Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > The Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 15 December 2017, 13:00
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 1,025
Thank you Hot Mess and CAVMedic! So, what they would do then? Just accept it or secretly monitor that person? I don't live in the U.S. but reading and hearing about what NSA and its peers are capable of makes me wonder about whether these people really care for the rules your Constitution outlines?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 15 December 2017, 13:02
CAVmedic CAVmedic is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mid West
Posts: 1,042
I think most of us would care a bit less if online pedophile rings and drug cartels were being dismantled by the dozens in cities across America weekly, but that's not the case. A big part of this is about political control and deep state blackmail, plain and fucking simple.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 15 December 2017, 13:06
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 1,025
Thanks! I suppose that's the name of the game almost everywhere in the world. After all, government agencies are all working their own angles, same as any other crew (I must stop quoting gangster movies )
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 15 December 2017, 13:09
Agoge's Avatar
Agoge Agoge is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 6,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul85 View Post
The argumentation on the side of the authorities could be as follows: If you have nothing to hide, why do you hide? A catch-22.
The "nothing-to-hide" theory is based on prosecutions and investigations which is how much of the public is viewing this from. They don't stop to realize that regardless of those issues, their information is getting caught up in the dragnet and placed in databases that may one day cause them to be "investigated" for no other reason than their name or number was associated with something or someone in a bad way. Could have been a wrong number that dialed you and you spoke to the caller for a minute or two. Now, you are an associate of said bad actor.

If you haven't done anything to rightfully deserve being investigated, you shouldn't want your information in any databases.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 15 December 2017, 13:14
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7,062
MOST people are just concerned that their stupid Netflix brain-rot shows are going to become more expensive and they'll have to pay extra to stream John Oliver to let them know what to think that week. Vast majority don't have the mental capability to understand abstract concepts such as the importance of having unfettered access to places to discuss alternative ideas and seemingly 'counter culture' ideas.

If anyone remembers Larry Grathwohl's interview when he talked about the time he infiltrated the Weather Underground as an FBI informant, you'll remember the part where he said the Weather Underground's primary concern after the hypothetical 'win' in the USA would be to protect their new communist government from what they referred to as the "counter revolution". The CR was their greatest fear as their role of underdog guerilla movement transitioned to legitimate government.

This extreme censorship is the left panicking and removing all the avenues they believe the Trumpsters took to achieve victory. The alt media. The youtube. The facebook. The "fake news". Muh Russia. Muh black voters. Muh racist white women. They were blaming literally everyone and everything after the election in a mass 'tism fit of biblical proportions. Now they've calmed down a bit and are destroying the 'alt right' (remember that name before it became associated with tiki torches by the MSM??) places of propagating ideas and messages.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 15 December 2017, 13:31
Believeraz's Avatar
Believeraz Believeraz is offline
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tilting at Windmills
Posts: 2,541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
The "nothing-to-hide" theory is based on prosecutions and investigations which is how much of the public is viewing this from. They don't stop to realize that regardless of those issues, their information is getting caught up in the dragnet and placed in databases that may one day cause them to be "investigated" for no other reason than their name or number was associated with something or someone in a bad way. Could have been a wrong number that dialed you and you spoke to the caller for a minute or two. Now, you are an associate of said bad actor.

If you haven't done anything to rightfully deserve being investigated, you shouldn't want your information in any databases.
Not to mention the ol' "who cares/ we aren't going to use it in court, just for background" attitude of certain fedLE agencies.
__________________
_________________

"Butch up, prom queen"
-Wench
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 15 December 2017, 13:40
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7,062
**coughPARALLELCONSTRUCTIONcough**
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 15 December 2017, 13:52
DB8541 DB8541 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 862
This is the real world version of the movie Minority report but instead of some made up psychic future telling they will use Data gathered from your digital profile to make an arrest for crimes against the state.

The premise is already in place with this program and the leap to arresting U.S. civilians for anything that goes against the gate keepers views is just waiting for the right administration to enforce it real time, in the open and not in the shadows.

I had posted on the Net neutrality thread that it might be time to unplug from just about everything and it might be long overdue.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 15 December 2017, 14:06
mdwest's Avatar
mdwest mdwest is offline
Über Equus Asinus
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: here
Posts: 2,608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Believeraz View Post
I wish I were surprised.
^^^ this ^^^

I find it sad that this doesnt surprise me at all..

Just more confirmation of what we've known for a long time...
__________________
There are no stupid questions... There are however a lot of inquisitive morons..
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 15 December 2017, 14:40
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by DB8541 View Post
This is the real world version of the movie Minority report but instead of some made up psychic future telling they will use Data gathered from your digital profile to make an arrest for crimes against the state.

The premise is already in place with this program and the leap to arresting U.S. civilians for anything that goes against the gate keepers views is just waiting for the right administration to enforce it real time, in the open and not in the shadows.

I had posted on the Net neutrality thread that it might be time to unplug from just about everything and it might be long overdue.
I would say the psychology is already being primed. With every shooting or event that's occurred the first thing people rush to is the social media accounts of the individual named. And usually after that is either "nothing indicated he was capable of this" or "OMG there were signs everywhere why did no one stop him!".

The inevitable baited response is some LE agency saying "we can certainly monitor but we cannot arrest people for things that they have not done yet....[long pause for effect]..... as of now"

And FWIW, I think foreigners who say shit online under their real name need to be booted the fuck out of this country. Citizens are afforded the rights enshrined in the Constitution to NOT be summarily punished for freedom of speech. However, keeping a close eye on people who are, ahem, "at risk" of quickly becoming an imminent threat is prudent (within reason). The amount of the latter would always be open for debate, depending on circumstances of course. But someone screaming aloha snackbar shit, as an example, and talking about how we all need to convert to Islam or die shouldn't exactly be ignored.

The obvious danger of this is becoming like the friggin UK or Germany, with their bullshit leftist 1984 shit ---- jailing people who teach their gf's pug, as a joke, to "Seig Heil" upon command. Ideally the immediate neighborhood community affected would/should grow a fucking backbone and 'take care of the problem' themselves --- with the local LE declaring the two bullet holes in the back of his head of wannabe Al-Sadr's burned out house a "tragic suicide". The societal immune system allowed to flourish like it did in the old days........but if wishes were ponies we'd all ride like kings.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 15 December 2017, 18:20
MakoZeroSix's Avatar
MakoZeroSix MakoZeroSix is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 7,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
I would say the psychology is already being primed. With every shooting or event that's occurred the first thing people rush to is the social media accounts of the individual named. And usually after that is either "nothing indicated he was capable of this" or "OMG there were signs everywhere why did no one stop him!".

The inevitable baited response is some LE agency saying "we can certainly monitor but we cannot arrest people for things that they have not done yet....[long pause for effect]..... as of now"

And FWIW, I think foreigners who say shit online under their real name need to be booted the fuck out of this country. Citizens are afforded the rights enshrined in the Constitution to NOT be summarily punished for freedom of speech. However, keeping a close eye on people who are, ahem, "at risk" of quickly becoming an imminent threat is prudent (within reason). The amount of the latter would always be open for debate, depending on circumstances of course. But someone screaming aloha snackbar shit, as an example, and talking about how we all need to convert to Islam or die shouldn't exactly be ignored.

The obvious danger of this is becoming like the friggin UK or Germany, with their bullshit leftist 1984 shit ---- jailing people who teach their gf's pug, as a joke, to "Seig Heil" upon command. Ideally the immediate neighborhood community affected would/should grow a fucking backbone and 'take care of the problem' themselves --- with the local LE declaring the two bullet holes in the back of his head of wannabe Al-Sadr's burned out house a "tragic suicide". The societal immune system allowed to flourish like it did in the old days........but if wishes were ponies we'd all ride like kings.
Have you ever considered that the psychology is already "primed" because a vast majority of people already think they are under constant surviellance by an invisible man that lives in the sky who is going to straight up judge you for every transgression, no matter how small?

If they are comfortable with him knowing what they masturbate to on XHamster, it's not much of a jump to going meh when the knowledge that some weary GS-11 in some basement in Maryland has knowledge, or more likely just potential knowledge of the same.
__________________
Quote:
there’s nothing in our country anymore that seems to suggest that selfless service to the nation is not only appropriate, but required.”
- General John F. Kelley
19 Oct 2017
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 15 December 2017, 18:46
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoZeroSix View Post
Have you ever considered that the psychology is already "primed" because a vast majority of people already think they are under constant surviellance by an invisible man that lives in the sky who is going to straight up judge you for every transgression, no matter how small?

If they are comfortable with him knowing what they masturbate to on XHamster, it's not much of a jump to going meh when the knowledge that some weary GS-11 in some basement in Maryland has knowledge, or more likely just potential knowledge of the same.
Not even in the slightest. For comparison The atmosphere of Colonial America and the men of the Continental Congress, those who literally wrote our Constitution, was indisputably more devout/pious/etc (by several orders of magnitude) than anything we have today. Hell, we have a Primetime TV show called "Lucifer" where the star is Satan himself. So "vast majority"? No. Not by a long shot. In any case, people who literally believed in a divine eye of God watching over every one were the same ones who crafted the 4th Amendment. Who shot redcoats for, among such other things, as writs of assistance and general warrants. Which sound a lot similar to how I hear the Patriot Act warrants are created

If those gentlemen can be accustomed to an all-watchful deity watching over them and still value their privacy to the point of drafting into our govt a measure explicitly forbidding themselves (the govt) from practicing such activities, then I'd imagine that with the levels of atheist/agnostic people we'd be seeing the exact opposite. We'd see hundreds of thousands of people marching in the streets because that worn-out GS11 is cataloging their Sumatran midget porn collection.

The problem is apathy. Pure and simple.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 15 December 2017, 19:02
MakoZeroSix's Avatar
MakoZeroSix MakoZeroSix is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 7,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Not even in the slightest. For comparison The atmosphere of Colonial America and the men of the Continental Congress, those who literally wrote our Constitution, was indisputably more devout/pious/etc (by several orders of magnitude) than anything we have today. Hell, we have a Primetime TV show called "Lucifer" where the star is Satan himself. So "vast majority"? No. Not by a long shot. In any case, people who literally believed in a divine eye of God watching over every one were the same ones who crafted the 4th Amendment. Who shot redcoats for, among such other things, as writs of assistance and general warrants. Which sound a lot similar to how I hear the Patriot Act warrants are created

If those gentlemen can be accustomed to an all-watchful deity watching over them and still value their privacy to the point of drafting into our govt a measure explicitly forbidding themselves (the govt) from practicing such activities, then I'd imagine that with the levels of atheist/agnostic people we'd be seeing the exact opposite. We'd see hundreds of thousands of people marching in the streets because that worn-out GS11 is cataloging their Sumatran midget porn collection.

The problem is apathy. Pure and simple.
Wow, you must not know a lot of religious people.

It's a good point, but the right to due process isn't the same as surveillance. Nobody is being arrested on the basis of NSA surveillance of mundane activities. The idea of constant human surveillance would have been utterly incomprehensible to the Founding Fathers, although they would have obviously found it destestable.

And while the amount of athiest/agnostics has increased, there are countless millions of people who believe even more stridently in ultra-Christianity than one could argue the relatively secular folks who wrote the Constitution were. If they were like the evangelicals who pack churches the size of football stadiums in Texas, they would have straight up made Christianity our state religion but they didn't.

Just because debauched non-Christians control the entertainment industry really has nothing to do with the overall faith level of the country.
__________________
Quote:
there’s nothing in our country anymore that seems to suggest that selfless service to the nation is not only appropriate, but required.”
- General John F. Kelley
19 Oct 2017
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 15 December 2017, 19:06
CV's Avatar
CV CV is offline
Ungood
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: US
Posts: 7,493
Cross-thread points for why the mechanisms for enforcing Net Neutrality would require a very power State. We're being a sold bags of shit and the worst part is many are in turn helping the government sell it further.

Really great share, SB. Thank you for the read.
__________________
It's a hipster filter. Keeps your kind out. -Jimbo
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 15 December 2017, 19:32
foxcolt13 foxcolt13 is offline
Moving Target
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVmedic View Post
If I want to beat off to 2 chicks on a double dong, or furry stuff or whatever, there's a huge difference between doing it alone in my bedroom and doing it knowing somebody is looking over my shoulder.
I like when people watch
__________________
Lost one to lost three......are you lost too.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 15 December 2017, 19:34
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7,062
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoZeroSix View Post
Wow, you must not know a lot of religious people.

It's a good point, but the right to due process isn't the same as surveillance. Nobody is being arrested on the basis of NSA surveillance of mundane activities. The idea of constant human surveillance would have been utterly incomprehensible to the Founding Fathers, although they would have obviously found it destestable.

And while the amount of athiest/agnostics has increased, there are countless millions of people who believe even more stridently in ultra-Christianity than one could argue the relatively secular folks who wrote the Constitution were. If they were like the evangelicals who pack churches the size of football stadiums in Texas, they would have straight up made Christianity our state religion but they didn't.

Just because debauched non-Christians control the entertainment industry really has nothing to do with the overall faith level of the country.
I'm in the middle of Mormon country. The only other place I can go to get more Christian religious is Amish or Mennonite country. And I've been to Joel Osteen's church on several occasions back in Htown. They're less 'religious' than they are just a Tony Robbins pep-talk with an occasional psalm thrown in here and there.

And you are right, regardless of the culture shock the Founders would have if they were dragged into the 21st Century, they would soon find it to be absolutely repugnant and disgusting once they got past the wonder and splendor that our nation is guilded with. I'd imagine they'd probably weep at what their greatest creation was twisted into. What their friends died for. What they were willing to sacrifice their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor for.

FWIW, it's a common misconception that the founders were 'secular' in the modern sense of the word. The ONLY reason there is a Freedom OF religion in the USA (and not freedom FROM religion) is because they didn't want the Catholic vs Protestant bullshit that engulfed Europe to make it's way here. That is the only reason. They still often spoke of drawing inspiration and divine providence from the words of the bible and standard Christian teachings/morals/values.

The John Hagee religious fundamentalists/Neocon fuckstains are a creation of the modern era. An equal and opposite reaction to the 'godlessness' sweeping the nation since the end of WWI (coincidentally around the same time as the Frankfurt school showed up on the scene). They don't even know what the bible even says, they just gobble up whatever that fat fuck hagee screeches into the microphone and take it at face value. That's not 'religion'. I'll say it before and I stand by my assertion that NeoCons are nothing but Trotskyites.....and Lefitsts are Stalinists. Neither group represents the liberty and ideals espoused by our founding men.

But to close the loop, it's not because of "god" and that stupid 'rendering unto Caesar' line the statists love to quote.....it's because they're fucking stupid and apathetic to pretty much everything not explicitly spelled out for them by FoxNews. They're the people on the perpetual up-hill slope of the Intellectual Bell-curve. The kind of people extremely susceptible to falling victim to group-preference behavior. The "go along to get along" types. The luke warm glasses of water. Who stand for nothing, so they'll lay down for anything. As long as 'everyone else is doing it'. And it has nothing to do with religion. I am a Christian. I don't go to church, but I believe that the Son of God is Jesus Christ. And all that.......

No where in Christianity is it anywhere even remotely suggested that people have to put up with tyranny just because God 'watches' us and that we will someday have to account for our actions before him. No where. The only place that crap is presented as scripture is in the Scofield bible bullshit that is the product of 'subversive influences' that have been attacking every facet of this nation's culture since the beginning of 20th century.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 16 December 2017, 13:50
MakoZeroSix's Avatar
MakoZeroSix MakoZeroSix is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 7,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
I'm in the middle of Mormon country. The only other place I can go to get more Christian religious is Amish or Mennonite country. And I've been to Joel Osteen's church on several occasions back in Htown. They're less 'religious' than they are just a Tony Robbins pep-talk with an occasional psalm thrown in here and there.

And you are right, regardless of the culture shock the Founders would have if they were dragged into the 21st Century, they would soon find it to be absolutely repugnant and disgusting once they got past the wonder and splendor that our nation is guilded with. I'd imagine they'd probably weep at what their greatest creation was twisted into. What their friends died for. What they were willing to sacrifice their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor for.

FWIW, it's a common misconception that the founders were 'secular' in the modern sense of the word. The ONLY reason there is a Freedom OF religion in the USA (and not freedom FROM religion) is because they didn't want the Catholic vs Protestant bullshit that engulfed Europe to make it's way here. That is the only reason. They still often spoke of drawing inspiration and divine providence from the words of the bible and standard Christian teachings/morals/values.

The John Hagee religious fundamentalists/Neocon fuckstains are a creation of the modern era. An equal and opposite reaction to the 'godlessness' sweeping the nation since the end of WWI (coincidentally around the same time as the Frankfurt school showed up on the scene). They don't even know what the bible even says, they just gobble up whatever that fat fuck hagee screeches into the microphone and take it at face value. That's not 'religion'. I'll say it before and I stand by my assertion that NeoCons are nothing but Trotskyites.....and Lefitsts are Stalinists. Neither group represents the liberty and ideals espoused by our founding men.

But to close the loop, it's not because of "god" and that stupid 'rendering unto Caesar' line the statists love to quote.....it's because they're fucking stupid and apathetic to pretty much everything not explicitly spelled out for them by FoxNews. They're the people on the perpetual up-hill slope of the Intellectual Bell-curve. The kind of people extremely susceptible to falling victim to group-preference behavior. The "go along to get along" types. The luke warm glasses of water. Who stand for nothing, so they'll lay down for anything. As long as 'everyone else is doing it'. And it has nothing to do with religion. I am a Christian. I don't go to church, but I believe that the Son of God is Jesus Christ. And all that.......

No where in Christianity is it anywhere even remotely suggested that people have to put up with tyranny just because God 'watches' us and that we will someday have to account for our actions before him. No where. The only place that crap is presented as scripture is in the Scofield bible bullshit that is the product of 'subversive influences' that have been attacking every facet of this nation's culture since the beginning of 20th century.
Are you ever able to discuss something rationally without literally every response devolving into an unhinged rant?
__________________
Quote:
there’s nothing in our country anymore that seems to suggest that selfless service to the nation is not only appropriate, but required.”
- General John F. Kelley
19 Oct 2017
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 16 December 2017, 16:09
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7,062
I didn't think that was a rant. Just a bit longer to explain my point. I am lacking in brevity some(most) times I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 16 December 2017, 16:44
DB8541 DB8541 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoZeroSix View Post
If they are comfortable with him knowing what they masturbate to on XHamster, it's not much of a jump to going meh when the knowledge that some weary GS-11 in some basement in Maryland has knowledge, or more likely just potential knowledge of the same.

My concern is not what type of porn they know you watch but what type of politics do you buy into. We already have issues with Government officials using their position to push a political agenda while actively using their authority to hinder, harm, and discredit the U.S. citizens they do not agree with on the left and right.

In the last few years the IRS, EPA, DOJ, FBI and others I am sure, have all had problems with putting aside personal beliefs while in official positions during the execution of their jobs and some of them have done so openly, this is a big problem in a free state.

Maybe it was always this way but it seems to be boiling up to a pretty clear three way divided split within our government, the Left, the Right and those just trying to do their jobs in a professional nonpolitical way. When the percentages of the Left or the Right advocators builds to a lopsided share, we are in trouble, are we there now? I do not know but I would suspect we are close.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 16 December 2017, 17:22
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Gdynia, Poland
Posts: 1,025
I discovered that if you separate yourself and try to stay neutral you're often accused as being spineless by both sides....or as being the other side in disguise.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:22.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET