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  #41  
Old 16 December 2017, 23:42
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Personally, IMO, the lines between a govt entity and a private entity are becoming more and more blurred every day. I always used to think that the whole "corporations, like, OWN the govt maaaaaaaan" was nothing but smelly hippie talk. And my cognitive dissonance forced me to ignore the words of Smedly Butler all those years ago.

When the corporations are actively enabling and HELPING our govt in violating our rights to each other's mutual benefit I start to see less of a meaningful distinction between the two. Private companies are simply violating our constitutional rights FOR the Govt. It's a technicality. Some legal trickery designed to fool us plebes who still believe that there is some invisible line between the two. It's the same as the FVEY stuff. NSA goes to GCHQ and says 'voluntarily give us all the data we want on American citizens'. GCHQ says 'Here ya go!'. Replace GCHQ with the word "Google" (or FB or Microsoft) and it's exactly the same thing. And there should be no less of an outrage. Even more so since it's our own citizenry colluding with tyrannical elements hostile to the Constitution. In DD's Commentaries on the Law of America, that's fucking treason to the Constitution. Same as if certain people in our govt were giving weapons to our enem.....er, oh wait.
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  #42  
Old 17 December 2017, 01:17
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The larger issue is the collection of blackmail materials by the permanent government employee class for use vs any elected or other officials who may be acting on voter/citizen pressure to "drain the swamp." S/F....Ken M
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  #43  
Old 18 December 2017, 02:28
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Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
No, not in the US. That’s not how our Constitution was written.
Come on, brother. Really?

Since when has the Constitution protected anyone that the Government really wanted to go after? The way it was written (not as a living document) wouldn't allow for any of the nonsense we're seeing today. Yet that hasn't stopped anyone.

I'll give you that the Feds at least need to go to a FISA court...who then signs off on an obscure request without any public accountability. So a secret court (unconstitutional) signs off on a now legal order, which now allows members of the IC to conduct unconstitutional acts against American citizens to "safeguard the nation"?

As Matchanu used to say "my head's full of fuck". NSA didn't build the data center in Utah to collect metadata for anything other than retroactive data-mining, which will map out every relationship for review. It's not a stretch from there for them to decide that all people who're using VPN should undergo further scrutiny because Abu Durka once used one as well.

And what's good for everyday citizen now also happens to anyone trying to loosen the irongrip of those agencies. Look at how things are playing out for the Clintons vs the Trumps. One's a family of Apparatchiks the other a budding Oligarchy intent on shredding them. Only one of those groups is being prosecuted with complete disregard for facts or law.

We're heading towards a clearly Orwellian future, IMO.
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  #44  
Old 18 December 2017, 04:10
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Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
Come on, brother. Really?

Since when has the Constitution protected anyone that the Government really wanted to go after? The way it was written (not as a living document) wouldn't allow for any of the nonsense we're seeing today. Yet that hasn't stopped anyone.

I'll give you that the Feds at least need to go to a FISA court...who then signs off on an obscure request without any public accountability. So a secret court (unconstitutional) signs off on a now legal order, which now allows members of the IC to conduct unconstitutional acts against American citizens to "safeguard the nation"?

As Matchanu used to say "my head's full of fuck". NSA didn't build the data center in Utah to collect metadata for anything other than retroactive data-mining, which will map out every relationship for review. It's not a stretch from there for them to decide that all people who're using VPN should undergo further scrutiny because Abu Durka once used one as well.

And what's good for everyday citizen now also happens to anyone trying to loosen the irongrip of those agencies. Look at how things are playing out for the Clintons vs the Trumps. One's a family of Apparatchiks the other a budding Oligarchy intent on shredding them. Only one of those groups is being prosecuted with complete disregard for facts or law.

We're heading towards a clearly Orwellian future, IMO.
It is a fact that any traffic using encryption that cannot be decrypted on the fly is automatically shunted to a "technical database" for later scrutiny. NSA assumes that any encrypted data merits closer scrutiny.

Mr. Binney has already discussed the 100 data points where Naris devices suction up all domestic net traffic. Those devices are not mounted on the East and West coast of the US, as they would be if they were pointed at international traffic entering the US. They are pointed at the American people, and at our data within CONUS.

When the former Technical Director of NSA emphasizes this, we have to pay attention. He is one of the architects of the current collection systems.

He resigned in 2001 because he perceived that NSA was collecting against AMCITs. He filed an IG complaint over it. His reward was getting SWATTED at 0'Dark Thirty one morning, and suspension of his security clearances.

This is how we treat our patriots.
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  #45  
Old 18 December 2017, 04:50
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Quote:
NSA assumes that any encrypted data merits closer scrutiny.
So my earlier comment seems to be valid.
It would be IMO pretty surprising to read or hear otherwise, as encrypted traffic that cannot be classified as a legit VPN (for example P2P VPN between public IPs of a company that has offices dispersed around country or world) is usually put into one wide bag of encrypted tunnels, then it's scrutinized and if need arises it is put in another bag where pros try to dismantle it and capture unencrypted packets or there is an effort to try and check the endpoint locations for physical and logical evidence. Some business-class civilian encrypting devices require filing an appropiate form with our intelligence agencies - don't know if that's the case in the U.S.?. As to the U.S. and NSA - given the capability of the NSA and backdoors they probably have my take would be that they are able to decrypt and analyze almost everything. After all, I suppose they get the best toys and top talent? I do think that they do it out of patriotism too, don't all intelligence agencies do it for the greater good? Problem is usually in defining what that "good" is, as I see it sometime has various meanings depending on where you sit and what you have access to....

Last edited by Paul85; 18 December 2017 at 04:55.
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  #46  
Old 18 December 2017, 04:56
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EDIT: Double post.

Last edited by Paul85; 18 December 2017 at 05:09.
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  #47  
Old 18 December 2017, 12:09
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the straw man argument is always "if you aren't doing anything wrong it shouldn't matter"

the gubmint simply elects to define that as suspicious behavior

fucking American citizens and their silly freedoms
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  #48  
Old 18 December 2017, 13:38
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Was 1975 the first time the people got confirmation of the government spying on them, or was there a time before that where it was out in the open?

40 years later, and some people are still surprised that we're being spied on?
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  #49  
Old 19 December 2017, 10:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Look. Don'tTouch. View Post
Was 1975 the first time the people got confirmation of the government spying on them, or was there a time before that where it was out in the open?

40 years later, and some people are still surprised that we're being spied on?
I forget when the FBI office in Media, PA was raided. That was one breach.

As I recall, the Pike and the Church Committees of 1976 also reported mass surveillance. Those reports can be downloaded from the web.

As I recall, STELLARWIND was blown in 2005.
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  #50  
Old 19 December 2017, 12:36
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Well... if they want to pay some dude a G10 salary to sit around and watch me walk around in my underwear all day, cussing and mumbling to myself about how fucked up everything is... more power to them. The problems I have with all this shit are, the massive waste of our money on doing just that. The other problem is that we are supposed to be secure in our persons and property. Well, that went the way of the dodo a long time ago.

Once you lose a freedom, no one in government is going to hand it back to you. It must be taken back. Just my .02c
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Finally, I believe that punishing lawful gun owners by creating new, more onerous laws, and restricting Constitutionally guaranteed rights, when we already don't enforce the tens of thousands of gun laws we have on the books, is like beating your dog because the neighbor's dog shit in your yard.
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  #51  
Old 19 December 2017, 13:13
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^A brigade level chaplain told us while we were in Iraq that some of the antennas on our big FOB building roof were for listening to soldiers communication back home, and apparently he was part of that. Don't know how true that statement is, but you did have to click on the dialogue box that popped up and said your communications weren't secure before you could get on any internet cafe.

Seems stupid to spend any time monitoring our conversations with our wives and girlfriends when we didn't even have enough US Arabic speakers. Probably exactly what they did though.
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  #52  
Old 19 December 2017, 14:04
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The government doesn't take away anyone's freedoms - the American people at large surrender it. There are more than 50 members of congress that managed to stay in office in excess of 40 years.
Eight of them are still in office. Seven of them (John Dingell, Robert Byrd, Carl Hayden, Daniel Inouye, James Whitten, John Conyers, and Carl Vinson) all stayed in office for OVER 50 years because people continued to retain them in office.

If the peasant class continues to empower the ruling class, then there should be no gripes or complaints when your interests are not properly represented.

Cries for "Term limits" is always used as the panacea - but term limits are as simple as changing your vote on election day. Politicians don't "take" our freedoms - they "accept" our freedoms.
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  #53  
Old 19 December 2017, 14:47
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Didn't say they did. Those freedoms were lost. Through the legislation passed by our reps, who serve the money. What I did say was that they need to be taken back. One problem I see is that the only people you have to choose from in pretty much all elections are the ones who the propaganda machine supports. Then you have the "polls" where that same propaganda machine tells you that everyone else is voting one way, so you should too... Many people (sheep) vote one way or another because they believe that tripe.

The two party system, where the propaganda machine (read news media) is so blatantly biased, is a horrible system to get politicians that really give a fuck about "We the people..." One need go no further than the last election to see the results. Media gave biased coverage, refused to report negatives on one politician, and reported nothing BUT negatives on the other, came out with their super accurate polls declaring how way far ahead their candidate was.... the blatant reaction to the news that their candidate actually LOST... Add to that the hollywood types, who everyone is now finding out are the dregs of society, adding in their educated opinions on who would be the best candidate... adding fuel to the fire and shoving the propaganda machine forward...

You are told who to vote for regardless of who you want to vote for, and most people can't (or don't want to) see that it is just a choice of the person you think is going to fuck you the least.
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Quote:
Finally, I believe that punishing lawful gun owners by creating new, more onerous laws, and restricting Constitutionally guaranteed rights, when we already don't enforce the tens of thousands of gun laws we have on the books, is like beating your dog because the neighbor's dog shit in your yard.
"The Reaper"
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  #54  
Old 19 December 2017, 21:41
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https://news.url.google.com/url?sa=j...6lw_d14kIbXBX8.

You can really start worrying when you can't use cash anymore...this is my nightmare.

The slow death of the humble coin has become a global phenomenon.

Smart cards and mobile payments are gradually moving the world toward a cashless society.

In 2011, the United States Mint suspended the production of Presidential $1 Coins, "to reduce costs and improve efficiency," according to Tim Geithner, who was US treasury secretary at the time.

Gradually, coins and hard cash are losing their popularity in the world's largest economy.

Figures show that consumers there are turning away from cash payments when it comes to household bills and supermarket shopping.

Last year, only 24 percent polled by research and consultancy group Gallup Inc used cash to pay for major items compared to 36 percent in 2011.

"Most customers use e-payment systems like Venmo, Paypal or Apple Pay to handle their bills," said Lisa Whitson, a supermarket owner in Texas.

"Only those buying a few items tend to use paper currency or coins for payment, and the value is usually less than $10," she added.

Shoppers in South Korea are also discarding their coins. A Bank of Korea survey showed that only 20 percent used cash for major items.

The trend has forced the country to cut back on coin production before taking them out of circulation by 2020.

South Korea is not alone in consigning its coins to history.

In 2012, Canada stopped minting 1 cent (0.79 US cents) coins, which had been around since 1858.

A major problem was that Canadian "pennies", as they were known, cost 1.6 cents to manufacture. The government expects to save C$11 million ($8.6 million) a year by eliminating them.

"Pennies take up too much space on our dressers at home," joked Jim Flaherty, a former Canadian finance minister. "We will, therefore, stop making them."

Australia is going down a similar route.

Ross MacDiarmid, head of the Royal Australian Mint, confirmed that the country's 5 cent (3.8 US cents) coins will disappear in the next five to 10 years.

"I think the 5 cent piece is almost dying a natural death," he told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

"We have seen a halving of demand for 5 cent pieces over the past five years and our expectation is that it will just simply progress," he added. "It has lost its appeal."
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  #55  
Old 19 December 2017, 21:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul85 View Post
The argumentation on the side of the authorities could be as follows: If you have nothing to hide, why do you hide? A catch-22.
I have nothing to hide. Doesn’t mean everyone else has a right to look at it.
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  #56  
Old 21 December 2017, 06:53
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I'm just glad this mass surveillance is stopping all the white guys with guns, or brown guys with automobiles, from killing people.
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  #57  
Old 21 December 2017, 07:16
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In addition to religion, how about Santa Claus?

We are conditioned to believe we are under constant surveillance by a mythical being in addition to God from when we are babies.

And then we've taken it up a notch by introducing Elf on the Shelf in recent years. For those of you that don't have kids- I'll explain. There's this toy elf that you buy. You present it to your kids and have them name it. You then inform them that the elf assists Santa in determining their behavior by watching them all day. The magic of the elf is demonstrated by how it moves to a different spot each night (unless mommy and daddy get drunk and forget, which triggers adminisments of "you must have done something awful to offend the elf, so he didn't move!).

My little daughter came up to me the other day and confided that she thought the elf had a hidden camera in it and that Santa had a contract with the NSA to monitor that way. Then it occurred to me that she's already conditioned to accept .gov surveillance. Ugh.
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  #58  
Old 21 December 2017, 13:43
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Originally Posted by MakoZeroSix View Post
...My little daughter came up to me the other day and confided that she thought the elf had a hidden camera in it and that Santa had a contract with the NSA to monitor that way. Then it occurred to me that she's already conditioned to accept .gov surveillance. Ugh.

Only funny because it's uncomfortably true.

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  #59  
Old 21 December 2017, 15:34
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Originally Posted by Believeraz View Post
Not to mention the ol' "who cares/ we aren't going to use it in court, just for background" attitude of certain fedLE agencies.
The "It's not illegal or unconstitutional if no one ever finds out we did it" attitude is becoming more and more prevalent in federal LE and intel agencies as well.
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  #60  
Old 21 December 2017, 17:00
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Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
Only funny because it's uncomfortably true.
Those things creep me out. I have no desire to have one in my home. Supposedly they only listen when you call for them, but it seems to me that means THEY ARE LISTENING ALL THE TIME!!!
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