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  #61  
Old 13 December 2016, 00:07
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Originally Posted by grog18b View Post
I've had lower back problems since 2003. Had some pain meds early on, which took away the higher levels of pain, never made me feel "high" or anything. Just talked more. (The wife says...) After the first surgery didn't work to reduce pain, and after years of PT, trying to strengthen my "core", no pain reduction. I decided that I'd try the med route. Hell, it was either that, or become the west's first suicide bomber. Pain sucks, chronic pain sucks much bad. The only way I can explain the pain I felt every day was, imagine someone hitting you with a ball bat, in the lower back, as hard as they can. That's the pain I felt on waking, and all day. I slept a couple hours at a time. No full nights sleep for 6 years.
The doc tried a few pain meds. I am one of the lucky few that morphine has no effect on. Like taking a tic-tac. Nothing. No "high" no pain reduction at all. One med gave me hives. Nothing worked until the fentynal patch. The doc started me at 50mg/h and that night was the first full night's sleep in six years. I started walking the next day, and dropped 45lbs like it was a rucksack. I ended up walking 12 miles, every other day, with my dogs. After 2 years, the pain caught up, and we ended up upping the dosage to 75mg/h. This gave me another 2 years pain free. The patch never made me feel "high". I felt normal, and could do shit.
Last year, the pain was again catching up with me, so, instead of upping the dosage again, I went in for another surgery. It did reduce the pain, to the point that I could get off the patch. Only "withdrawal" was leg pain. Bad calf pain, and foot pain like diabetic nerve pain, but I am not diabetic. Nerve damage from either the surgery or med use, I dunno.
Medication has its place, and it is up to the individual to determine when it helps, or when it is time to do something else. It is up to the individual to say "I'm not taking this med anymore."
That said, I am addicted to venison sausage and jerky. I'll die addicted.

And How. First hurt off loading M2's from a truck to loading dock.(85) Then bad halo jump in 88. Got worse & worse. I hated sick call. When I absolutely had to go they done all the scans & bullshit. Then only heard medical board. WTF? You think I'm wasting 12 years? I still did the tough jobs, the hardest training. I went to the local hospital ER on weekends so my troopers wouldn't see me as weak. No narcotics in the Army. Just good Ole Ranger 6 pack. (4 beers & 2 motrin) At 20, I had enough. I was hurting and would never ask a trooper to do something I could never do. I saw plenty of that, not me. Besides, I had job offers. First, I had to fix myself. Between 1999-2009 had surgery R. foot w/hardware. 1 surgery L. knee, 2 on R. knee. (Unsuccessful at that) Next step knee transplant. No thanks, I'll limp. L-5, S-1 spinal fusion w/hardware. Everything lumbar is fucked, bulged, herniated or some shit. Now I got something thoracic going on. That's just the military related crap. Not counting the colon & hernia surgies.

I know tough people. Some I wondered if they ever felt pain at all. I'm not one of em, because I needed help. From chemicals. Everyone is different with pain meds. Grog said morphine done him no good. I list it as an allergy because I want to kick someone's ass when I get it. Trust me, I have trashed hospital rooms like Joe Walsh done hotels.

I stopped cold turkey in 2013. No suboxene. I sweat, I chilled. I puked, I shit myself. Sometimes all at the same time. God bless my wife who helped me through this. And it's not over. I've had 2 or 3 surgies since. I was prescribed narcotics. But I took them right. Matter of fact, I didn't even take them all. Maybe I got it licked. Maybe one day I'll say fuck it, I'm tired of hurting and go backwards. It's life. I don't fucking know. But for now I'm ok.

For those of you like me...I recommend a loving wife & a good dog.

Yea. It's my bad. It's about personal responsibility. But, I have a genuine contempt for most doctors. Explaining that would require a post toooo long.
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  #62  
Old 13 December 2016, 10:59
Scapegrace Scapegrace is offline
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Have had 3.5 major surgeries. Knee replacement, ton of stitches/staples, 13 broken bones, etc. Back surgery Saturday. Have taken opioids many times. I consider it a necessary evil and have not allowed it to grab ahold. Taking Oxy and Valium right now. Pain is incredible. Make myself go one day on, one day off. Dread the surgery, but something has to be done. I absolutely REFUSE to let a pill control me.
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  #63  
Old 13 December 2016, 11:46
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Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
Make myself go one day on, one day off. Dread the surgery, but something has to be done. I absolutely REFUSE to let a pill control me.
Just a suggestion and I'm not a doc but what worked for me was taking a half a pill in the morning to get moving with minimal pain, and keep moving throughout the day, then the other half at night.

Going one day on one day off the meds probably isn't going to help you move and heal, that day off, you probably don't wanna do a damn thing but lay there because moving hurts too damn bad.

That said, do what's right for you, no one knows your body and tolerance levels like you do.
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  #64  
Old 13 December 2016, 12:46
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Using the pain meds to make life livable. Have not stopped daily activities except heavy lifting. Two young ones at home so being sedentary is out of the question. Not my nature, anyway.

The days with no pain meds just reinforces my resolve to beat this. Not looking at healing, at all, right now. Once I have the surgery, I will "relax" and begin the healing process. I will take pain meds for 3 days after surgery and then I will quit; regardless of pain. I'll deal with it. Pain at that point is psychological to me since I will have had the problems repaired. Having a high pain tolerance is truly both a blessing and a curse.
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  #65  
Old 13 December 2016, 14:13
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I will share some of what I have learned in 28 years in the ER, and a busted up old man who gets asked 5 times a day "why are you limping like that?"

1) Doctors making money prescribing opioids. Well, yes there are some that do, when I hear this I think immediately of the "pill mills" usually in a strip mall in FL somewhere, where people from as far as Cape Cod drive down and fill prescription for 200-300 OxyContin at a throw. These asshats need to be shut down and thrown in jail. Most of these prescriptions feed the habits of hundreds back at home.

2. Suboxone/Methadone: Yes, it is substituting one addiction for another, BUT it does keep people (some of them) out of jail for heroin, or out of the morgue. I do not understand the limitation on how many patients one Doctor can prescribe Suboxone for (Usually 100). Here in the NE, there are thousands of people wanting Suboxone, that can find no one to prescribe it.

3) Addiction itself, sharing my personal story, my 26 year marriage ended because of my wife's addiction to my pain pills. This went on for years, and for many failed rehabilitation attempts. Then I finally had the light bulb go off while attending an opioid seminar. I learned there are 2 different types of brain chemistries. Mine, who took the pain pills to work, and function, and rarely took an extra pill, because instead of a buzz, I fell asleep. One the other hand, my wife would become energized by more pills. the house was clean and neat, dinner was great, etc. When the pills ran out the house was a mess, I would come home from work to find her in bed feeling "unwell" So the addicted brain responds differently to opioids. Important to know and understand.

4) The current opioid crisis is not new because (IMO) it has moved from the ghetto to middle class America, where it is killing men and women with alarming rates. Every time we got a new heroin dealer in town we would have a spate of fatal overdoses. As it was explained to me by an addict, when a new dealer is in the area, he cuts his product less to make it more potent, and thereby gain the market. Sad but true.

5) Current state of affairs. Now the pendulum has swung the other way, you pretty much have to arrive with an arrow in your chest to be believed that you are actually in pain. I have worked in many states in the NE that now have PMP (prescription monitoring programs) and actually require the MD to document that they checked it to see if the patient recently received narcotics for another MD or source. Even though "pain is the 5th vital sign" it is still one of our worst performing category on Press-Ganey satisfaction surveys.

6) The answer. I honestly believe that it would benefit society to switch heroi addicts to suboxone, or methadone, and reduce the crime, and death that accompany heroin abuse. That said, during a recent narcotics anonymous meeting they surveyed 10 heroin addicts. 7 of ten started by being prescribe OxyContin. I don't have the answers. I wonder if anyone does.

Regards

Medic
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  #66  
Old 13 December 2016, 15:46
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Originally Posted by 57Medic View Post
4) The current opioid crisis is not new because (IMO) it has moved from the ghetto to middle class America, where it is killing men and women with alarming rates. Every time we got a new heroin dealer in town we would have a spate of fatal overdoses. As it was explained to me by an addict, when a new dealer is in the area, he cuts his product less to make it more potent, and thereby gain the market. Sad but true.
Your comments in bold are what alarms me. I have a friend who works with recovering H users back in Akron, and I believe they had, in three weekends alone back in July 2016, 236 overdoses. They say the H is cut with carfentanil, which is - get this - "a wildly powerful opiate commonly used to sedate elephants and rhinoceroses."

My question is why are people turning to H? The simple answer I have is that prescription pain meds have been locked down suddenly and their availability to abusers cut off substantially. H peddlers filled the void, and then additional H peddling "amateurs" cut it with who knows what and who knows how they get it (carfentanil - wtf?) and bam overdose is on the rise.

But why? I don't mean to be crass but when I think H it reminds me of inner cities comparable to Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit, etc...

My good friend "Tricia" lost her 24 yr old stepson to an overdose. Good kid going to a private university in Cleveland, 4.0 grade point avg, had a job, never been in trouble, dies of H overdose? This shit didn't happen when I went to college in 2000.

I mean seriously what are the dynamics driving this fiendish obsession with H?
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  #67  
Old 13 December 2016, 15:56
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Justaclerk Justaclerk is offline
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Originally Posted by Sigi View Post
Your comments in bold are what alarms me. I have a friend who works with recovering H users back in Akron, and I believe they had, in three weekends alone back in July 2016, 236 overdoses. They say the H is cut with carfentanil, which is - get this - "a wildly powerful opiate commonly used to sedate elephants and rhinoceroses."

My question is why are people turning to H? The simple answer I have is that prescription pain meds have been locked down suddenly and their availability to abusers cut off substantially. H peddlers filled the void, and then additional H peddling "amateurs" cut it with who knows what and who knows how they get it (carfentanil - wtf?) and bam overdose is on the rise.

But why? I don't mean to be crass but when I think H it reminds me of inner cities comparable to Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit, etc...

My good friend "Tricia" lost her 24 yr old stepson to an overdose. Good kid going to a private university in Cleveland, 4.0 grade point avg, had a job, never been in trouble, dies of H overdose? This shit didn't happen when I went to college in 2000.

I mean seriously what are the dynamics driving this fiendish obsession with H?
It happens to the best of us, which is why one shouldn't dismiss it as an inner city problem. Which is also why this needs to be confronted head on.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2616003/Mixture-heroin-alcohol-caused-deaths-two-former-U-S-Navy-SEALs-Captain-Phillips-ship.html
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  #68  
Old 13 December 2016, 15:58
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Originally Posted by 57Medic View Post
3) Addiction itself, sharing my personal story, my 26 year marriage ended because of my wife's addiction to my pain pills. This went on for years, and for many failed rehabilitation attempts. Then I finally had the light bulb go off while attending an opioid seminar. I learned there are 2 different types of brain chemistries. Mine, who took the pain pills to work, and function, and rarely took an extra pill, because instead of a buzz, I fell asleep. One the other hand, my wife would become energized by more pills. the house was clean and neat, dinner was great, etc. When the pills ran out the house was a mess, I would come home from work to find her in bed feeling "unwell" So the addicted brain responds differently to opioids. Important to know and understand.
The way it has been explained to me is there is a part of our (my) brain called the limbic system, responsible for pleasure, the instinct to eat and survive, sex drive, even survival. Very strong impulses and drive from this part of the brain. Very strong. So this limbic system that controls vital human instincts also houses addiction. Go fucking figure.

Ever wonder why addicts will sacrifice family relationships, money, jobs, self respect, and even at times subject themselves to dangerous activities that could lead to jail or death? Because that part of the brain drives addiction just as much as it does survival and sex.

So that is what I meant when I said they can tell me the how, but not the why. Everyone has the same exact makeup, we all have the limbic system. Some people either are predisposed to addiction or fucked up that system so bad that they're addicts. I put myself in the latter because excuses don't keep me sober.
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  #69  
Old 13 December 2016, 16:01
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Originally Posted by Sigi View Post
This shit didn't happen when I went to college in 2000.

I mean seriously what are the dynamics driving this fiendish obsession with H?
Quote:
•In 2000, non-Hispanic black persons aged 45–64 had the highest rate for drug-poisoning deaths involving heroin (2.0 per 100,000).

In 2013, non-Hispanic white persons aged 18–44 had the highest rate (7.0 per 100,000).
Lots of factors, number one being fucking boredom. Americans don't struggle for anything at all, there's no adventure, there's no adrenaline rush, boys have been all but neutered, anything of any substance for kids happens in social media, anything that they hear their parents or grandparents did as kids they aren't allowed to do, so they look to anything at all to get any kind of thrill whatsoever out of life - and H never got the stigma that crack did, plus who wants to get all amped up when you can just take a nice nap for a few hours and not think about anything?

Why did so many people of party going age do coke in the 70s and 80s? There was shit to do. Life to be lived, ain't got no damned time for sleep.

Now? Shit man, sleep is a great way to get the fuck away from the nonsense. Who wants to be awake to click on yet another social media outlet?
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  #70  
Old 13 December 2016, 16:01
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The true shithead dealers cut their shit with the super potent drugs to deliberately kill junkies....that's how other junkies know their shit is the heat and they seek it out. Dealers brand their shit just like any other consumer product and this is how they "advertise." S/F....Ken M
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  #71  
Old 13 December 2016, 16:04
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The true shithead dealers cut their shit with the super potent drugs to deliberately kill junkies....
If I were a dealer why would I deliberately kill the people buying my product?
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  #72  
Old 13 December 2016, 16:04
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Heroin is a mystery drug to many who aren't familiar with it. People would be surprised to now how many 50-year-old farmers, painters, plumbers, etc. are arrested with it.

It has crossed all the barriers that crack has. There is no race or gender exempted from its use.
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  #73  
Old 13 December 2016, 16:05
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If I were a dealer why would I deliberately kill the people buying my product?
Fear of buying theirs drives them to his....
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  #74  
Old 13 December 2016, 17:56
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SOW_0331 SOW_0331 is offline
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If I were a dealer why would I deliberately kill the people buying my product?
Because if you're putting out something so potent that enough people are dying from it to make the news, you're putting out some shit that will get addicts high as fuck. I think a lot of street grade users are more concerned with using their last $20 on a shot that doesn't get them high than they are with buying a shot that kills them.

From what I can tell, every time this kind of thing happens, the majority of people who die are the users who have lost their old lives and are living on the street or in shelters, or they're the really young inexperienced kids (college students) who have no idea what what they're getting. These are the ones buying this shit and they may be loyal customers but they're not the target market. Dealers are trying to get the interest of the huge market of users who are seeing their pet drugs (Oxy, Vicodin, etc) dry up and become unavailable. These are the potential customers who are waiting for that perfect product to jump from their old habits and chase the high they got the first time. And these are the ones who haven't destroyed their entire lives yet...the ones with REAL money.

I count myself lucky every day that I have two amazing daughters that saved me from this shit, and a brotherhood that got me back from that hole.
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  #75  
Old 13 December 2016, 18:48
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Massgrunt Massgrunt is offline
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If I were a dealer why would I deliberately kill the people buying my product?
Fatal ODs are good advertising. Sounds ridiculous but it's true. Also, there are no recreational heroin users.
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  #76  
Old 13 December 2016, 19:20
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Damn. Jaded as I am didn't think of that angle. Thanks, gents.
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  #77  
Old 13 December 2016, 19:35
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Fatal ODs are good advertising. Sounds ridiculous but it's true.
Wow. That's so horrible.
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  #78  
Old 13 December 2016, 19:46
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Also, there are no recreational heroin users.
I don't have a ton to contribute to this thread, but I will disagree with this. One of my best friends was a heroin (and oxy) user for several years, from about age 18-25. Nailed damn near a 4.0 at a top 25 university while working to support himself, and now makes far more than I do at tech firm. No doubt that's not a common ending to heroin use, but it happened.
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  #79  
Old 13 December 2016, 20:16
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Atrax - I have known guys that could pretty much do any drug because they liked to party and it never took control of their lives. Maybe a different mindset with those type of people than those who become entangled?

I also have a niece that caught up with oxy and heroin and was heading down a very dark path but chose to get clean. She has been off it for several months and from what I understand doing well with her recovery. I know she has a long row to hoe but hopefully she saw the "light" and avoid the relapse.

This thread has been very enlightening and I appreciate all of you that have shared.
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  #80  
Old 13 December 2016, 20:28
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I'm of two mindsets:

1. Sounds like a self-cleaning oven effect. Up the purity on the shit and let nature take its course.

2. Bring the DEA back to its roots: 50% of the budget is for recovery programs, and the other 50% is to go after the dealers. Hard. We know where these f*ckers are, and we know who the addicts are. Start using Narcam on the addicts and squeeze them for information on the supply chain.

Once we get "ISIL in a Box", we'll need a new hobby. Might as well go after the logistics infrastructure. Hard.
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