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Old 23 May 2017, 13:06
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FOG Running Shoes: Aisics or other?

So, this may just be an "old guy" issue. But, in a panicked response to turning 55 I have been getting back out and hitting the roadwork for between 8-10miles/day. It's partly walking at work during morning/lunch (+/-5miles/day) on concrete in the shade of the downtown buildings. For this, my Merrell Moabs are like walking on perfection. Very tough, and not a pressure point anywhere. Very rugged, and still look brand new.

The problem is in the evenings when I combine the running (+/-5 miles more). I have a well worn pair of old Aisics GELs that have been good for a long time, but I'm starting to find out that where the laces cross with the reinforcement, they seem to have rubbed a subtle pressure point bruise on the top of my foot. At first I was worried it was a mild stress fracture or tendon issue. But it goes away with the Merrells (and bare feet) that don't have the tongue support right where the pain is. I tried a pair of new balance also with the tongue support, same issue. (picture below)



So, I'm due for a new pair of running shoes, but I'm looking for something without the extra tongue "criss-cross" support. AND anything that can help the lack of spring "suspension" in these old knees is also a positive.

ANY words of advice are welcome and appreciated.
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Old 23 May 2017, 13:12
Agoge Agoge is offline
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I changed from Aisics to Brooks a couple of years ago and never looked back. They are extremely light and flexible and one of the best running shoes I have ever owned. Brooks has a line of Mountain Trail running shoes that are missing eyelets in the exact spot you are having the pain.
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Old 23 May 2017, 13:56
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If you are close to a running store try Hoka. I'm 6,1 235lbs with both knee and 2 back surgeries and this has the most cushion for me
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Old 23 May 2017, 14:59
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and I think Brooks are still American made if that's important to you.

if you like Aisics otherwise, try skipping that cross lace and see how that works for a few days.

NB makes generally good "wide foot" shoes... in Vietnam next to Nike I think.

I wear NB minimus 10v3s mainly as a walking/driving shoe. picked up an older model Solomon trail runners that off gassed horribly for days after I unpacked them. I don't like the footbed for me, and the shoes fit, but won't fit superset or my orthotic inserts. a 1/2 size up might.
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Last edited by KW Driver; 23 May 2017 at 15:10.
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Old 23 May 2017, 15:19
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Originally Posted by KW Driver View Post
and I think Brooks are still American made if that's important to you.

if you like Aisics otherwise, try skipping that cross lace and see how that works for a few days.
LOL! I did try that and it still had just enough pressure to notice the pain. Just enough to bug the shit out of me and cause me to try to run "slightly toe-in" to change the stress point. It's strange because the hikers and barefoot I don't get it at all (even if I run). Only with shoes that have that lace wrap. I'm assuming it's maybe a small bruise, but nothing visible. I can work through it by rubbing icy-hot on it, but then instead of slight pain it's just annoying as hell. Sucks to get old, and worse when you refuse to accept it. LOL!
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Old 23 May 2017, 17:01
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If you are close to a running store try Hoka. I'm 6,1 235lbs with both knee and 2 back surgeries and this has the most cushion for me
If you want to try these, Sierra Trading Post recently had them about half off.
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Old 23 May 2017, 19:10
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LOL! I did try that and it still had just enough pressure to notice the pain. Just enough to bug the shit out of me and cause me to try to run "slightly toe-in" to change the stress point. It's strange because the hikers and barefoot I don't get it at all (even if I run). Only with shoes that have that lace wrap. I'm assuming it's maybe a small bruise, but nothing visible. I can work through it by rubbing icy-hot on it, but then instead of slight pain it's just annoying as hell. Sucks to get old, and worse when you refuse to accept it. LOL!
I know the pain you're talking about. Might be the only one that's not age related Pretty sure I ran all through the CCT pipeline with it, figured it was par for the course. Tried a few different things, finally got into minimalist running and went Nike Free--> Converse Hi Top. The pain stopped in the Nike Frees, and I was actually wearing an Aasics shoe before that.

However, going without the support the modern running shoe provides might be a quick route to injury. Hope this helps.
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Old 23 May 2017, 20:15
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I've been wearing NB trail and running shoes for 30+ years. I recommend them.
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Old 23 May 2017, 20:46
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I use New Balance 910v2 shoes; and added the New Balance Ultra Support Insoles. They're goretex lined and designed for cross-country running. Had no foot problems in the last 6-7 years. I also change out my running shoes every 6-8 months. I'm jogging ~9 miles a week.
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Old 23 May 2017, 20:46
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In a few more years you will be asking for a memory cushion that goes on the recumbent cycle.
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Old 23 May 2017, 23:25
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Originally Posted by Ole crusty bastard View Post
In a few more years you will be asking for a memory cushion that goes on the recumbent cycle.
Not that far away, LOL! I see some folks casually riding around the neighborhood on quiet Saturday mornings (in the golf-cart lane) and I'm like "fuck yeah, I wan't one of those!". I'm eyeballing that shit right now! LOL! Seems like the perfect way to "cruise" for senior chicks, and I shit-you-not they get better looking every year!
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Old 24 May 2017, 12:01
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Originally Posted by IronCross View Post
I know the pain you're talking about. Might be the only one that's not age related Pretty sure I ran all through the CCT pipeline with it, figured it was par for the course. Tried a few different things, finally got into minimalist running and went Nike Free--> Converse Hi Top. The pain stopped in the Nike Frees, and I was actually wearing an Aasics shoe before that.

However, going without the support the modern running shoe provides might be a quick route to injury. Hope this helps.
You may have hit on something here IronCross, because when I tried running barefoot just for a short ways to see if the pain presented itself it was interesting that it did not (just like in the Merrell Moabs, and it was only in the Aisics (and NewBalance also) that had the extra lace-cross on the tongue.

So, I started looking into this minimalist/"barefoot" style of shoes that you mentioned and it got me wondering if the Merrells I love so much also make a "running shoe". Sure enough I may try these. Probably very similar to the Nike Frees

The Aisics GELs and NewBalance were NOT bad shoes, and lasted a long time comfortably (solid construction!), but I was only putting in 3 miles or so with them before, and nothing near the everyday milage currently. The NewBalance were my backups, and were no problem either at around the 3mi distances. And, I can run all day on the (soft/spring of the) treadmill, but the concrete currently just tends to batter the crap out of my FOG knees and ankles. It's counter-intuitive that a minimal shoe (or barefoot) seems to batter me LESS. Very strange, this running stuff. Someday, maybe I'll learn how to do it properly. LOL! And I do want to start doing some "trail running" in general and get OFF the concrete. See if I can avoid the rattlers and cholla cactus! LOL!



http://www.merrell.com/US/en/barefoot-2/

Last edited by Tycon; 24 May 2017 at 12:09.
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Old 24 May 2017, 13:54
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If you go minimalist, which I highly recommend, start out slowly or you will more than likely get injured. Once you get used to it you won't go back.
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Old 24 May 2017, 14:40
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Jong, if you don't mind me asking...which shoe did you go with for that? Did you also go with the Nike Free, or another choice? I'm kind of leaning between the Nike Free OR the Merrell Barefoots. My normal "routine" is a total of about 10mi/day, with about 3 miles of that at a run pace, in intervals. So easy to adjust to start slowly with the minimalist transition.

5-miles during the early day (3 in the morning, 2 at lunch, walking and stairs in the Merrell Moabs hikers) and then 5-miles more in the evening (after dark) to include the running "intervals", (run one song-walk one song, repeat +/-). So I can very easily start out slow percentage-wise, and just do a slowly higher run percentage until I'm minimalist conditioned (mostly all sidewalk, with the occasional sharp gravel rock...so "truely" barefoot by streetlight is a no-go). Roughly 5mph - 5.5mph is "comfortable" pace (with the right music! LOL!) with heartrate peaking between 160-165 during run-time. At age 55 that's about max. for me. Not fast, and nobody confuses me with those "gazelle" style runners. More like a buffalo. Recovery time is pretty rapidly getting faster, so that's good. Resting pulse is still in the 60's and I want to get that down in the low 50's, or better.

Last edited by Tycon; 24 May 2017 at 15:06.
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Old 24 May 2017, 17:14
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Get a shoe that fits your foot well and is comfortable. Try a lot of shoes. I wear Asics. They work for me. A long time ago I wore New Balance, but now I don't like how they fit. Nike...meh.
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Old 24 May 2017, 17:37
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I've used the merrells but they changed them from the ones I was using and now wearing some cheap off brand I got off Amazon that I like to so far. When I mean start off slow, only run like 400 meters in them for a week. Then use them around the house walking and standing in them. Your feet and lower legs will be sore.
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Put a small child in a playpen with an apple and a bunny. If s/he eats the apple and plays with the bunny, s/he's normal;but if s/he eats the bunny and plays with the apple, I'll buy you a new car. Somewhere along the line we must have been TAUGHT to do the wrong thing.

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Old 24 May 2017, 18:29
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I'm going to 2nd the switch to Brooks. I ran in Asics religiously for close to 15 years, until my knees just wouldn't stop hurting after runs. I switched to Brooks and have been feeling great. I'm a very biomechanically inefficient runner anyway, so I tend to beat the hell out of my shoes and rotate through them two or three times a year, depending on mileage. I'd give the Brooks a shot, if you decide not to go zero drop/minimalist.
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Old 24 May 2017, 19:46
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Originally Posted by Azatty View Post
Get a shoe that fits your foot well and is comfortable. Try a lot of shoes. I wear Asics. They work for me. A long time ago I wore New Balance, but now I don't like how they fit. Nike...meh.
Yes, don't worry about the brand or the cost. I've tried them all. Just get something comfortable that feels good on your feet. Your Marathon days are over. Shoes wear out, find a pair you really like, then buy 5 more pair, because they will quit making the ones you like after a few years. This coming from a runner of 50 years, 61 years old and 3 Marathons, numerous Triathlons, beach runs and now can still run around the block at a 15 min pace and call that a workout, after 800mg of Motrin of course.
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Old 24 May 2017, 22:32
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Shoes wear out, find a pair you really like, then buy 5 more pair, because they will quit making the ones you like after a few years. This coming from a runner of 50 years, 61 years old and 3 Marathons, numerous Triathlons, beach runs and now can still run around the block at a 15 min pace and call that a workout, after 800mg of Motrin of course.
I knew this was going to be a good thread! You guys all Rock!

Exactly. Being religious about the 81mg baby aspirin too.
And, I coat my feet in icy-hot, and let it dry, before the socks go on for the evening run. LOL!

Last edited by Tycon; 24 May 2017 at 22:51.
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Old 24 May 2017, 23:01
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If you go minimalist, which I highly recommend, start out slowly or you will more than likely get injured. Once you get used to it you won't go back.
This, all of it.

Regarding the original post - shoes lose their support and cushion over time so you should replace yours regardless of the bruise.

There are many ways to lace that may solve this:
http://www.runnersworld[dot]com/running-tips/alternative-ways-to-tie-your-running-shoes

Regarding brand, it's like driving a car, shooting a gun or drinking a beer; personal preference.

Keep running!

H
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