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  #81  
Old 27 July 2017, 05:08
Hostile0311 Hostile0311 is offline
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The military has two jobs... Training for and winning wars.

It's simply about lethality. It's not a social experiment or social utopia for that matter... nor should it be.

Nobody has a "right" to serve in the military.

You change yourself to meet military standards... Not the other way around.

You don't change the military... It changes you.

If any of your personal issues are a liability or a detriment to the unit's overall effectiveness that may detract from its readiness or its lethality... Thank you for trying but you are a "no-go" at this station. Good luck in your future endeavors.
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  #82  
Old 27 July 2017, 05:18
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In my local area, of course the local media (TV and Newspaper) are running stories this morning regarding local's reactions. Of course all the stories, with just a few people interviewed, are anti-Trump and pro-transgendered. And of course, they only interviewed some fellow liberals, LGBT types, with none of them of course having served in the military, let alone combat roles.

Getting really tired of all these people who have never served in a combat unit trying to state what is good for the military, what is good for a "combat unit". They have no concept of reality.
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  #83  
Old 27 July 2017, 06:06
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
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I think a lot of so called SJWs who have never served have a very weird view of the military. They think their BS translates there and someone will actually applaud them and bow down to their demands.

I was brought up and educated in a manner that I don't run my mouth about things I have no experience with or no education about. Yet I see a constant rise of besserwissers, people who know best and equate their personal opinion with objective judgement that carries any weight in that specific environment they comment on.

Having said that, I do believe that thankfully military, being what it is, will succesfully resist all sorts of BS and carry on with its time and experience proven, rigid and professional manner. Because one thing the studies on a military academy (even as a civilian) taught me was that all sorts of bullshit that tend to float and be given credence in civilian world are quickly brought down to earth when faced with grim, down-to-earth reality of the military. In there you walk the walk and not talk the talk.

And if there's one group the SJWs, feminists and other commie hippes should be wary of trying to mess with, it's definitely the military.
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  #84  
Old 27 July 2017, 06:13
82Redleg 82Redleg is offline
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I see no military advantage to allowing people with a known medical/psych issue that is likely (nearly universally so) to make them non-deployable to serve.

I see huge issues with announcing policy changes like this through Twitter. We have a system and bureaucratic process for a reason, and changing military policy on Twitter is probably a bad idea. Does anyone see an upside to announcing this change on Twitter instead of through the normal policy channels?
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  #85  
Old 27 July 2017, 06:18
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
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Yes, but it's an upside from a political POV imo. Policy channels are read by professionals, Twitter is usually a domain of wide populace. You relay the message thru twitter for populistic reasons, so to speak, to hit the wider audience (usually the ones who don't even know about the real policy channels or how to read and interpret them). As long as that Twitter communication is not the only one and the policy channels are utilized along with it, it might not be a problem IMO.
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  #86  
Old 27 July 2017, 07:17
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^ seems to have definitely worked, gotten the word out. Much more so that a press statement probably would have. And if there was a press statement, it would have just been Twitified anyway.

Overall though I am not impressed with the Presidents usage of Twitter. Sometimes it does seem to project the wrong image. But, maybe that is just the way our society is going. The modern day equivalent of the President addressing the public via radio in the 1930s. But, overall I think we have lost something in society in general with the new way of social media interactions.
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  #87  
Old 27 July 2017, 07:44
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
^ seems to have definitely worked, gotten the word out. Much more so that a press statement probably would have. And if there was a press statement, it would have just been Twitified anyway.

Overall though I am not impressed with the Presidents usage of Twitter. Sometimes it does seem to project the wrong image. But, maybe that is just the way our society is going. The modern day equivalent of the President addressing the public via radio in the 1930s. But, overall I think we have lost something in society in general with the new way of social media interactions.
His use of Twitter is counterproductive and it undermines the administration...it is no way to run a government and plays into the hands of those who are against him. I regret voting for him but couldn't, absolutely couldn't vote for Hillary. I hated the vote and had hoped he would be better and it was all rhetoric for the campaign. I was wrong.
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  #88  
Old 27 July 2017, 07:50
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^I hear ya. I tell people I did not vote for Pres. Trump, I voted against Sen. Hillary Clinton. Still kind of amazes me, that over 300 million people in America, and that is the best we could come up with for the election. There have been some good things, things I agree with that Pres. Trump has done, that he promised to do. But, at the same time I have some criticism of him. If Pres. Trump does not do as planned, make some significant changes, within the next year, well, you are going to see Democrats being swept into office. Riled up Democrats, combined with disappointed Trump voters (who will feel, "what is the point of voting anymore") is a recipe for disaster.
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  #89  
Old 27 July 2017, 09:11
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
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Problem with POTUS Trump and Twitter is that he heavily used (and abused) it during his campaign. Said campaign was viewed by some as bordering on farce due to lots of hilarious one-liners and general populism of the debate between candidates. So Trump should've limited his Twitter exposure or stopped it altogether after being sworn in, because quite a lot of people didn't take his tweets all that seriously during the campaign and they might see it now as a continuation of that very light-handed approach which doesn't fit the topic at hand.
Twitter is social media, not official international or internal channel for relaying important changes in state policies. It serves its purpose as a sort of loudspeaker but it should not be the main channel in any case.
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  #90  
Old 27 July 2017, 09:12
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Originally Posted by Mr.Smith View Post
So, wait, are you guys saying that what someone does in his/her/it's bedroom means you shouldn't be allowed to serve?


As long as it's kept in your bedroom where it belongs I don't think anyone gives a rats ass. That was the whole point of DADT.


But the bigger question here is, does allowing LGBTQ people to serve in the military make our military stronger and more lethal? The obvious answer is no. It doesn't. The only thing it does is create problems in a military that has plenty of problems to worry about already, without creating more. As John said, serving is not a right. Plenty of people are turned away "for the good of the service", as it should be.

My personal opinion is that allowing them in is just the camels nose under the tent in the long game of the liberals to infect our military in a similar way that they have infected our universities and corporate America.

All in the name of "Fair".
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  #91  
Old 27 July 2017, 09:17
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
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There was a country that tried the "fair" and "equalism" story already albeit not in terms of sexuality but socioeconomics, with known consequences.
That country was the Soviet Union.
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  #92  
Old 27 July 2017, 10:04
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I have no opinion on transgender people in the military, per se, but it seems obvious to me that there is a severe mental health component that, outside the context of the LGBTQIAXYZ zeitgeist, would/should result in permanent disqualification.

The timing is hilarious and sad.
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  #93  
Old 27 July 2017, 10:18
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HighDragLowSpeed HighDragLowSpeed is offline
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Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
a severe mental health component that, outside the context of the LGBTQIAXYZ zeitgeist, would/should result in permanent disqualification.
The community can easily negate this argument by parading out a whole set of TG veterans who don't seem crazy. Argument lost. Same with the "social experient" argument...people that haven't served don't understand the experimentation aspect of this policy.

A better argument is as follows:

- the vast majority of TG veterans being interviewed were not TG while they served in the military

- None of the TG veterans being interview talk about the hormone issue in the context of readiness.

- Dependency on medications such as hormones is a block to deployment. No shortage of non-TG candidates with an otherwise strong desire to serve have been denied entry into the service for the same reason
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  #94  
Old 27 July 2017, 10:51
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
If Pres. Trump does not do as planned, make some significant changes, within the next year, well, you are going to see Democrats being swept into office. Riled up Democrats, combined with disappointed Trump voters (who will feel, "what is the point of voting anymore") is a recipe for disaster.
Spot-on. The road to hell is paved with "good intentions"... (and un-kept campaign promises).

In 6mo. I've seen very little leadership toward the big promises of Jobs/infrastructure, Healthcare, and Tax Reform. The "accountability" promise was pissed on the day after inauguration under some bullshit of "healing the divide" and "moving on with the country's business".

When, in fact the lack of "accountability" is EXACTLY why this country is floundering and failing to succeed. I was promised big changes to the "swamp" in exchange for my vote, by a man who didn't give a shit about the "status-quo". I fail to see the leadership of tweeting "I'm mad at you" to his own attorney general. F#@k, I can't believe I'm even typing the word "tweet" like it's common now. Is this management by popularity and ratings? Through public embarrassment? Fear? I guess that could work...but I don't see that as positive team building or developing trust and loyalty from your other subordinates.

I'm also a disappointed Trump voter at this point. And I wonder if we truly have pissed away our last, best hope for fixing our country.

This military transgender issue seems like something to address AFTER more important issues are addressed, and not from a 3am tweet from the whitehouse shitter. I'm with KidA on this being likely just a big distraction.
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  #95  
Old 27 July 2017, 10:52
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Sharky Sharky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighDragLowSpeed View Post
The community can easily negate this argument by parading out a whole set of TG veterans who don't seem crazy. Argument lost. Same with the "social experient" argument...people that haven't served don't understand the experimentation aspect of this policy.

A better argument is as follows:

- the vast majority of TG veterans being interviewed were not TG while they served in the military

- None of the TG veterans being interview talk about the hormone issue in the context of readiness.

- Dependency on medications such as hormones is a block to deployment. No shortage of non-TG candidates with an otherwise strong desire to serve have been denied entry into the service for the same reason
Both of your arguments go back to focusing on the individuals right to serve. The only argument to be made is whether it demonstrably makes our Military better or not. Nobody has any "Right" to serve in the US Mil. Doesn't make a shit who you are.
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Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
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  #96  
Old 27 July 2017, 10:56
Gsniper Gsniper is offline
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I guess things are changing. I remember when it was considered a privilege to serve, but maybe my thinking is just fucked up.
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  #97  
Old 27 July 2017, 10:58
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Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
His use of Twitter is counterproductive and it undermines the administration...it is no way to run a government and plays into the hands of those who are against him. I regret voting for him but couldn't, absolutely couldn't vote for Hillary. I hated the vote and had hoped he would be better and it was all rhetoric for the campaign. I was wrong.
I admire your honesty. You could not have said it better exactly how I feel.
That's true "accountability"... (to one's self).
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  #98  
Old 27 July 2017, 12:20
Keganswar Keganswar is offline
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His use of Twitter is counterproductive and it undermines the administration...it is no way to run a government and plays into the hands of those who are against him. I regret voting for him but couldn't, absolutely couldn't vote for Hillary. I hated the vote and had hoped he would be better and it was all rhetoric for the campaign. I was wrong.
I disagree. The President needs to use the tools at his disposal to get HIS voice heard. Otherwise any message being sent out of the white house would be washed in liberal bias and then sent to the main stream media. His tweets are also a way to connect with the low information voters. Look how many news sources site twitter or quote twitter for news stories all the time. Just the way of the world now so why not capitalize and use the medium to one’s advantage.
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  #99  
Old 27 July 2017, 12:24
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Originally Posted by Keganswar View Post
I disagree. The President needs to use the tools at his disposal to get HIS voice heard. Otherwise any message being sent out of the white house would be washed in liberal bias and then sent to the main stream media. His tweets are also a way to connect with the low information voters. Look how many news sources site twitter or quote twitter for news stories all the time. Just the way of the world now so why not capitalize and use the medium to one’s advantage.
Hogwash. There are a multitude of ways to get a message out, without it being washed in "liberal bias"

It wouldn't be as bad if he didn't write like a 6th grader I suppose, but since he does the man needs someone to craft messages for him, even if eventually it comes from his account.
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  #100  
Old 27 July 2017, 12:45
Keganswar Keganswar is offline
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Hogwash. There are a multitude of ways to get a message out, without it being washed in "liberal bias"

It wouldn't be as bad if he didn't write like a 6th grader I suppose, but since he does the man needs someone to craft messages for him, even if eventually it comes from his account.
Yes that's true. But the low information voter that is on FB and twitter all the time,its an effective way to get the word out.

In word you can check the documents you write to see what grade level they represent. Most should be around a 7th grade level so everyone can understand them, so the Presidents one grade off no one is perfect
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