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Old 9 September 2002, 03:54
Gregory Deych
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Mogadishu tactics

Background: On another board I frequent I got into an arguement with a Russian special forces guy (he is legit, insofar as such things can be checked without face-to-face contact). He critiqued the tactics used in the Aidid raid, and said he'd do it as follows:
Rangers land on buildings around the objective, seize the buildings, establishing a perimeter on the roof and first floor.

Delta lands on the roof of the target building, seizes it, lands helicopter(s) on top of the roof, loads prisoners and themselves into it and fly out.

Rangers, under cover of Little Bird fire and planted mines and similiarly fly out from the roofs of the buildings.

When I noted that most buildings in Mogadishu would not hold a UH-60 weightwise on the roof, he said that Russian pilots conducted similar evacuations by holding the helicopters in dynamic equilibrium. He also poo-pooed the possibily of a Blackhawk being shotdown during evacuation by saying the odds would be minimal, since it would be done very quickly.

I'd like some opinions of knowledgeable people, especially on the helicopter angle of the whole thing since to me it looks the most dubious.
Old 9 September 2002, 08:48
longrange1947 longrange1947 is offline
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Location: Fayetteville, NC, USA
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Thumbs down Yeah right

Ask him why he had somuch trouble in A'stan then.

Once alerted, there would have been more RPGs in the air then little birds.
Hold Hard Guys

Rick B

"Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not sticking it up your ass."

"Experience is what you get right after you need it."

both authors "unknown"
Old 9 September 2002, 11:53
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Yeah......just tell him that this site is not full of armchair quarterbacks and that the Russians really shouldn't have much to say when it comes to all things military. If he was indeed real, he should know better.
Old 10 September 2002, 00:01
Gregory Deych
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OK, thanks.
Old 10 September 2002, 04:15
Huey One Four
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Re: Mogadishu tactics

Originally posted by Gregory Deych holding the helicopters in dynamic equilibrium

So the Ruskies hold their helos in a hover?

Gee, Im SO impressed.
Old 10 September 2002, 08:22
HmtPD HmtPD is offline
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Location: Hemet, Ca, USA
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Hold a perimeter from the tops of roofs while the entry team is operating on ground level? And the opposition is coming at you from ground level? So much for effective "grazing fire" from your machine guns and M-249's.
Old 21 September 2002, 20:59
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Do you really wanna tell me that US tactics in Mogadishun were allright? The idea of getting the prisoners out by jeep is total bullshit and unrealistic. Especially to go in by day. Very funny. I don`t want to say that everything is ok with the russian guys idea but when I read your replies it looks like if the US plans were the best possible/without the slightest mistakes.
Old 21 September 2002, 22:23
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Thumbs down Gone

Originally posted by haho
Do you really wanna tell me that US tactics in Mogadishun were allright? The idea of getting the prisoners out by jeep is total bullshit and unrealistic. Especially to go in by day. Very funny. I don`t want to say that everything is ok with the russian guys idea but when I read your replies it looks like if the US plans were the best possible/without the slightest mistakes.
Reading history one can surmise that U.S. tactic's worked well not once but twice on your country. BTW, you're banned.
Old 27 September 2002, 14:23
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IIRC, the tactics worked really well. We just used them once too often.

Keep doing the same things the same way, and eventually even the stupidest adversary is going to get a clue.....
Old 27 September 2002, 16:16
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Tell the red star commie....Remember Afganistan?
Old 27 September 2002, 22:43
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"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
(Paris Sorbonne,1910)

My guess is the commie is full of it

Last edited by Addi; 27 September 2002 at 22:47.
Old 24 October 2002, 15:31
Fix_Bayonets Fix_Bayonets is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 8
Backup for mini-guns

Hello Gentlemen,

On a seperate thread on the Ranger forum was posted the following link:

Among the things that stand out for me in that incredible story is the following passage:

"There was no power to the aircraft without which
we could not operate the mini-guns. One of the team members
yelled at a member of the crew to get the power working so
we could use those guns. The mini-guns shoot 7.62 ammo and
so does our M240. "

When I read BHD, I wondered what the outcome would have been if the downed birds had a back-up power supply dedicated to the operation of the miniguns. Not to arm-chair quarterback any tactics, but I honestly believe that having reserve power for the minguns would have saved lives of our soldiers in Somolia and Rogers Ridge.

Maybe the guns were too damaged to use even if power was available, I don't know. But my question is really just a spur-of-the-moment brainstorm. Is it not an avenue worth exploring to have a reserve power system external to the birds batteries and electronic systems that can be hooked up to the miniguns to make them operational in the event that there is a crash in a hostile area? You would think that would do a lot to help establish a perimeter until a rescue force arrived. Or is there something that produces the same effect already in place?

Or maybe I just saw too many "A-Team" re-runs as a kid :)

I apologize if this is OPSEC or maybe should be a different thread. I am just thinking out loud. No offence meant.

Old 24 October 2002, 16:58
Double_D Double_D is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington
Posts: 10
The first Black Hawk that went down crashed and finished up on its side. Durant's I don't know remember if any of the crew was alive afterwards besdies Durant and himself. In the movie I saw a minigun and Shughart (sp?) sitting next to it firing his M21/M16. Maybe he could of mowed down a bunch of people? Probably the time he got it up and running/firing the Somali's would of been shooting at him pretty bad I guess. This is just my interpretation.

And if a chopper did crash and I was in it, I would want to get the hell out of there. Every enemy would probably be converging on that spot.
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