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  #61  
Old 24 October 2014, 17:23
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Originally Posted by Matchanu View Post
Oh you're no fun.

No spittle to wipe off your computer moniter? No frothing at the mouth? No gnashing of the teeth?

Rage! Rage against the machine!


You know, even when it's presented here by members not only the know but where actually there when this all went down and they (, etc..) give us a unique perspective there are still going to be those who would rather blindly follow the rhetoric of the latest "outrage" by neverbeen shitbags sitting behind their computers making shit up.
Outstanding Observation

Last edited by rgrjoe175; 25 October 2014 at 13:05.
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  #62  
Old 24 October 2014, 22:59
Sgt Jeep Sgt Jeep is offline
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Are the four guys's lawyers planning to appeal? If the Iraq government dissolved, then .......
Yes, they are working on an appeal. 8 hrs ago, according to one of the wives the 4 are doing pretty good.

Keep praying fellas. These guys are going to need all they can get.
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  #63  
Old 24 October 2014, 23:34
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All non-US personnel killed are always innocent Civilian unless they die with AK-47 in the death grip.

All prisoner in Guantanamo Bay are all simple farmers who are misidentified.

All PGM target are weddings.

And of all the cultures and religions in the modern world, only Arabs and muslims never lie.

Vote Johan for Progressive Democratic Emperor of the West*. I will find copies of whatever documentation I need to allow me to receive votes.

Regards,

* If I am elected, in secret my security Man in dangerous places will be Blackwater veteran.
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  #64  
Old 25 October 2014, 08:04
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
That's not my understanding of the situation, and I do not base my thinking on news reports or internet lemming rhetoric....
It's weird. The people who are the most vocal about these guys getting screwed are those who weren't there and aren't involved. The people I have spoken to who were actually involved have all said it was a clown show, and that while they don't necessarily like the idea of them being prosecuted (or see flaws in the prosecution itself), they can't find much to defend.

I certainly wasn't there so I don't allow myself to have much of an opinion, if any at all. But that's my personal observation.
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  #65  
Old 25 October 2014, 11:15
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Originally Posted by Sgt Jeep View Post
Yes, they are working on an appeal. 8 hrs ago, according to one of the wives the 4 are doing pretty good.

Keep praying fellas. These guys are going to need all they can get.
Whoosh!
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  #66  
Old 25 October 2014, 11:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan View Post
All non-US personnel killed are always innocent Civilian unless they die with AK-47 in the death grip.

All prisoner in Guantanamo Bay are all simple farmers who are misidentified.

All PGM target are weddings.

And of all the cultures and religions in the modern world, only Arabs and muslims never lie.

Vote Johan for Progressive Democratic Emperor of the West*. I will find copies of whatever documentation I need to allow me to receive votes.

Regards,

* If I am elected, in secret my security Man in dangerous places will be Blackwater veteran.

Whoosh!
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  #67  
Old 25 October 2014, 13:16
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Originally Posted by KS11 View Post
It's weird. The people who are the most vocal about these guys getting screwed are those who weren't there and aren't involved. The people I have spoken to who were actually involved have all said it was a clown show, and that while they don't necessarily like the idea of them being prosecuted (or see flaws in the prosecution itself), they can't find much to defend.

I certainly wasn't there so I don't allow myself to have much of an opinion, if any at all. But that's my personal observation.
The legal proceedings are a political travesty. The machine gun felony charge is ridiculous. But the other charges are spot on.

Therein lies the crux.

It's not them getting prosecuted and convicted for their actions that I have a problem with (I support it) but that our legal system is being bent in all sorts of directions to do so (which I strongly disagree with).
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  #68  
Old 25 October 2014, 13:40
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Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
The legal proceedings are a political travesty. The machine gun felony charge is ridiculous. But the other charges are spot on.

Therein lies the crux.

It's not them getting prosecuted and convicted for their actions that I have a problem with (I support it) but that our legal system is being bent in all sorts of directions to do so (which I strongly disagree with).
...+1
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  #69  
Old 25 October 2014, 13:43
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Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
...but that our legal system is being bent in all sorts of directions to do so (which I strongly disagree with).
When a law has to be "massaged" to make it fit the crime or prosecution...it should be dropped. It's that simple. To do anything after that point is bad law.
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  #70  
Old 26 October 2014, 18:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchanu View Post
Whoosh!
“Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are too fast, I would catch it.”



Regards,
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  #71  
Old 30 October 2014, 07:50
IrishSoldier IrishSoldier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KS11 View Post
It's weird. The people who are the most vocal about these guys getting screwed are those who weren't there and aren't involved. The people I have spoken to who were actually involved have all said it was a clown show, and that while they don't necessarily like the idea of them being prosecuted (or see flaws in the prosecution itself), they can't find much to defend.

I certainly wasn't there so I don't allow myself to have much of an opinion, if any at all. But that's my personal observation.
I wasn't there (that day) and wasn't involved, but this case is complete bullshit.

The government destroyed key evidence and has no physical evidence of who shot whom.

Basically they offered one of them immunity (most probably the shooter who initiated fire) to role on the others. The government brought in Iraqi witnesses who are part of a law suit against the company and who believe they will be able to leave iraq if their suit is successful.

The government moved the venue several times in order to get a more friendly jury.

Also the defense was not able to go to Iraq, bring witnesses to the US to testify or introduce exculpatory evidence.
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Last edited by IrishSoldier; 30 October 2014 at 07:59.
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  #72  
Old 30 October 2014, 10:39
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Originally Posted by IrishSoldier View Post
I wasn't there (that day) and wasn't involved, but this case is complete bullshit.

The government destroyed key evidence and has no physical evidence of who shot whom.

Basically they offered one of them immunity (most probably the shooter who initiated fire) to role on the others. The government brought in Iraqi witnesses who are part of a law suit against the company and who believe they will be able to leave iraq if their suit is successful.

The government moved the venue several times in order to get a more friendly jury.

Also the defense was not able to go to Iraq, bring witnesses to the US to testify or introduce exculpatory evidence.

No doubt that it's a huge shit show. That's what I meant when I said:

Quote:
The people I have spoken to who were actually involved have all said it was a clown show, and that while they don't necessarily like the idea of them being prosecuted (or see flaws in the prosecution itself), they can't find much to defend.
But I see people defending them in two very different ways. There is the camp that focuses on the flaws in the trial/evidence/etc, and then there's the group that blindly defends them because of the contractor equivalent of the Thin Blue Line. I also believe that there's some sort of emotional aspect to the second group's stance.

Again, I wasn't there and have no personal first-hand knowledge of the situation, therefore I will limit my opinion to things I rate to have an opinion on (which isn't anything but the legal proceedings, if that).

But I also can't discard the opinion(s) of the folks I've spoken to who DO have first-hand knowledge of the event. And that opinion has basically been, "The legal proceedings are fucked up, but those guys (not ALL 15-20 dudes on the team) were absolute clowns, violated a bunch of policies and direct orders/instructions, and completely deserve anything that comes their way." In other words, they don't take ANY issue with the fact that the guys are being tried/convicted. The only problem they have is that the trial/conviction wasn't handled properly.
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  #73  
Old 13 April 2015, 22:51
Marvin Blank Marvin Blank is online now
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/four-blackwater-guards-sentenced-in-iraq-shootings-of-31-unarmed-civilians/2015/04/13/55b777e0-dee4-11e4-be40-566e2653afe5_story.html

Don't know the facts one way or another, but from what I have heard, these guys were so excessively reacting to shit with so little care that the charges are somewhat appropriate.

Either way, thoughts out to their families.
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  #74  
Old 14 April 2015, 16:26
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I know nothing which would entitle me to comment on the murder-related charges. I'm more concerned about how the weapons charges could be used as precedent, both for contractors overseas and - more importantly - for citizens in home defense situations domestically.
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  #75  
Old 14 April 2015, 17:56
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I think the moral to the story is, if the govt wants you in jail/prison, they are going to find a way to make it happen. There are precedents.....Rodney king trial being one of them. Found not guilty
( whether they were or not) then govt retried them and stuck them in prison.
This case is dangerous in many other ways and sets contractors overseas up for similar political prosecution if deemed necessary by the govt.
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  #76  
Old 4 August 2017, 14:15
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"A U.S. appeals court on Friday threw out the first-degree murder conviction of a former Blackwater Worldwide security guard sentenced to life in prison in the killings of 14 unarmed Iraqi civilians in a Baghdad traffic circle in 2007.

The court also ordered resentencings for three others convicted in the case."


Murder conviction in Blackwater case thrown out, other sentences overturned
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  #77  
Old 4 August 2017, 15:09
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Originally Posted by OfficeSloth View Post
"A U.S. appeals court on Friday threw out the first-degree murder conviction of a former Blackwater Worldwide security guard sentenced to life in prison in the killings of 14 unarmed Iraqi civilians in a Baghdad traffic circle in 2007.

The court also ordered resentencings for three others convicted in the case."


Murder conviction in Blackwater case thrown out, other sentences overturned
You beat me to it.
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  #78  
Old 4 August 2017, 15:25
Fu King Lawyer Fu King Lawyer is offline
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Here is the link to the opinion from the Court of Appeals for the D.C. circuit:

https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/6A43E282E3DC9FFE852581720053CBB5/$file/15-3078.pdf
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  #79  
Old 14 August 2019, 18:29
Fu King Lawyer Fu King Lawyer is offline
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Bringing back this thread. I feel for him. They re-tried him and finally got a conviction.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/f...tings-n1042366
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  #80  
Old 14 August 2019, 20:01
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Do you think his teammates who testified against him and said there was no attack at all were lying?
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