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  #41  
Old 20 November 2017, 14:57
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Mingo Kane Mingo Kane is offline
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The Native Americans had a great saying: "Only when the last tree is cut down, when the last fish is caught and eaten, when the last of our animals are butchered...only then will humans realize, we cannot eat money or gold."
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  #42  
Old 20 November 2017, 14:58
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by Keganswar View Post
This Tool came out a few years ago. Needless to say there are many many ways around the US government tracking the currency at this time.
But for complete anonymity wouldn't it require methods that are just not readily accessible or even preferential to the common schlub? Suzie Starbucks isn't going to log into a VPN to get on a TOR browser to find some random a dark/deep web site that will facilitate a simple transaction, dodging CP links the whole way. I just don't think it's very viable unless the big 3 things take BTC --- Utility companies, Grocery stores, and Gas Stations. Until then, you'd still need a way to convert your BTC fiat into USD. And from what I understand that is where they get you. When you convert USD to BTC, and BTC back to USD when you need to pay an actual bill. The entry/exit points. It might be useful for limited transactions of commodities that have very liquid convertibility (i.e. BTC for bullion), but wide-scale use is, as of now, not feasible as a truly alternative currency. And it most certainly isn't a long term store of wealth.
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  #43  
Old 20 November 2017, 14:59
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Originally Posted by B 2/75 View Post
If we went nation-wide grid-down, and it lasted at least a week or two, then yes, I'd say you'd no longer have to pay your mortgage. Whatever you'd have to pay for afterward would likely be in the form of barter.
I expect that the banks and the banking system do a much better job of recording how much you owe them (mortgages, car loans, credit cards, etc) than they do keeping track of how much they owe you. If the grid goes down, they may lose track of how much you had in your savings account, but they will know how much you owe on your mortgage.
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Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
The whole concept that you're going to walk around and trade in gold during a "grid down" situation is laughable. You'll last a few days and then it's game over.
Short term: Mainly cash; $100s, $20s, etc
Long-term: Usable items such as bullets, food, gasoline, etc.
Long-term recovery: Gold, copper, etc. They are only important when the economy is being rebuilt.
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Originally Posted by Keganswar View Post
As far as gold and silver go. If the world goes to shit. I have dozens of bottles of alcohol that will be worth far more to people then a brick of gold.
"We deal in lead, friend"
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  #44  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:00
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Simplest answer: it's the answer to a math problem. You sign your computer up to do math. The answer to the math problem is used as a form of digital currency. Its value fluctuates wildly, and they become more difficult to compute over time.
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  #45  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:02
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingo Kane View Post
The Native Americans had a great saying: "Only when the last tree is cut down, when the last fish is caught and eaten, when the last of our animals are butchered...only then will humans realize, we cannot eat money or gold."
Fortunately for us trees grow back, fish and animals repopulate, and money is simply a method for storing the time and energy spent to perform a task. And IIRC, the Indians aren't exactly innocent of ecological disasters to prop up foolhardy boondoggles.
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  #46  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:05
Shark0311 Shark0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
So, from what I'm seeing the bitcoin could be just as valid as "money" as a VISA card was in the early 1960's. Except maybe even moreso, since it's global.
The difference is that the foundation of credit is that it is based upon the value of fiat currency.

Bitcoin is a virtual commodity that can be exchanged through various marketplaces. Would you make a $10 dollar purchase now if you could speculate that your $10 dollars will be worth $12 if you wait a day? Would you accept and hold bitcoin as a merchant or convert it to currency?

Big money investors have inflated the value of bitcoin to make money and the trend is continuing for now. If played correctly it's possible to make a lot of money. Just don't loose the hard-drive with your bitcoin wallet or ride the train when it goes off the rails.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4543488/Man-throws-Bitcoin-hard-drive-worth-4-8billion.html
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  #47  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:10
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It doesn't have to be an EMP that takes us down... what if, for example, that bug in Mozambique gets out and runs rampant? I'm just using that one as an example, it could be this winter's flu virus that is particularly nasty and the folks who crapshoot the vaccine every year miss the target by a wide margin... 1918 > 2018. Who's gonna go to work to keep the grid humming when folks are dropping like flies? Not me... that's for damn sure.

When the trucks stop coming to the local grocery, shit's gonna get bad. Fast. Give it a few days and we'll be tearing ourselves to pieces. A few weeks or a month or more, and it's all but game over. Reset Button pushed. All the bitcoin or gold in the world won't do you much good if you can't survive the next year.
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  #48  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:14
Keganswar Keganswar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
But for complete anonymity wouldn't it require methods that are just not readily accessible or even preferential to the common schlub? Suzie Starbucks isn't going to log into a VPN to get on a TOR browser to find some random a dark/deep web site that will facilitate a simple transaction, dodging CP links the whole way. I just don't think it's very viable unless the big 3 things take BTC --- Utility companies, Grocery stores, and Gas Stations. Until then, you'd still need a way to convert your BTC fiat into USD. And from what I understand that is where they get you. When you convert USD to BTC, and BTC back to USD when you need to pay an actual bill. The entry/exit points. It might be useful for limited transactions of commodities that have very liquid convertibility (i.e. BTC for bullion), but wide-scale use is, as of now, not feasible as a truly alternative currency. And it most certainly isn't a long term store of wealth.
You are correct that is were they can get you.
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  #49  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:21
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Ole crusty bastard Ole crusty bastard is offline
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If you can afford to invest there should be priorities, the first on that list, for me, is ammo. When the world turns to shit, all the cash, bitcoins, or even gold, adds up to nothing.
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  #50  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:22
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Mingo Kane Mingo Kane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Fortunately for us trees grow back, fish and animals repopulate, and money is simply a method for storing the time and energy spent to perform a task. And IIRC, the Indians aren't exactly innocent of ecological disasters to prop up foolhardy boondoggles.
No Sir, not by a long shot.
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  #51  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:26
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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All I know is I'd love to have a home and be able to pay for the allodial title with BTC to really fuck the man. All the food and water and solar power won't mean shit if the assholes decide to jack up your property tax to unsustainable levels.
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  #52  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Suzie Starbucks....
Check it out...yeah, there's an app for that.

Quote:
Dec 23, 2016 - US Bitcoin payment gateway iPayYou has announced direct Starbucks integration for Bitcoin users. Customers using the Starbucks mobile app can now use iPayYou to purchase items directly using Bitcoin with the automated conversion of funds to USD.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/starb...ou-integration
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  #53  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:36
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Originally Posted by Ole crusty bastard View Post
If you can afford to invest there should be priorities, the first on that list, for me, is ammo. When the world turns to shit, all the cash, bitcoins, or even gold, adds up to nothing.
Yup. 22LR is easy to carry, can't be reloaded, etc. supply/demand/price.
Just about every family has one (where I'm from).

Hell it's scarce enough now the price is ridiculous.

Last edited by Tycon; 20 November 2017 at 15:43.
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  #54  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:50
Jong Jong is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
Yup. 22LR is easy to carry, can't be reloaded, etc. supply/demand/price.
Just about every family has one (where I'm from).

Hell it's scarce enough now the price is ridiculous.
22LR is scarce? I don't seem to have a problem finding it anymore.
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  #55  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:58
Shark0311 Shark0311 is offline
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The other side to bitcoin is the mining thereof. The algorithm creates scarcity by limiting the rate of discovery based on the numbers of computations over time.

Imagine if you are the richest man in the world and own a network of data centers and a large online marketplace. Why not invest in bitcoin, task idle servers to mine it (based on energy costs) and get paid on both ends...
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  #56  
Old 20 November 2017, 15:58
SteveEx SteveEx is offline
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I can say that I am completely willing to and have accepted bitcoins for legal services. Once the bitcoins have been exchanged for USD that is...

My favorite quote about bitcoins:

"the best part about bitcoins is that you get to watch libertarians slowly discover why financial regulations exist to begin with" —@porn_horse[1]

There are way to many scams and lack of any sort of protection for me to be willing to invest in bitcoins. Hell with the web and all you can't even know who scammed you or stole your coins so shooting them isn't even an option.
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  #57  
Old 20 November 2017, 16:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jong View Post
I totally admit I'm an amateur and just basing my opinion on what I have read and looking through history of the stock market. I'm curious, have you predicted the previous stock market crashes?
The difference here is that I never claimed I did.
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  #58  
Old 20 November 2017, 16:20
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I love when people make money and get rich. It's why I'm hired to do what I do. But don't get caught holding the bag on this stuff. Whoever is left without a chair at the end of the song is going to get burned. At current prices this isn't a poor man's game. One of the issues I have is that there is no way to value this stuff. I can't look at corporate earnings or future possible earnings to see what's likely to happen. But if you choose to buy in, be careful.
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  #59  
Old 20 November 2017, 16:21
Gsniper Gsniper is online now
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I don't have bitcoin. I have a mental block about virtual things, even though I know hard currency is basically virtual at this point. I did my prep in sequence:

Ability to defend myself
Ability to heat/water myself
Ability to feed myself short term
Ability to feed myself long term
Tangible assets for buy/barter (primarily ammo and gold/silver)

Quote:
I have dozens of bottles of alcohol that will be worth far more to people then a brick of gold.
The ability to produce said alcohol is precious. Not that I would know anything about that.
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  #60  
Old 20 November 2017, 16:41
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Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
. . . S N I P . . .

The ability to produce said alcohol is precious. Not that I would know anything about that.
Sez the SWVA Mountain Man....
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