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  #21  
Old 21 November 2018, 13:57
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The Handgun That Revolutionized Warfare!!!

You heard it here first...a striker-fired weapon with ambi controls and night sights could have won all past wars for us!!!

Article on the Sig M17.

It's one thing for a news outlet to breathlessly report something they have no clue about. However...Army flacks are doing the same.

LTC Martin O'Donnell, SFC Andrew Flynn, LTC Stephen Power...come on down. You three win the award for today.

Some awesome quotes from those three...umm...experts:

Quote:
“You can close with the enemy in close quarter combat and engage the enemy with one hand. It is tough to do this with the M9,” Lt. Col. Martin O’Donnell, spokesman for the 101st Airborne, told reporters earlier this year.
Hmm...I can do that with a spork...doesn't make it a good idea or mean I'm going to win the fight...also explains why we haven't been sprinting at the enemy wielding M9s one-handed, cuz, it's tough to do that with the M9, see?

Quote:
“With this weapon, you can change quickly from right hand to left hand. If you are shooting something that is not comfortable on your hand and can't get a comfortable grip, it is not as accurate,” Sgt. 1st Class Andrew Flynn, 101st Division Master Gunner, said earlier this year.

“This adds a whole new dynamic to close-quarter combat. A standard pistol cannot change grips or allow a soldier to switch from a right-handed shooter to a left-handed shooter. This is a great capability for us to put in play,” Flynn said.
So...um...can't really help Flynn out. He's already adept at juggling pistols, and...ok...Flynn, I can't put lipstick on that pig. You're a Master Gunner?

Quote:
“It increases target recognition and increases capability with night sights,” Lt. Col. Steven Power, Individual Weapons Product Manager, Soldier Weapons, told reporters earlier this year.
While each of the three of them is certainly special, the award goes to LTC Power, provided he can explain how the M17 increases "target recognition."
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  #22  
Old 21 November 2018, 14:21
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Dummies should have kept their mouths shut. Not hard to shoot one handed or switch hands. I didn't have a problem hitting my targets at night without night sights.
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  #23  
Old 21 November 2018, 15:09
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DId I miss where threaded barrels and suppressors were part of this purchase?
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  #24  
Old 22 November 2018, 05:55
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Looks like we have some dudes getting close to retirement, that love the scenery and solitude that New Hampshire can provide.
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
On February 20, 2018, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.”

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time”

“Take the guns first, go through due process second”

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court"
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  #25  
Old 23 November 2018, 01:15
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Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Looks like we have some dudes getting close to retirement, that love the scenery and solitude that New Hampshire can provide.
I'm guessing Sig wants folks that understand the basics of firearms and combat employment of weapons systems.
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  #26  
Old 23 November 2018, 22:46
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I'm guessing Sig wants folks that understand the basics of firearms and combat employment of weapons systems.
SIG might be looking for a CEO. Ron Cohen was allegedly arrested in Germany for export violations.
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  #27  
Old 24 November 2018, 00:43
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Originally Posted by GPC View Post
SIG might be looking for a CEO. Ron Cohen was allegedly arrested in Germany for export violations.
I saw that...guessing that will probably get worked out. Reading up on the details, I'm guessing that any violations of German law were inadvertent.
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  #28  
Old 24 November 2018, 05:13
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Quote:
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SIG might be looking for a CEO. Ron Cohen was allegedly arrested in Germany for export violations.
In the USA the one agency you never want to fuck with is ATF. (The IRS you can get rid of easily, just pay them.)

In Germany the Bundesamt für Wirtschaft und Ausfuhrkontrolle, (BAFA) in English the Federal Office of Economics and Export Control and the Bundeszollverwaltung (Zoll for short) in English the Federal Customs Agency are co-holders of that position.
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  #29  
Old 6 December 2018, 00:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
I'm guessing Sig wants folks that understand the basics of firearms and combat employment of weapons systems.
LOL. One would think. I’ve heard every man’s integrity has a price. I don’t know if that’s true, but if it is, they’re not offering enough for the things that happen.

I’m not here to trash a long standing company out of some personal vendetta, so any criticism of their products or handling of issues is not done with a bias. There are actually some excellent people there working every day to improve things for the end users, and I’d never want to impede their success. They make good products too.

To me, the biggest issue with the 320 happened years before the social media frenzy when the guns went off. It was the response of the PR and Execs, back then and when it needed to be addressed publicly.

This was hardly a surprise to anyone who’d been testing the 320 in the tens of thousands per shooter. There was never any lack of concerns that the cruciform could get stuck in the frame from a side impact, or the striker could be released from a slide-down impact. It was beyond a concern, it was a known occurrence. The M17 iterations submitted for testing were a modified design for a reason. The decision to continue shipping the previous design, knowing the safety concerns, seemed to have been driven by the amount of assemblies and parts already machined and ready for assembly, and the money spent to amass so many components. Components that would be rendered obsolete as soon as the new design was released as an “improvement”.

Of course, the end result was far more expensive for them than the initial transparency would have been. The audacity of Cohen to point a finger pretty overtly at Glock and say “at least disassembly doesn’t require a trigger to be pulled”, as if user error is somehow the manufacturers fault, was stunning. To then attempt to package the drop-firing as a feature over a flaw, saying it was to discourage unsafe handling of a carry/duty gun? That was some shit.

Of course this is all based on things I’ve read while I read the internet in its entirety, daily, which I learned from The Fat Guy. Makes you wicked smart. Just in case I’m about to get sued to death by Sig...lol
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  #30  
Old 9 December 2018, 14:42
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We have had three of these in the store for more than 6 months. A 9mm with the sig RMR, a .40 and a 45 ACP. I keep looking at them but keep asking my self "Why?"
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  #31  
Old 9 December 2018, 14:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
We have had three of these in the store for more than 6 months. A 9mm with the sig RMR, a .40 and a 45 ACP. I keep looking at them but keep asking my self "Why?"
Because the P320 "...increases target recognition and increases capability with night sights." Well, I'm not sure if the P320 does that, but the M17 has revolutionized ground close combat. Had we had these during the Battle of Hue, we'd have quickly triumphed.
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  #32  
Old 9 December 2018, 16:45
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That 'target recognition' thing is a sure fire seller for those with Iron Poor blood. hahahaa.
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  #33  
Old 10 December 2018, 08:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
We have had three of these in the store for more than 6 months. A 9mm with the sig RMR, a .40 and a 45 ACP. I keep looking at them but keep asking my self "Why?"
Don't do it.
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  #34  
Old 10 December 2018, 09:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Because the P320 "...increases target recognition and increases capability with night sights." Well, I'm not sure if the P320 does that, but the M17 has revolutionized ground close combat. Had we had these during the Battle of Hue, we'd have quickly triumphed.
Are they any easier to find underground?
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  #35  
Old 10 December 2018, 10:28
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I had a P320 Compact in .45 ACP for a minute; ran exactly 500 rounds through it in two range trips. Flat shooting, good trigger, super easy to clean. I saw the upside to the design overall. I did end up selling it because the compact was just too small for my hands -- this is the only pic I have -- but my palm just swallowed that grip. So I bought a P320 X-carry, which *for me* is better than my G19. Feels better in my hand, more accurate, and has a
better trigger by far out of the box than the Glock. So far I have 3200+ rounds through the X-Carry, and again-- for my taste, it has a better natural point of aim than the G19.

Here's a good side-by-side comparison, and a review from some gun dude on the interwebs (jk; Clay Martin fmr USMC FR and Army SF).

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/p320-x-carry/

Just my personal experience from owning two 320-series pistols.
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  #36  
Old 10 December 2018, 14:16
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Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
Are they any easier to find underground?
Dunno...did you find the one in your yard yet?
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  #37  
Old 10 December 2018, 22:36
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Dunno...did you find the one in your yard yet?
Well...... maybe if certain people would Get Off The GRASS! I could look for it.

So... no.
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  #38  
Old 11 December 2018, 07:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOW_0331 View Post
LOL. One would think. I’ve heard every man’s integrity has a price. I don’t know if that’s true, but if it is, they’re not offering enough for the things that happen.

I’m not here to trash a long standing company out of some personal vendetta, so any criticism of their products or handling of issues is not done with a bias. There are actually some excellent people there working every day to improve things for the end users, and I’d never want to impede their success. They make good products too.

To me, the biggest issue with the 320 happened years before the social media frenzy when the guns went off. It was the response of the PR and Execs, back then and when it needed to be addressed publicly.

This was hardly a surprise to anyone who’d been testing the 320 in the tens of thousands per shooter. There was never any lack of concerns that the cruciform could get stuck in the frame from a side impact, or the striker could be released from a slide-down impact. It was beyond a concern, it was a known occurrence. The M17 iterations submitted for testing were a modified design for a reason. The decision to continue shipping the previous design, knowing the safety concerns, seemed to have been driven by the amount of assemblies and parts already machined and ready for assembly, and the money spent to amass so many components. Components that would be rendered obsolete as soon as the new design was released as an “improvement”.

Of course, the end result was far more expensive for them than the initial transparency would have been. The audacity of Cohen to point a finger pretty overtly at Glock and say “at least disassembly doesn’t require a trigger to be pulled”, as if user error is somehow the manufacturers fault, was stunning. To then attempt to package the drop-firing as a feature over a flaw, saying it was to discourage unsafe handling of a carry/duty gun? That was some shit.

Of course this is all based on things I’ve read while I read the internet in its entirety, daily, which I learned from The Fat Guy. Makes you wicked smart. Just in case I’m about to get sued to death by Sig...lol
Thanks for posting, interesting feedback.

Like to hear, maybe a year from now, the complaints and praises coming from Joe in the field.

Will stick with my Glock 19x.
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  #39  
Old 18 December 2018, 17:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Thanks for posting, interesting feedback.

Like to hear, maybe a year from now, the complaints and praises coming from Joe in the field.

Will stick with my Glock 19x.
The 19X is an absurdly well designed and made gun. I like the G45 as well, though I prefer the little palm swell you get with the 19X over the mag cut in the 45.

I don’t know if it counts as Joe in the field, but there was a pretty high profile problem with the M17s delivered to the 101st. Namely that they were splintering apart. Sig’s response being “you’re shooting them too much” (paraphrased).
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  #40  
Old 9 April 2019, 00:44
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Ive owned 6 Sig p320s, one had minor issues and was picky with ammo and another was a POS that would not fire(faulty FCU). The other 4 were good pistols with a very nice trigger. I ran a few of them in IDPA and a couple pistol classes wihout too many issues. Ive switched back to Glocks since then though, I just trust them more, ymmv.
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