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Old 19 September 2019, 11:02
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New Army shooting standards

Just read where the Army is establishing new shooting standards/qualification tests.

No not alibis, targets in multiples of four, part of test has gas mask and night vision being worn. Magazines drawn from vest, not stacked out in front of you. Ten round mags.

Trying to make testing more realistic. Be interested to hear feedback from any in service who have done new test.
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Old 19 September 2019, 14:34
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I question whether or not a new qualification test makes sense unless enough time is spent training for the required skillsets. Would it make more sense to have unit or MOS specific standards? As a guy who had a support MOS, I only had to qualify 2 times after Basic Training in my 4 years in the Army. I was in 2ID Korea in a BSB and then a Meddac unit. I spent more time in anti sexual harassment training than I did with a rifle. I am not averse to the Army creating new qualification tests but from the support side of things, I think the bigger problem is the severe lack of training.
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Old 19 September 2019, 14:50
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I will check with my son on family day next month what was involved in shooting quals. It did look like from pics on his companies site that they are using vest for mags. Did not see anything that suggested gas mask.
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Old 19 September 2019, 16:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Just read where the Army is establishing new shooting standards/qualification tests.

No not alibis, targets in multiples of four, part of test has gas mask and night vision being worn. Magazines drawn from vest, not stacked out in front of you. Ten round mags.

Trying to make testing more realistic. Be interested to hear feedback from any in service who have done new test.
about time. Once my guys qualed for the Navy, I would make sure we went out again, and I had them do jumping jacks to get their heart rate up and do mag changes, etc. Real shooting for real shit
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Old 19 September 2019, 17:35
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Sounds like what we did in the seventies.
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Old 19 September 2019, 18:40
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Well don't have to wait for family day. He said they did shoot with gas mask, and night vision in letter I just received.
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Old 19 September 2019, 18:48
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We were just talking about this subject at work. I'm all about adding additional training and improving their combat firing skills, but I think Soldiers and Marines need to be great at the basics before they focus on more advanced stuff.
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Old 19 September 2019, 19:16
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Son had to qualify with iron sites first. Also his is the first Infantry group to have his OSUT got 22 weeks.
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Old 19 September 2019, 20:00
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Originally Posted by mike76233 View Post
I question whether or not a new qualification test makes sense unless enough time is spent training for the required skillsets. Would it make more sense to have unit or MOS specific standards? As a guy who had a support MOS, I only had to qualify 2 times after Basic Training in my 4 years in the Army. I was in 2ID Korea in a BSB and then a Meddac unit. I spent more time in anti sexual harassment training than I did with a rifle. I am not averse to the Army creating new qualification tests but from the support side of things, I think the bigger problem is the severe lack of training.
It would make sense that all soldiers get enough live fire training to pass Army Quals on a real range first time go. Pro mask, night was fam fire previously. It makes sense to integrate pro mask/NVG into a quality.

Itís a 10 level CTT task, and the most important to my mind, MOS immaterial.
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Old 19 September 2019, 21:22
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Well I better contact LHI so I can get some prescription inserts for the gas mask.

This will be interesting to see how the USAR/NG handle these new qualification standards.

I am not even sure we had any gas masks or NVG's at the Civil Affairs unit I was with for six years.
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Old 19 September 2019, 23:19
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I dont know. Seems to me a young feller or gal should probably just learn to shoot first and concentrate on that. I've had soldiers that never, ever fired a firearm of any kind until they entered service.

Are their still Squad Leaders in the Army?
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Old 20 September 2019, 06:41
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I was never as accomplished a shooter as most of you, however, when I was a marksmanship instructor my shooting skills vastly improved. Watching others fail to zero their weapons and knowing what to look for and how to get them on paper improved the shooting ability of every unit we trained. The advanced skills in the shooter had to come a bit easier after that.
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Old 20 September 2019, 09:18
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They need to spend more time on making marksmen into sharpshooters and sharpshooters into experts. Make shooters better shooters through mastery of the basics and then move ahead. One can't teach advanced shooting without a solid foundation and expect it to stick.
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Old 20 September 2019, 09:31
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They need to spend more time on making marksmen into sharpshooters and sharpshooters into experts. Make shooters better shooters through mastery of the basics and then move ahead. One can't teach advanced shooting without a solid foundation and expect it to stick.
Yep, Army needs the every soldier is a rifleman first attitude.
Makes me laugh they want a new rifle round. But troops can't hit shit with the one they got. Gear over training mentality strikes again.
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Old 20 September 2019, 09:31
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Originally Posted by Mars View Post
They need to spend more time on making marksmen into sharpshooters and sharpshooters into experts. Make shooters better shooters through mastery of the basics and then move ahead. One can't teach advanced shooting without a solid foundation and expect it to stick.
Andy may not be here buuuuuuuuttttt, there is not such thing as “advanced” shooting, just doing the basics betterer.

Also, TWENTY-TWO weeks at OUST?! That’s a lot of accident avoidance and sexual harassment classes. I don’t know how the big green weenie could fill an extra FIVE weeks of BS in basic.
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Old 20 September 2019, 09:38
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Andy may not be here buuuuuuuuttttt, there is not such thing as “advanced” shooting, just doing the basics betterer.

Also, TWENTY-TWO weeks at OUST?! That’s a lot of accident avoidance and sexual harassment classes. I don’t know how the big green weenie could fill an extra FIVE weeks of BS in basic.
I was trying to fit Andy into it without plagiarizing him about the advanced versus basic principle....

I like to think of it as stationary shooting versus dynamic...maybe that would be better than basic and advanced.
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Old 20 September 2019, 09:41
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Yep, Army needs the every soldier is a rifleman first attitude.
Makes me laugh they want a new rifle round. But troops can't hit shit with the one they got. Gear over training mentality strikes again.
OERs and Defense Contracts.
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Old 20 September 2019, 09:42
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Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
Andy may not be here buuuuuuuuttttt, there is not such thing as ďadvancedĒ shooting, just doing the basics betterer.

Also, TWENTY-TWO weeks at OUST?! Thatís a lot of accident avoidance and sexual harassment classes. I donít know how the big green weenie could fill an extra FIVE weeks of BS in basic.
Five weeks to figure out how to negotiate and complete/pass the NEW PT test.
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Old 20 September 2019, 09:47
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Yep, Army needs the every soldier is a rifleman first attitude.
Makes me laugh they want a new rifle round. But troops can't hit shit with the one they got. Gear over training mentality strikes again.
While I agree with your premise, the two are mutually exclusive. A new rifle round isnít going to be laser guided to the target, it is being chosen for its effects on target, it still needs to get to its intended target.
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Old 20 September 2019, 10:12
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I was trying to fit Andy into it without plagiarizing him about the advanced versus basic principle....

I like to think of it as stationary shooting versus dynamic...maybe that would be better than basic and advanced.
As long as Andy still lives

Meh, still doing the basics better. This discussion was had at work. The consensus was that was that there is no such thing.
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