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  #61  
Old 8 August 2019, 11:02
BionicDamien BionicDamien is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fu King Lawyer View Post
Poly,
I don't like where this whole process has gone.
It used to be someone could shoot of their mouth about blowing up work, or say "I'd like to eff her" and life went on.
Threats made coupled with an apparent ability, that caused fear of imminent harm in others were always actionable as crimes.
Attempts, where one could show a criminal intent and steps towards completion of that act were always actionable.
Conspiracy, where two or more persons shared a plan to commit a crime and one of them performed an overt act towards the crime, were always actionable.
But communicating, attempts and conspiracy law morphed especially in the AA/EEO arena where making a victim uncomfortable became administratively actionable. Then adding an element of "hate" to enhance criminal sanctions came in. It is to the point I don't recognize much of what all is going on.
I am pissed at a report this morning that the FBI monitoring social media notified local law enforcement of a potential threat. The FBI is not supposed to be monitoring people without a specific predicate - and they don't have plenary police power - our federal government is of limited jurisdiction. In my way of thinking, state and local law enforcement is where this "lead" should have come from. In small states lacking resources, the federal government's role is to give the state/locality a grant. Don't get me wrong, if the FBI wants to track terrorist cells made of up persons tied to foreign governments, fine, but we seem to have forgotten how we got in trouble monitoring the anti-war movement in the late 60s and the controls put in place after the Church Commission.
Sorry, I got to get off the soapbox -
v/r
fkl
You're a legitimate ocean of knowledge, full stop.
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  #62  
Old 8 August 2019, 11:02
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Polypro Polypro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDawg_03 View Post
In Georgia its called Terroristic Threats and Acts. It is a state charge, and believe me. the local 5.0 WILL charge you with it.
I was also thinking something about it being conveyed via the telecommunications network - especially any "cell" stuff went across any FCC controlled hardwired infrastructure.

But this is all academic BS anyway - you want a gun, you buy one somewhere that doesn't have an FFL, or steal it, or kill a cop for it (especially if you are on a one way mission anyway), or steal it from an FTX at your local military base, blah, blah, blah....
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
On February 20, 2018, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.”

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time”

“Take the guns first, go through due process second”

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court"
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  #63  
Old 8 August 2019, 11:06
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GPC GPC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Looks like it is being confirmed the shooter was a member of Antifa.
There goes the ministry of truth coverage.
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  #64  
Old 8 August 2019, 11:07
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Polypro Polypro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fu King Lawyer View Post
Poly,
I don't like where this whole process has gone.
It used to be someone could shoot of their mouth about blowing up work, or say "I'd like to eff her" and life went on.
Threats made coupled with an apparent ability, that caused fear of imminent harm in others were always actionable as crimes.
Attempts, where one could show a criminal intent and steps towards completion of that act were always actionable.
Conspiracy, where two or more persons shared a plan to commit a crime and one of them performed an overt act towards the crime, were always actionable.
But communicating, attempts and conspiracy law morphed especially in the AA/EEO arena where making a victim uncomfortable became administratively actionable. Then adding an element of "hate" to enhance criminal sanctions came in. It is to the point I don't recognize much of what all is going on.
I am pissed at a report this morning that the FBI monitoring social media notified local law enforcement of a potential threat. The FBI is not supposed to be monitoring people without a specific predicate - and they don't have plenary police power - our federal government is of limited jurisdiction. In my way of thinking, state and local law enforcement is where this "lead" should have come from. In small states lacking resources, the federal government's role is to give the state/locality a grant. Don't get me wrong, if the FBI wants to track terrorist cells made of up persons tied to foreign governments, fine, but we seem to have forgotten how we got in trouble monitoring the anti-war movement in the late 60s and the controls put in place after the Church Commission.
Sorry, I got to get off the soapbox -
v/r
fkl
I'm with ya, I must type 'Vandenburg v Ohio' at least once a month. I'm just saying, like it or not, is there something in place now, that made any of his threats a felony. Agree on FBI monitoring as well, see: My Avatar
__________________
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
On February 20, 2018, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.”

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time”

“Take the guns first, go through due process second”

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court"
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  #65  
Old 8 August 2019, 12:50
Fu King Lawyer Fu King Lawyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
I'm with ya, I must type 'Vandenburg v Ohio' at least once a month. I'm just saying, like it or not, is there something in place now, that made any of his threats a felony. Agree on FBI monitoring as well, see: My Avatar
Any present threat, coupled with apparent ability, that creates fear or apprehension..... I am not an Ohio attorney. But continuing with my thesis on federal encroachment into state law enforcement matters.

An intent to violate the law, sometimes called mens rea
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/mens_rea

Couple with action, particularly action that society wishes to proscribe, called actus rea (or reus)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/actus_reus


and a federal statute:
Title 18 USC Section 921
(25) The term "school zone" means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.

Section 922
(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's schools by enactment of this subsection.
(3)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.


And a statute generally regarded under the purview of BATF used by the FBI to assert federal jurisdiction.....

Probably enough evidence of a crime (under both state and federal law), probably would need a whole bunch of investigative work to get beyond probable cause and to the point of having evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. I am generally pro prosecution and others may (and should ) disagree.
v/r
fkl
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  #66  
Old 8 August 2019, 15:39
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hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fu King Lawyer View Post
Sorry, I got to get off the soapbox -
v/r
fkl
Please don't.

In fact, if I had my druthers you and a few others here would get together and put out a podcast on this stuff. Not kidding.

I run into plenty of people who understand that what's going on is bad, but aren't as articulate about telling other people why, who would eat that shit up. Definitely count myself in that group.
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  #67  
Old 8 August 2019, 16:50
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H60Gunner H60Gunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Looks like it is being confirmed the shooter was a member of Antifa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keganswar View Post
I saw this as well. I wonder if this will be the event that gets them designated as a terrorist organization.
Linkey?
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  #68  
Old 8 August 2019, 17:23
Keganswar Keganswar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H60Gunner View Post
Linkey?
Here you go,

https://nypost.com/2019/08/06/dayton-shooter-may-be-antifas-first-mass-killer/
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  #69  
Old 9 August 2019, 09:17
Fu King Lawyer Fu King Lawyer is offline
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From today's WSJ - FBI seeking bid for tools to search social media.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fbi-and...ng-11565277021

The Dept of Homeland Security has funded states to set up Fusion Centers, amongst other things to do just that.

https://www.dhs.gov/about-fusion-centers

So are the fusion centers working? If so, the FBI doesn't need to be doing this (and shouldn't be doing this).

The latest disclosure involving FBI - integrity is lacking....
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...eports-1454402

It's about time to transfer the investigative mission to the USMS and essentially abolish the Bureau. There is a malignancy that has spread thru that once proud organization and in order to get it all, some good cells are going to need to be excised in order to insure the survival of the patient (our United States).
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  #70  
Old 9 August 2019, 09:33
Stretch Stretch is offline
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Looks to me like Big Brother is trying to get bigger...

I no, sadly, I’m not surprised at all.
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  #71  
Old 9 August 2019, 10:21
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Polypro Polypro is offline
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And it all started as CYA for failing to prevent 9/11 even though they could have. Paging Ben Franklin quote, Mr. Ben Franklin quote, please pick up the white courtesy phone...
__________________
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
On February 20, 2018, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.”

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time”

“Take the guns first, go through due process second”

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court"
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  #72  
Old 9 August 2019, 13:28
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Ben would tell you what you need to do, and since the phone would be tapped by the NSA, he’d promptly be red flagged and dragged off to “homegrown domestic terrorist” land. With the majority of sheep in America bleating about “violence isn’t the answer!” and “this isn’t how a free democracy solves its problems!”. Blah blah blah, and more peasant pussy prattle.
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