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Old 17 March 2010, 19:35
TJ2JM1783 TJ2JM1783 is offline
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The ObamaCare/Healthcare Thread & All Related Discussion

And the misappropriation of rights by the federal government is going to be challenged, on this issue.

Quote:
Idaho Gov. C.L. "Butch" Otter is the first state chief executive to sign a measure requiring his attorney general to sue the federal government if Congress passes health care reform.
LINK

I have been and am torn between wanting the healthcare to pass and not wanting it to pass. The real revolution can begin and maybe should begin with a clear understanding of states' rights, as they/we begin to reassert them. Domino effect of states to follow suit?

FINALLY.

Last edited by TJ2JM1783; 17 March 2010 at 19:37.
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Old 17 March 2010, 20:04
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Good to see the states grow some balls, but I won't hold my breath waiting for IL to follow suit
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Old 17 March 2010, 20:52
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Originally Posted by karlm View Post
Good to see the states grow some balls, but I won't hold my breath waiting for IL to follow suit
The "Balls" will be fleeting at best. Once Uncle Sugar threatens to cut off the "Nanny State" federal funding for all services, it's all over. States have become too reliant on big brothers wallet to effectively tell them to fuck off. Just like the whole "Drinking Age vs. Highway Funds" debacle. I would LOVE to see the States start exercising their right and push back on .Gov. I just don't see it having any teeth to it...
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Old 17 March 2010, 22:03
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Probably true, unless all 50 would make a stand.
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Old 17 March 2010, 22:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ2JM1783 View Post
Domino effect of states to follow suit?
Drudge reported today that Virginia has followed suit and 37 other states have the legislation in process but either haven't voted on it yet or haven't sent it to their governors for signature yet.
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Old 17 March 2010, 22:42
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Originally Posted by karlm View Post
Probably true, unless all 50 would make a stand.
Don't you mean all "57" states?









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Old 17 March 2010, 22:44
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Don't you mean all "57" states?









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Old 18 March 2010, 00:59
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Constitutional law experts say the movement is mostly symbolic because federal laws supersede those of the states.
looks like political posturing for the masses and the governor wasting state money to put on a show for voters.
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Old 18 March 2010, 01:18
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Tenth Amendment is still on the books. Those "Constitutional Experts" might want to reread it.

The federal government is bankrupt. Many states are bankrupt. If there was a time when states need to reassert their rights, and in which the federal government has the least power to deter them, it is now.
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Old 18 March 2010, 01:37
okie6869 okie6869 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Ball View Post
The "Balls" will be fleeting at best. Once Uncle Sugar threatens to cut off the "Nanny State" federal funding for all services, it's all over. States have become too reliant on big brothers wallet to effectively tell them to fuck off. Just like the whole "Drinking Age vs. Highway Funds" debacle. I would LOVE to see the States start exercising their right and push back on .Gov. I just don't see it having any teeth to it...
I think this is one of the reason Mark Levin of Landmark Legal Foundation has a lawsuit typed up and ready to file in the Supreme Court the moment this 'deemed passed' crap is done. Here is the draft he posted:

http://www.landmarklegal.org/uploads...13086-2%29.pdf
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Old 18 March 2010, 01:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okie6869 View Post
I think this is one of the reason Mark Levin of Landmark Legal Foundation has a lawsuit typed up and ready to file in the Supreme Court the moment this 'deemed passed' crap is done. Here is the draft he posted:

http://www.landmarklegal.org/uploads...13086-2%29.pdf
Love it.
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Old 18 March 2010, 05:42
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Originally Posted by Greenhat View Post
Love it.
+1 Greenhat. That's awesome.
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Old 18 March 2010, 09:24
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Thought this was an "interesting" quote from the POTUS...

Quote:
"I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what the procedural rules are in the House or Senate," Obama said.
Why should he? If he doesn't like the procedure or the predicted outcome, he'll find a way around it. That's a pretty bold statement coming from someone who was a Senator and is supposed to be the head of the Executive branch of the government. I'm not a huge fan of parliamentary procedure either, but when it comes to the way an entire branch of the government works, I think you have to respect it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...-doesnt-worry/
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Old 18 March 2010, 09:58
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As Green Hat clearly noted the 10th Amendment hasn’t been cut out of the Constitution just yet .

B5R, you may actually want take the time to read that silly old document .

1. The majority of U.S. Citizens are against this bill, if that is truly the case then our Representatives are not properly representing the will of the American people.

2. Obama has been selling this for more than a year, the American people don’t want to buy… So our elected officials will force us to accept it.

3. They are willing to pass a bill without a vote, that in itself is unonstitutional

4. Obama is willing to sign an unconstitutional bill and make it law. That is illegal and a violation of his oath.

5. Never have we had a law that made it mandatory to purchase a product (health insurance).
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Old 18 March 2010, 10:18
UGAfan UGAfan is offline
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In addition, the federal government has never had police powers, which are reserved to the states. Requiring health insurance, much like car insurance (which STATES require, but not the federal government), would be an exercise of that police power.
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Old 18 March 2010, 10:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UGAfan View Post
In addition, the federal government has never had police powers, which are reserved to the states. Requiring health insurance, much like car insurance (which STATES require, but not the federal government), would be an exercise of that police power.
Huh?
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Old 18 March 2010, 10:41
MDH MDH is offline
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Many folks like to bring up the comparison between car insurance and health insurance…Bogus argument.

Driving a car is a privilege granted to you by the states, not a right. The state owns the roads and maintains the roads (well ok..sometimes). To exercise the privilege of driving on state roads you are required to maintain insurance, and I think some states will still allow you to self insure.

You are not required to maintain auto insurance if you own a car but do not drive it (leave it parked in your garage), you are also not required to maintain insurance on a vehicle that you drive on private roads i.e.. Drag cars, demolition derby, circle track, farm trucks, NASCAR, Indy etc.

You do not have to have auto insurance to take public or for hire transportation …Bus, Cab, train, Metro etc.

Yet with this health bill you will be required to purchase a product (insurance) even if you don’t need it .. 22 YO in great health, or a billionaire who can self insure. That my friends is the difference and what makes it wrong.
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Old 18 March 2010, 11:16
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The Republicans don't want it.
The Dems' can't get enough of their own to vote for it.
The people clearly don't want it.
and now the States are officially lining up against it.

You can dismiss it as political posturing, but what we have here is a critical mass forming.

While it sucks to be here, these certainly are interesting times.

Also, the President and his various outlets can continue to say the 'People' don't care about the 'Washington process' or 'parliamentary procedures', and he can continue to be DEAD fucking wrong.
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Old 18 March 2010, 13:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDH View Post
B5R, you may actually want take the time to read that silly old document . (I have)

1. The majority of U.S. Citizens are against this bill, if that is truly the case then our Representatives are not properly representing the will of the American people.

2. Obama has been selling this for more than a year, the American people don’t want to buy… So our elected officials will force us to accept it.
I disagree that the majority of Americans are against this.
The pundits who are against this keep saying that, but I don't buy it.
I believe the majority of American do want this.
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  #20  
Old 18 March 2010, 13:36
OldSwabbie OldSwabbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo Five Romeo View Post
I disagree that the majority of Americans are against this.
The pundits who are against this keep saying that, but I don't buy it.
I believe the majority of American do want this.

You are getting fuzzy on the distinction between THIS bill and true REFORM that Americans want. This Bill is an abomination which will send us into debt TRILLIONS of dollars. They are double counting moving money from Medicare to this crap. The phone lines are melting in DC.. It WILL be a bloodbath this November.. Mark my words.
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