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  #21  
Old 30 March 2009, 23:08
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Originally Posted by Caduceus Drew View Post
Are Reserve CA medics getting SOCM and CAMS yet?
Nope. Doubt it will happen any time soon either. First time I heard of a reservist going (and I believe this incident was a test run for reservists) was one of my guys but then he couldn't attend for a reason unknown to me. Never heard of anyone going or slotted to go since.
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  #22  
Old 30 March 2009, 23:42
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Too bad. I understand USACAPOC falls under USARC not USASOC, but it's too bad the training isn't made available. I mean CAMS stands for Civil Affairs Medical Sergeant - shouldn't the RC have the same capability as AC?

I know I might as well be asking if a tree falls in the woods blahblah...
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  #23  
Old 31 March 2009, 01:22
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Been awhile but I though the reserve CA Bats used to have some 18D slots. Could be wrong, like I said it's been awhile.
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  #24  
Old 31 March 2009, 20:33
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With the optempo and the influx of people in and out, it wouldnt make sense to send someone who is not going to be around too long to a school thats several months. USACAPOC is under scrutiny regarding $$ from USARC and Im sure that would affect sending personnel even if the slots are there.
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  #25  
Old 1 April 2009, 07:16
CATAtonic426 CATAtonic426 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus Drew View Post
shouldn't the RC have the same capability as AC?
In a word, No. [rant on] According to CA history, there actually used to be a plan, RC & AC CA Bns had different TOE corresponding to their wartrace unit and supported AO. Old school CA doctrine called for the 96th (previously the only AC unit) to be ready for immediate deployment in response to a contingency and was to be replaced by RC w/in 90 days. It seems all the RC units have been reformatted to a general purpose unit full of straight 38Bs. My unit still has one SO/FID/UW company with medics, dentists, vets, engineers, etc, but they've mostly been crosstrained 38B and are only deployed as 38B. I see this as being in response to the idea of mobilizing reservists piecemeal to fill battle rosters (the idea was to decrease the economic impact to a geographic region by deploying all the reservists in that area at the same time for 12 months... CA units really aren't big enough to worry about) instead of deploying BNs, Companies, and Teams to an AO. Really, they are solely focused on putting bodies on the battlefield in OIF/OEF instead of utilizing an organized force structure. They give you a gun, a slap on the ass, and the simple instructions of go and do great things. The mindset is changing however, and leaders are starting to realize the value in the concept of unit integrity and fighting with the people you train with. Who woulda thunk...? [rant off]

That being said, as stated previously, in the RC we do have medics, but if we deployed them, they deployed as 38Bs, office clerks, or maybe as part of a medical liaison team. Our guys used to attend things like the SOMA conference, but we don't have any SOCMs, and I haven't heard of the course being offered to us.
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  #26  
Old 1 April 2009, 13:43
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From ATRRS:

CAMS Course Scope
"Recognize the relevance of medical threats for field forces; environmental health programs; medical threat briefing prep and presentation; waterborne illness/disease identification, investigation and prevention; water analysis, sampling, testing, purifying; foodborne illness/disease, identification, investigation and prevention; Arthropod borne illness/disease identification, investigation, prevention and control; veterinary emergency and preventitive care for large and domestic animals; and dental disease recognition and emergency treatment."

I guess my point is - this skill set seems not only relevant, but absolutely necessary as part of the CA mission, RC or AC. The RC CA team attached to my BN during OIF III did not have a medic. This would have prevented them from being able to carry out the above stated mission set. I was underemployed at our FOB's joint aid station so I was able to OPCON myself to the team and everyone wins yay

I guess what I'm hearing though is that 68W's are being used as 38B's which precludes the need for SOCM or CAMS. I'm still not sure how the individual CAT-A's wouldn't benefit from having a medical SME organic to the team though, i.e. hospital and clinic assessments, MEDCAP planning (Class VIII requirements among other things), water testing, basic vet care, etc. Those missions certainly don't require SOCM, but are beyond 68W10 AIT.

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  #27  
Old 1 April 2009, 14:26
CATAtonic426 CATAtonic426 is offline
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Exclamation

Agreed that a SOCM is a necessary skillset as part of a fully functional CAT. We could have used one here for sure. However, you just hit on a big CAism... the ability of a CA team to adapt, improvise, overcome... or is it beg, borrow, steal... IOT accomplish its mission. For some reason, leaders allow this to go on day in and day out in the CA world. There are many things that are real world needs for a CA team, but for some reason leaders don't do what it takes to get it to the teams through the proper channels. Instead, they rely on the CA operator's innate schmoozing skills and motivation to get the job done. In fact, they encourage this method for procuring equipment, training, billeting, maintenance, access, etc.

The other CAism is that there is no measuring stick by which to gauge CA ops. If you send CA teams into the fight with a SOCM, there is no objective way of measuring whether or not those teams were more effective than teams who picked up a medic somewhere... or who had no medic at all. Sure, you can say you treated X number of patients or you assisted HN medical assets in improving B, C, and D programs... but are you really that much closer to "winning" a counterinsurgency?

There is another big CAism related to functional specialties such as SOCMs and CA soldiers, and that is civilian careers. If you were to draw a pie diagram on civilian careers of CA soldiers I've met, there would be two large and almost equal sections depicting law enforcement professionals and medical services. We have civilian side PAs, RNs, a Periodontist, fire fighters, EMTs, Paramedics, former Ranger medics... The fact of the matter is that you have highly trained, experienced medics from the civilian side deployed as CA team members. These are an invaluable resource to us and to the Army, something that leaders exploit and capitalize on, but rarely give recognition.

So in short, you are dealing with a number of CAisms that it seems have become the bandaid below a cravat underneath a field dressing covered by an emergency bandage that was then sprinkled with quickclot powder and wrapped in 90mph tape topped with a hemcon dressing and then doused in kerosine and lit on fire in an attempt to cauterize the papercut...
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  #28  
Old 1 April 2009, 15:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CATAtonic426 View Post
The other CAism is that there is no measuring stick by which to gauge CA ops. If you send CA teams into the fight with a SOCM, there is no objective way of measuring whether or not those teams were more effective than teams who picked up a medic somewhere... or who had no medic at all. Sure, you can say you treated X number of patients or you assisted HN medical assets in improving B, C, and D programs... but are you really that much closer to "winning" a counterinsurgency?
I would counter with this example - the current heavy brigade MTOE authorizes 2 68S Preventive Medicine Specialists who are assigned to the Brigade Support Medical Company and tasked through the BDE SPO. Suppose they spend 50% of their time dedicated to PM issues at patrol bases and 50% of their time on projects for the HN (more like 90/10 in my experience). Then add 4 CAT-A's to the mix, each with a qualified CAMS who dedicates 100% of their time to HN projects. You've just increased that capability 400% across the BDE, there's your metrics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CATAtonic426 View Post
There is another big CAism related to functional specialties such as SOCMs and CA soldiers, and that is civilian careers. If you were to draw a pie diagram on civilian careers of CA soldiers I've met, there would be two large and almost equal sections depicting law enforcement professionals and medical services. We have civilian side PAs, RNs, a Periodontist, fire fighters, EMTs, Paramedics, former Ranger medics... The fact of the matter is that you have highly trained, experienced medics from the civilian side deployed as CA team members. These are an invaluable resource to us and to the Army, something that leaders exploit and capitalize on, but rarely give recognition.
Agreed. I believe that is the argument to maintain most of the CA force in the RC.
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  #29  
Old 1 April 2009, 16:23
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Metalchica Metalchica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CATAtonic426 View Post
So in short, you are dealing with a number of CAisms that it seems have become the bandaid below a cravat underneath a field dressing covered by an emergency bandage that was then sprinkled with quickclot powder and wrapped in 90mph tape topped with a hemcon dressing and then doused in kerosine and lit on fire in an attempt to cauterize the papercut...
Accurate.

Incidentally, the Navy's Active and Reserve Maritime Civil Affairs Teams (MCATs) consist of 5 personnel, including an inherent medical and engineering capability: commander, corpsman, communicator, coxswain, and constructionman (Seabee).
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  #30  
Old 1 April 2009, 22:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalchica View Post
Accurate.

Incidentally, the Navy's Active and Reserve Maritime Civil Affairs Teams (MCATs) consist of 5 personnel, including an inherent medical and engineering capability: commander, corpsman, communicator, coxswain, and constructionman (Seabee).
Good luck getting an MTOE change for that since it would make sense. Me and the old DCO, BWB, talked about this in 2003! Initial entry should not be 38B but should be engineers, medics, commo, and a force pro guy (11 series) and then at the team sgt rank, go to the CA course and get either a secondary or an indentifier. Some 19yr old E-3 with only a 38B background doesnt bring the same to the table as a 19yr old E-3 medic, cbt engineer, or 31U. They also need to spend more time on training up commo personnel on the speciality equipment since its not taught to them at Ft Gordon during AIT. Mobilization time is not the time for them to learn especially if they are to troubleshoot down range!
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  #31  
Old 1 April 2009, 23:20
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Never happen but too bad there isnt money in the budget to send team members to 12B school, 11B school, 68W etc. They could certainly use the skills.

Could also make 38B a non entry MOS. Make all team slots E-5 and above. That would draw people with skills from other local reserve units looking for promotion opportunities. Have a unit ran selection process also.

Is the possibility for cross training with the NG SF Groups there? Most CA reserve units are fairly close to a NG SF unit. Use the SF guys to provide training to the CA folks, 2 birds with one stone. The CA unit gets training and the SF guys get to train (one of their core tasks).

Just throwing ideas out most probably not even feasible.
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  #32  
Old 29 December 2009, 11:43
Gerry.Jr Gerry.Jr is offline
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edited

Your first post needs to be here. http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=73033

Last edited by Olive Drab; 30 December 2009 at 18:39.
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  #33  
Old 29 December 2009, 20:59
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Your first post needs to be here. http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=73033

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  #34  
Old 30 December 2009, 19:59
Gerry.Jr Gerry.Jr is offline
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Hello all,


My question, to be pithy & blunt, is --- What is the most effective and efficient manner to become a U.S. Army Civil Affairs Medical Sergeant? [ MOS-ASI 68W W2 ]

I am 21 and not currently enlisted, but have been weighing the option in recent months as personal motivators seem to be pushing me towards this direction.

The first and foremost being the discovery of this little known [about] career field. When I found out about it, it became somewhat of a necessity for me to eventually be a part of it.

I realize it is not an initial enlistment ASI, so I am trying to find what role and mission I can undertake to best prepare and qualify me for it down the line. Would anyone have any suggestions and/or knowledge of prerequisites for lateral transfer? [Is it significantly difficult to become a SOCM-qualified medic after spending the majority of your career as a normal 68W?]

I have done my best to track the discussions in the relevant stickied thread of this sub-forum and to perform extensive research on CAMS through a bit of 'Google-Fu', but even my formidable skills come up short.

As always, I am grateful to any and all that can provide information and insight. Much obliged and Happy New Year.
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  #35  
Old 30 December 2009, 20:07
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Thank you for the intro.

To be competitive, enlist as a medic, do a tour or two down range in an airborne unit and get some leadership experience under your belt. If you cant get in an airborne unit then get jump school this way SWC doesnt have to pay to send you and it will help your packet. When you have a tour or two under your belt, you will be an E-5 or E-6. Go see Special Operations Recruiting at Bragg and work with them to get the required paperwork completed and submitted for the next enlisted CA accession board.

http://www.bragg.army.mil/sorb...ILAFFAIRS_QUALS.html
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  #36  
Old 17 January 2010, 16:49
Gerry.Jr Gerry.Jr is offline
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Hello all,

One last question, if possible.

Someone was kind enough to link me to the following article:

http://www.soc.mil/swcs/swmag/Articles_Page5.htm

In it is written that a limited number of 38Bs [Civil Affairs Specialists] are selected to go through both SOCM and CAMS instead of becoming normal Civil Affairs Sergeants after making E-5.

Would anyone happen to know about this process? Is this a feasible option for reaching my goal as well?

Much obliged!
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