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  #1  
Old 16 August 2019, 12:44
Stretch Stretch is offline
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F-4 Phantom, The Last Ace Maker...

A buddy of mine texted me as he had come across an old copy of Air and Space from the Smithsonian. Once I get a hold of it I’ll get it scanned in.

I found this link when searching around:

https://www.hobbybunker.com/forum/in...showtopic=3769
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  #2  
Old 16 August 2019, 13:39
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CPTAUSRET CPTAUSRET is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
A buddy of mine texted me as he had come across an old copy of Air and Space from the Smithsonian. Once I get a hold of it I’ll get it scanned in.

I found this link when searching around:

https://www.hobbybunker.com/forum/in...showtopic=3769
I loved that aircraft in VN and really wanted to fly one in combat. Combat for me being the ultimate form of flying.
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  #3  
Old 16 August 2019, 14:25
Stretch Stretch is offline
The atomic zit
 
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My buddy is headed over after work. He’s already made a copy.

My father wanted to fly but his God given 20/600 did not make him the best candidate.

When he showed up in St. Louis at McDonnell Aircraft mid ‘60s, they were manufacturing F-4s three shifts a day.

He had the opportunity to briefly work on the production line when the Union went on strike. This was before I was a gleam in his eye.
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  #4  
Old 16 August 2019, 15:23
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hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
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She's a classic.

There was actually an F-4G in my UPT drop. They phased them out a couple years later but it would have been cool to have flown it, even for a short time.
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  #5  
Old 16 August 2019, 18:01
RemTech RemTech is offline
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Most of the old guys had crewed F-4s and F-105s when I got to the line in '86. Most of the 0-4,5,6 pilots had flown them as well. All loved the airframe but the crew chiefs loved working the 16 due to ease of maintenance. We would have F-4s drop in every now and then, they were awesome to watch take off spewing fire and smoke - great aircraft. I've seen the Cunningham, Olds and Ritchie shows on AHC and Smithsonian - studs.
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Old 16 August 2019, 18:11
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hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RemTech View Post
Most of the old guys had crewed F-4s and F-105s when I got to the line in '86. Most of the 0-4,5,6 pilots had flown them as well. All loved the airframe but the crew chiefs loved working the 16 due to ease of maintenance. We would have F-4s drop in every now and then, they were awesome to watch take off spewing fire and smoke - great aircraft. I've seen the Cunningham, Olds and Ritchie shows on AHC and Smithsonian - studs.
Olds is a full on bad ass, if you haven't read Fighter Pilot I highly recommend it. Not a fan of Cunningham or Ritchie for various reasons.
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  #7  
Old 16 August 2019, 19:38
Akheloce Akheloce is offline
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Quoted from another forum, I thought it was funny:

Quote:
A colleague who is F22 pilot for the Virginia ANG had honor of flying a Phantom at Eglin. He flew the aircraft we had at the reunion. Here is the F-22 pilot’s thoughts on flying the F-4:

I flew your jet a couple days ago (see attached). I had a little trouble getting the engines started, so I climbed out and shoveled some more coal in the back; after that she fired right up. Ground ops were uneventful, although I couldn’t figure out why the cockpit smelled like body odor, Jack Daniels and cigars…and that was BEFORE I got in it! By the way, what’s with the no slip crap on top of the intakes, it’s like you have permanent icing conditions due to that spray on rhino truck bed liner on top of the aircraft. It’s no wonder you needed so much coal (I mean thrust) to get airborne.

Take off scared the sh*t out of me. I lit the burners at brick one and 2 miles and 45 minutes later we were ready to rotate. After barely clearing the tree tops, the gear came up and I climbed away at a VERY impressive 2 degrees nose high. In case you don’t remember, “Trim” is your friend in the F-4 (pretty sure it’s also a good friend on the ground too). Once I got her up to speed and a moderate altitude, we were ready for the G-Ex. Two G-turn’s later and I’m sinking like a rock…the F-4’s energy seems to bleed like Holyfield’s ear in the Tyson fight! After the G-Ex it was time to do a little Advanced Handling Characteristics (AHC) and by “advanced handling” I mean the same crap the Wright Brothers were doing back in 1903…just trying to keep it airborne.

The jet flies much like my old man’s station wagon used to drive…You turn the wheel (push the stick) a few inches and nothing happens, then all of a sudden the steering kicks in, inertia takes over, and all HELL breaks loose! You’re pretty much along for the ride at that point and only gravity has a real say in your lift vector placement. “Checking 6” was really quite easy…. because you CAN’T! Scratch that off the list of “Sh*t I need to do to keep myself alive in combat today”. Breathing, however, was surprisingly easy in the F-4 when compared to that of the F-22 (thank you Lockheed)…LOX works, who knew!

I think I may have burned my legs a bit from the steam pouring out from behind the gauges. Where are my 6 mini-flat screen TV’s, I’m lost without my HD jet displays (editors note: actually, I’m an analog guy stuck in a digital world too…I really do like the “steam driven” gauges). After the AHC, I decided to take her up high and do a supersonic MACH run, and by “high” I mean “where never lark nor even eagle flew”; but not much higher, a foot or two maybe. I mean, we weren’t up there high-fiving Jesus like we do in the Raptor, but it was respectable. It only took me the width of the Gulf of Mexico to get the thing turned around while above the Mach. After the Mach run we dropped to the deck and did 600 kts at 500’; a ratllin’ and shakin’ we will go…. I though all the rivets were going to pop out. Reference previous station wagon analogy! Very quickly we were out of gas and headed home.

As I brought the jet up initial, I couldn’t help but think that the boys who took this thing into combat had to have some pretty big brass you know whats!

My first F-4 landing was a little rough; sub-standard really by Air Force measure… but apparently “best seen to date” according to the Navy guys. Did you know that there’s no such thing as an aerobrake in the F-4? As soon as the main gear touches down, the nose comes slamming down to the runway with all the force of a meteor hitting the earth….I guess the F-4 aerobrake technique is to dissipate energy via denting the runway.

Despite an apparently “decent” landing, stopping was a whole different problem. I reached down and pulled the handle to deploy the drogue chute…at which point a large solid mass of canvas, 550 cord, metal weights and cables fell out and began bouncing down the runway; chasing me like a lost puppy and FOD’ing out the whole runway. Perfect. I mashed down on the breaks and I’m pretty sure at this point the jet just started laughing at me. Why didn’t you warn me that I needed a shuttle landing strip to get this damn thing stopped?

All kidding aside, VERY COOL jet! Must have been a kick to fly back when you were in Vietnam! Just kidding!
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  #8  
Old 16 August 2019, 19:42
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hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
Quoted from another forum, I thought it was funny:
Sounds like an F-22 guy all right.
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  #9  
Old 16 August 2019, 22:49
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CB CB is offline
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That is Great!

I wish I had that talent for writing and I would do a recitation of a freefall jump with a B-12 C-9 canopy modified into "blank gore and derry slots" jump at Fort Campbell in 1972.

"So I pulled full left steering line ... and the canopy said ... huh .. what ... oh ... you want me to turn left ... let me get on that. [30 seconds and 500 feet lower]) OK, here is a bit of a perceptible left turn. What, the wind shifted, you want me to turn right!? BUT MAN, I'm just now getting into the left thing ...".

Constantly correcting, but never correct, until impact (ummm landing).
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  #10  
Old 17 August 2019, 07:21
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agonyea agonyea is offline
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We used to get air support for these fast movers.They often dropped danger close so on the second run you could literally hear the fins poppet on the 500 pounds frags. We would moon the pilot as he rolled over to check his drop.
They would drop napalm so close when it exploded it would literally take your breath away.
Loved those fast movers
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  #11  
Old 20 August 2019, 09:38
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Box Box is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB View Post
That is Great!

I wish I had that talent for writing and I would do a recitation of a freefall jump with a B-12 C-9 canopy modified into "blank gore and derry slots" jump at Fort Campbell in 1972.

"So I pulled full left steering line ... and the canopy said ... huh .. what ... oh ... you want me to turn left ... let me get on that. [30 seconds and 500 feet lower]) OK, here is a bit of a perceptible left turn. What, the wind shifted, you want me to turn right!? BUT MAN, I'm just now getting into the left thing ...".

Constantly correcting, but never correct, until impact (ummm landing).
The nature of flight is pretty constant:
It sounds like that old hunk of silk C-9 flies just like my old Stiletto 107.
...full left steering line STILL costs you 500 feet - it just doesn't take 30 seconds to get there - not that it matters - a 30 second toggle turn from an opening altitude of 4500 under a high wing-load elliptical will ALSO put you on short final if you hold it for 30 seconds

...a little off the wind line after the 30 second toggle turn - check
...trying to correct course by counter steering against the ill thought turn - check
...impact because of the way we just disrespected the canopy's flight characteristics - check

...the only real difference is YOUR jump suit probably looked like something Elvis would wear and mine probably looks like a set of footie-pajamas


I do think my bounce would be a little higher though
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  #12  
Old 18 August 2019, 16:21
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P304X4 P304X4 is offline
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I remember hearing an F-4 jock saying the aircraft was proof that you could make anything fly, with a big enough engine.
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  #13  
Old 19 August 2019, 17:41
Fu King Lawyer Fu King Lawyer is offline
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Gents,
This brought back so many memories - I loved the PSA on the Far East Network.

Well, I'd rather be an F-4 jock,
Than the owner of Fort Knox.
And I like the smell of JP-4,
Better than a rosewood box.
Hydraulic fluid and afterburner fumes,
Just some kind of turn me on.
Fella, I'm happier flying F-4Ds
Than a hound dog gnawing a bone.


http://www.fighterpilotuniversity.co...be-an-f-4-jock
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  #14  
Old 19 August 2019, 17:49
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hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fu King Lawyer View Post
Gents,
This brought back so many memories - I loved the PSA on the Far East Network.

Well, I'd rather be an F-4 jock,
Than the owner of Fort Knox.
And I like the smell of JP-4,
Better than a rosewood box.
Hydraulic fluid and afterburner fumes,
Just some kind of turn me on.
Fella, I'm happier flying F-4Ds
Than a hound dog gnawing a bone.


http://www.fighterpilotuniversity.co...be-an-f-4-jock
I have a similar one hanging over my desk with Robin Olds’ signature on it.



Content:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ft4ywx8PhAs
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Last edited by hawkdrver; 19 August 2019 at 18:10.
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  #15  
Old 23 August 2019, 19:17
Rockville Rockville is offline
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Did he signed with his mustache?
My uncle flew F-4. out of Thailand in 1960s.

[QUOTE=hawkdrver;1058811233]I have a similar one hanging over my desk with Robin Olds’ signature on it.
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  #16  
Old 3 September 2019, 23:12
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Lefty Lefty is offline
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Once upon a time we were boxed in at Ben Het, the only road in/out was held by the NVA. We were app. 300, they had three regiments massing around us. F4s coming back from over the fence had some 500 lb. left over, so upon our request they unloaded on the NVA ambushing the convoy trying to break thru the roadblock. Re-arranged the landscape and gave us some relief. Those F4s were the best thing we had seen in a while.
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  #17  
Old 9 September 2019, 04:14
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hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty View Post
Once upon a time we were boxed in at Ben Het, the only road in/out was held by the NVA. We were app. 300, they had three regiments massing around us. F4s coming back from over the fence had some 500 lb. left over, so upon our request they unloaded on the NVA ambushing the convoy trying to break thru the roadblock. Re-arranged the landscape and gave us some relief. Those F4s were the best thing we had seen in a while.
Awesome.

Sure would like to hear more of your stories boss.
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  #18  
Old 20 August 2019, 04:18
Phixer56 Phixer56 is offline
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The first aircraft I ever worked on. Absolutely the most difficult but also the most rewarding. And tough as hell.
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  #19  
Old 20 August 2019, 06:21
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Tracy Tracy is offline
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Loved the Rhinos.
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  #20  
Old 20 August 2019, 22:24
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pavegnr pavegnr is offline
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First aircraft I worked on. It was famous for phantom bites because of the tubes that were cut at a 45 degree angle. Center-line safe pin was behind two exhaust doors that closed at 3000 psi. Yes it would scare the shit out of you on EOR loads/safes when they closed and you were trying to put the safe arm in there.
I had an EWO as my commander later and he was a Nam guy. Said the radar screen was like watching TV in the 60s with the wind blowing, black white and fuzzy.
When I was a loader we had a guy that was a pilot and he had some old tapes of missions he had flown off the system recorder. It was not PC on those tapes.
If you ever get close to one you will see all the patches where they came back all shot up. One of the reasons a lot of the pilots loved them was cause you could fill it full of holes and it would still fly.
There big joke was they glide like a brick shit house.
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