofear's comment. When I was LEO in the south burbs of Chicago, I always understood that the bad guys were going to lie, cheat, and possibly try to hurt me in any number of ways. New on the job and not from the area, I had no idea that my co-workers would do the same, and be an arguably bigger problem.
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  #26  
Old 25 October 2018, 23:26
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Massgrunt Massgrunt is online now
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I had a similar call not too long ago. Guy calls saying his daughter has warrants and she's hiding out at this particular house smoking crack. I do a threshold inquiry, transvestite homeowner who stabbed a guy to death in the 90s assures me he and/or she has never heard of this young lady. I leave, the father assurss me THIS is the fucking house and describes the tranny homeowner in broken English.

I go back, engage in a second conversation, and as luck would have it the homeowner suddenly retreats back into the house causing me to fear he may be attempting to retrieve a weapon. I pursue the homeowner inside for officer safety purposes and we begin to secure everybody present because we have a fluid situation and lots of unknowns. Anyway, it was right about that time the homeowner remembers that the cracked out young lady is in the back bedroom.

Sometimes it just works out that way, ya know?
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  #27  
Old 26 October 2018, 04:36
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leopardprey leopardprey is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
I had a similar call not too long ago. Guy calls saying his daughter has warrants and she's hiding out at this particular house smoking crack. I do a threshold inquiry, transvestite homeowner who stabbed a guy to death in the 90s assures me he and/or she has never heard of this young lady. I leave, the father assurss me THIS is the fucking house and describes the tranny homeowner in broken English.

I go back, engage in a second conversation, and as luck would have it the homeowner suddenly retreats back into the house causing me to fear he may be attempting to retrieve a weapon. I pursue the homeowner inside for officer safety purposes and we begin to secure everybody present because we have a fluid situation and lots of unknowns. Anyway, it was right about that time the homeowner remembers that the cracked out young lady is in the back bedroom.

Sometimes it just works out that way, ya know?
Well you can never say your job is boring.

Good work!!
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  #28  
Old 26 October 2018, 10:17
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Ha, it's actually wicked boring a lot of the time but it can always get real fun real quick.
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"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that."

- "The Dogs of War" by Frederick Forsyth
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  #29  
Old 26 October 2018, 15:13
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256 256 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macka View Post
I think the lack of exigency goes back to the first paragraph. The kid was gone for 24 or more hours. If she was so worried about his depression she should have reported him missing ASAP.

For exigency in this fact pattern you have to have reason to believe he is a danger to himself. Well, it's been 24 hours and he appears fine in the FB pic.

There is also no mention of the circumstances of his departure. Did he storm out in a huff with a rope tied into a noose or did he just not come home?
Right, got it. When she woke up in the morning she’d discovered he had snuck out of the house in the middle of the night. But like you mentioned, there was a bit of a time gap there. Maybe she was apprehensive of calling because she didn’t want to bug police on a child disciplined issue, not sure.
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