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  #21  
Old 9 August 2019, 07:02
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EchoFiveMike EchoFiveMike is offline
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^LP, the problem with that is your basically rewarding a con-man swindler for his crimes.

Banksters are predatory scum, taking away their risk/hazard was straight up evil, as well as stupid.

Why should college loan banksters be exempt from the due diligence we require of all the other lenders? S/F....Ken M
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  #22  
Old 9 August 2019, 07:15
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How are you being a con man or swindler to give out a loan. No different than a car loan or a mortgage. Here is a $50,000 college loan with a certain interest rate you have to pay back. Take it or don’t take it. You want to go to a private liberal arts college instead of a community college/state college - no different than taking out a loan for a Mercedes instead of a Honda.
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  #23  
Old 9 August 2019, 07:25
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No you see because if you want to simply forgive all student debt you're a socialist and agree with Bernie Sanders and AOC, and should be banned from this forum blah blah
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  #24  
Old 9 August 2019, 07:56
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EchoFiveMike EchoFiveMike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
How are you being a con man or swindler to give out a loan. No different than a car loan or a mortgage. Here is a $50,000 college loan with a certain interest rate you have to pay back. Take it or don’t take it. You want to go to a private liberal arts college instead of a community college/state college - no different than taking out a loan for a Mercedes instead of a Honda.
Most cons have multiple players.

"Hey kid you absolutely have to have a degree to get a job doing anything better than the Quik-E mart, and besides that's all owned by Apu and he only hires his cousins he brought in from Outer Shitholistan. Here, sign on the dotted line with my banker buddy, Hershel."

4 years later.

"Oh sorry about the jobs kid, they're all gone, seems hiring Pajeet on an H1B visa is cheaper. And they'll work 85hrs/week, wel;l, at least until they get that visa. But we've got that figured out and we just send them back a month before that happens. But ya know, I'm not a bad guy, you can drive this semi OTR 70 hrs a week until you pay that loan off. Let's see -beep boop- 2400 nice weekly payments and you'll be done in no time."

Open your eyes and start noticing the dice always come up their way. Stop accepting that some bullshit on paper means anything.

"Well, that's it then, the shitlibs passed a law banning guns, guess we just have to turn them all in." S/F...Ken M
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“The consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.”
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  #25  
Old 9 August 2019, 09:05
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In my case, it was “You’ll never climb the ladder if you don’t have a masters degree. Because, a bachelors degree is now the equivalent of a high school diploma.” Ok then, I’ll work on a masters. What!?!? $65k?!?! Guess I’ll bite the bullet and get a Fed Stafford and other loans to pay for it. I should be making twice what I am now once I earn the degree. Sooooo...go for it!
What they don’t tell you on the outset is what your monthly payment will be once you graduate. My $65k loan shot up to $93k because the loan compounds interest while you’re in school. Then you scrape to get by post graduation, making the minimum payments...as a the interest compounds more and more. Until what you thought would be a manageable payment has ballooned into 3x - 4x the original loan amount.
But, as was stated earlier, the banks and .gov (Congress) shook hands behind closed doors and at uber expensive restaurants, and essentially locked us into perpetual debt.
Like I said, if I had the chance to do it over I would not have gone down the “you need a graduate degree” road. Shoulda stuck with my undergrad degree with my GI Bill and been done.
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  #26  
Old 9 August 2019, 10:24
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After reading this thread, I can honestly say I've known Shylocks with more integrity than some banks.
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  #27  
Old 9 August 2019, 10:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Simple. Don’t want a student loan, do not take one out. If you take one out, you understood the terms, pay back your loan.

The mentality of “I took out a loan”, now I want the govt to pay it back for me is BS.

Young people, know what you are getting into and if so take out student loans make sure you are using them for something that profitably pays in returns - like a degree in nursing, pharmacy, engineering, agriculture, etc.

This is why you have people like Mayor Buttigieg whining “oh, poor me, I have 100,00 in student loan debts cause I decided to study at an expensive school and get a liberal arts degree and think the govt. should take care of my loan for me”.

Chokeu2, sounds like of course you do not have the issue if not paying, but a credit company that is incompetent and dishonest - sounds like you need a agency, lawyer and/or financial planner to sort this out. Best to you.
Everything you said is true bro. There is the massive entitlement issue with the generation that wants free college, or to avoid paying back their loans. Thing is, they aren't the problem yet.

It's the insidious issue that these lenders have managed to become so predatory, so out of control, and have such poor data accuracy that they've lost track of who's actually paid, and they cannot account for it. The fed knows this, knows that they've let the banks get out of control in their manipulations.

Now there are millions of people who have paid, been paying, yet the money just disappears. THIS is the crux of the student loan issue. I've been fighting this since I paid my loan off the second fucking time almost 6 years ago.

The bomb that comes with the current generations loan proceeds and repayment hasn't even stepped on the scale yet. The really insidious issue is that the current providers cannot account for the loans that currently exist with any degree of accuracy. No one in that industry can afford for that to become general public knowledge.

It would be one of the largest, if not the largest scandal in US government financial history. They government took out, and made examples of predatory "pay day" loan providers. This issue is EXACTLY that, almost to the letter, but it's simply "guaranteed by the US Federal Government". Said more specifically, the US Government and its banker backers are in the predatory loan business.
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  #28  
Old 9 August 2019, 11:52
Stretch Stretch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chokeu2 View Post
I've been trying for YEARS. That's why I'm asking for fucking help. I do not want to pay this off for the third fucking time. Because it will only result in starting on paying it off for the fourth time.
What’s you next move?

I’m thinking attorney or some sort of representative that has a half an idea but how this shit works. I agree it’s sucky. Or probably more…

In cases like this, I referred to contract law. I’m not an attorney but most contracts have conditions and terms.

I hope you get this squared away.

S
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  #29  
Old 9 August 2019, 12:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
What’s you next move?

I’m thinking attorney or some sort of representative that has a half an idea but how this shit works. I agree it’s sucky. Or probably more…

In cases like this, I referred to contract law. I’m not an attorney but most contracts have conditions and terms.

I hope you get this squared away.

S
Yes, an attorney is the way. Thing is, because of the history of this issue, so far, the ones I've reached out to avoid this like it's an electrified third rail.

The irony is that these loan providers are not even able to provide their own t's and c's to millions of borrowers. That's how PHEEA was able to be sued in the first place. They're covering that open wound be locking the 10 bundled class action lawsuits against them up in court. While going after the people involved in them.

I recently re-ignited my fight with them, and lo and behold, I get the garnishment notice. That's how they play, and that's why they stand to win this fight. The people that they're ripping off cannot afford to fight them, and they actively punish the people trying to make them stop ripping people off. That's left out of the media narrative.
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  #30  
Old 9 August 2019, 14:24
greenpants45 greenpants45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Simple. Don’t want a student loan, do not take one out. If you take one out, you understood the terms, pay back your loan.

The mentality of “I took out a loan”, now I want the govt to pay it back for me is BS.

Young people, know what you are getting into and if so take out student loans make sure you are using them for something that profitably pays in returns - like a degree in nursing, pharmacy, engineering, agriculture, etc.

This is why you have people like Mayor Buttigieg whining “oh, poor me, I have 100,00 in student loan debts cause I decided to study at an expensive school and get a liberal arts degree and think the govt. should take care of my loan for me”.

Chokeu2, sounds like of course you do not have the issue if not paying, but a credit company that is incompetent and dishonest - sounds like you need a agency, lawyer and/or financial planner to sort this out. Best to you.
The major hole in this is that 99% of people don't understand the terms, to include the face man pushing the loan. I took out a mortgage from an agent who knew less about the repayment system than I did. APR and "affordable monthly payments" are the major tools that lenders use to hide how much a loan actually costs.

Everyone would be advised to learn about interest first payments (the defacto method of almost all loan payments these days) and how that affects your ability to pay off a loan. This is the tool that lenders use to put the screws to you via "compound interest" (true compound interest is a separate thing, but this is a close enough analog). The way it works is this: you submit your monthly payment and the lender lops the accrued interest off the top and applies what is left to your principal, this ensures that your principal goes down slower and there is more of it the next month for them to charge you interest on that they will take off the top of your payment before applying the rest to principal in a loop until you (hopefully) get it paid off. This is why, when I was considering buying a house, I researched interest rates and used them to calculate how much house I could afford on monthly payments that I calculated, not the bank's calculated monthly payment. The best way to do this is to calculate your monthly payment based on principal alone, then calculate your total interest for the year based on your principal balance, convert to a monthly interest only payment and add that to your principal only monthly payment to get a total monthly payment. If you make your payments on this schedule, you will pay off your loan early and save thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands in interest. Tell all your friends how not to get swindled by the lenders.
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  #31  
Old 9 August 2019, 15:55
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chokeu2 chokeu2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenpants45 View Post
The major hole in this is that 99% of people don't understand the terms, to include the face man pushing the loan. I took out a mortgage from an agent who knew less about the repayment system than I did. APR and "affordable monthly payments" are the major tools that lenders use to hide how much a loan actually costs.

Everyone would be advised to learn about interest first payments (the defacto method of almost all loan payments these days) and how that affects your ability to pay off a loan. This is the tool that lenders use to put the screws to you via "compound interest" (true compound interest is a separate thing, but this is a close enough analog). The way it works is this: you submit your monthly payment and the lender lops the accrued interest off the top and applies what is left to your principal, this ensures that your principal goes down slower and there is more of it the next month for them to charge you interest on that they will take off the top of your payment before applying the rest to principal in a loop until you (hopefully) get it paid off. This is why, when I was considering buying a house, I researched interest rates and used them to calculate how much house I could afford on monthly payments that I calculated, not the bank's calculated monthly payment. The best way to do this is to calculate your monthly payment based on principal alone, then calculate your total interest for the year based on your principal balance, convert to a monthly interest only payment and add that to your principal only monthly payment to get a total monthly payment. If you make your payments on this schedule, you will pay off your loan early and save thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands in interest. Tell all your friends how not to get swindled by the lenders.
Actually, the issue is that, at least in PHEEA's case is that they cannot produce their own loan documents. They cannot produce records of monies paid to them. They are quite literally ignoring the payments that people make, and do not reduce balances. Then when called on it, they cannot produce any of their records. And because they do not account for payments made, they go ahead and put more interest on top of what's already present.

This isn't all that much about people not understanding t's and c's, or not wanting to pay back their loans. That's a media created story, and a political strategy. This is about straight up fraud, intimidation, and theft. Hundreds of thousands of people have been paying, have paid their loans off many times over, and then treated to predatory collection practices like garnishment out of nowhere, after they call a hearing that you're supposed to attend, but you're never informed of.

See... that's not a nice neat package of a new story. Millenials wanting free college, and the associated bickering back and forth sells more and gets more clicks than the complicated, yet brash reality of the situation. And that's because it is a prime example of the US Federal government being complicate in crime with American bankers. Lots of people, so called "predatory lenders", and "pay day" loan people are in prison for THIS EXACT thing.
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  #32  
Old 11 August 2019, 00:12
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wildman43 wildman43 is offline
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Did you make your loan with them or did they buy it ??? note below.


What does Default mean?
Default on a Federal Family Education Loan Program (FFELP) loan occurs when you fail to make payments and your loan reaches 270 days of delinquency. When your Federal student loan reaches 270 days delinquent, the lender of your loan(s) submits a claim to the guarantor (PHEAA) to purchase the loan(s).

Back To Top
What should you do if your student loan defaults?
Contact us immediately at 1-800-233-0751 to find out what repayment options are available and to avoid additional consequences.

Back To Top
How do I contact PHEAA?


By telephone

1-800-233-0751 Toll-Free (United States, Canada)
(717) 720-3400 (international)
TTY: Dial 711 (for hearing and speech-impaired callers)

Representatives are available Monday to Thursday, 8:00 AM to 9:00 PM (ET), and Friday, 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM (ET).

Our interactive voice response system is available 24 hours a day (except for occasional maintenance).



By fax

(717) 720-3644 Attn: Default Collections



By email

default@pheaa.org

Please note: Email is not a secure method of communication as it can be intercepted by third parties. Do not include any sensitive or private information in your email to PHEAA.



By U.S. Mail

For general correspondence:
PHEAA Default Collections
P.O. Box 8147
Harrisburg, PA 17105-8147

For credit disputes:
PHEAA Default Collections
P.O. Box 61017
Harrisburg, PA 17106-1017

For express or overnight deliveries:
PHEAA Default Collections
1200 N. 7th St.
Harrisburg, PA 17102

For payments (except payoffs):
PHEAA
P.O. Box 1375
Buffalo, NY 14240-1375

For payoffs (payments in full):
PHEAA Default Collections
P.O. Box 8147
Harrisburg, PA 17105-8147

NOTE: Please do not send correspondence to our payment address.
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  #33  
Old 11 August 2019, 07:50
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MakoZeroSix MakoZeroSix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoFiveMike View Post
Most cons have multiple players.

"Hey kid you absolutely have to have a degree to get a job doing anything better than the Quik-E mart, and besides that's all owned by Apu and he only hires his cousins he brought in from Outer Shitholistan. Here, sign on the dotted line with my banker buddy, Hershel."

4 years later.

"Oh sorry about the jobs kid, they're all gone, seems hiring Pajeet on an H1B visa is cheaper. And they'll work 85hrs/week, wel;l, at least until they get that visa. But we've got that figured out and we just send them back a month before that happens. But ya know, I'm not a bad guy, you can drive this semi OTR 70 hrs a week until you pay that loan off. Let's see -beep boop- 2400 nice weekly payments and you'll be done in no time."

Open your eyes and start noticing the dice always come up their way. Stop accepting that some bullshit on paper means anything.

"Well, that's it then, the shitlibs passed a law banning guns, guess we just have to turn them all in." S/F...Ken M

Yes but does "Hershel" the banker tell the kid he needs a degree to get a good job? Does he bring in the H1B visa people? Is he the reason why the kid can't do a google search and figure out that becoming an electrician or an HVAC specialist is a far better deal than racking up tons of debt to get a humanities degree from an out of state college? Is he at fault because the kids parents don't insist that the kid go to school in the state where they are a resident.

And as far as all the talk of "Hershel" and "Shylocks" in this thread.- why don't you just go ahead and tell everybody about what "Muh Six Gorillion" is...

Quote:
To address a main theme I'm seeing here, and also it's a very common one in the 'real world' as well, the idea that "You took out the student loans, YOU pay them back!" is, well............... "boomer" mentality. That's not DD being an asshole, that's just what GenZ has labeled it as and I'm just relaying it back to 'you guys'. Every "zoomer" that hears it out of some wrinkly gray-hair's mouth makes them even more infuriated. Because, to them, it's literally 'you' ignoring what's being done to an entire generation of your children and grandchildren. Ignoring their suffering. And what's worse or more contemptible than a parent/grandparent ignoring the unnecessary suffering of their children?

The crux of the matter is that we have inflated away college degrees and simultaneously brainwashed the youth into wholeheartedly believing that in order to be successful in life you NEED a college liberal brainwashing called "college". But that's not exactly wrong, is it? The more degrees are inflated away, the more you actually need one just to be a 'baseline' candidate for an interview. To get ahead as a entry-level candidate you need an advanced degree (even more debt). And who sets up the interviews? HR watchdogs. And they zealously enforce the 'need a college degree to even get an appointment' mindset. It's a self-reinforcing feedback loop that keeps on churning out debt slaves into the workforce. It kills self-sufficiency and independence. There are really no positive advantages to this system at all. I could go on and on about how destructive and self-defeating the Student Loan racketeering scheme is, but it's all stuff I'm sure you all have heard before.

The absolute root of all this fucking evil is the same damn place most other problems in America arise from: Bankers. Secondary are the Politicians and Communists™, but the goddamn shit-ass Bankers are the prime shitheads in all this. They are predatory lenders using the naivety of young people to get them as far in debt as humanly possible, knowing that the vast majority will never EVER be able to get out from under the debt load until they are well into their 40s, maybe even 50s. They know this. This is straight-up no hyperbole, no bullshit Usury. And there's a reason that for over 2000 years Usurious practitioners were burned alive or otherwise excommunicated. Compound interest is a tool of goddamn Satan. Even more so when it's hidden and peddled like a drug. In all the fairy tales and stories even goddamn Lucifer is more upfront about the cost of the bargains he strikes -- than the banks are within their fine print. And I'm not even coming at that from a biblical standpoint. That's something even the most hardcore atheist can probably agree with. And this isn't some tens or a hundred thousand people. These are tens of millions of young people, even more. And entire generation disenfranchised and sentenced to almost perpetual wage-slavery. A living nightmare of a debtors prison you can never leave, because there are no walls. This is not something that is conducive to a healthy and prosperous nation.

Fuck the banks. Fuck the liberal rat schools that profit off these schemes. Fuck the politicians that allow this stuff to continue so that they can pander to the poor shits that they've allowed to fall sway to this dark practice. Fuck them all to death. Allow the kids to declare bankruptcy. Pop this bubble and start watching the assholes on wall street jump to their deaths from tall buildings. Let it crash the economy. I don't give a flying shit. It's better to live free than die a goddamn miserable debt slave in a land where no one knows your name, no one cares about you, and you're essentially just existing in a gigantic revolving hostel with economic and legal enforcement drones buzzing about every second of every day. So just pop this bubble and we can actually start to solve most of this nation's problems the way most problems in history are solved.

I would watch that chaos on loop while sipping on some coffee in the morning.
First of all, stud, you would probably be the only one here that would enjoy civilization ending chaos. The rest of us who have nice families and nice things would rather it not happen. I'm sorry your life is so miserable and without meaning you want our civilization to burn, and that this country seems like a "revolving hostel" to you.

Secondly, you and the rest of your God Emperor Trump FB page buddies seem to be obsessed with "Boomers" and not understand what a "Boomer" really is. You realize actual boomers are all like fucking 70 and retired, right? It is Generation X who is running the show now, so if you want to complain about your elders, at least pick the right ones.

I took on tons of student debt back in the early 90s and only managed to pay it all off a couple years ago. I didn't cry about it. I didn't have to take that money. Having that degree checked a useful block, however, and now I have a great job. This thread seems to be more of a technical issue that ChokeU2 has to figure out and not a "Waaaah, I was robbed by the system".

Come to think of it, I'll bet you'd like to tell us about #MuhSixGorillion just as much as your boy E5M would...
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  #34  
Old 11 August 2019, 08:16
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Right now Associates Degrees at our local community college in Respiratory Therapist and Sonography are having 100% job placement and starting salaries of $50,000 +. That is good money in central Indiana. And one year of college at Ivy Tech cost ~ $4500. Hec, work at McDonalds and they are now giving $3000 for college. So, yeah I have to agree with Mako, if a kid decides he wants to go to that prestige liberal arts college, racking up $80,000 in student loans to get a degree in “Peace and Justice Studies” or “French Literature” like two of my relative recently did - then not much sympathy for me.

Now good friend of mine, talking to him yesterday about this. He and his wife paying off her student loan. She went and got a Masters in CRNA ten years ago. They took out around $70,000 in loans. But she got a job starting at $135k a year with a $25k sign on bonus. She probably is making more now since almost ten years in the job. Not a bad investment.
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  #35  
Old 11 August 2019, 08:34
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Am I reading this right: The OP and others have paid off loans twice?

If so, why?

My daughter graduated this week with her Masters of Science of Speech Therapy. She has loans no doubt but also chose a field that will almost guarantee her a job.
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  #36  
Old 11 August 2019, 09:03
8654maine 8654maine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macka View Post
Am I reading this right: The OP and others have paid off loans twice?

If so, why?

My daughter graduated this week with her Masters of Science of Speech Therapy. She has loans no doubt but also chose a field that will almost guarantee her a job.
That's what I'm reading.

It seems that the bank is neglecting the payoff and double charging the OP.

Lawyer up. SEC. BBB. Find where they live...
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  #37  
Old 11 August 2019, 09:16
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chokeu2 chokeu2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildman43 View Post
Did you make your loan with them or did they buy it ??? note below.


What does Default mean?
Default on a Federal Family Education Loan Program (FFELP) loan occurs when you fail to make payments and your loan reaches 270 days of delinquency. When your Federal student loan reaches 270 days delinquent, the lender of your loan(s) submits a claim to the guarantor (PHEAA) to purchase the loan(s).

Back To Top
What should you do if your student loan defaults?
Contact us immediately at 1-800-233-0751 to find out what repayment options are available and to avoid additional consequences.

Back To Top
How do I contact PHEAA?


By telephone

1-800-233-0751 Toll-Free (United States, Canada)
(717) 720-3400 (international)
TTY: Dial 711 (for hearing and speech-impaired callers)

Representatives are available Monday to Thursday, 8:00 AM to 9:00 PM (ET), and Friday, 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM (ET).

Our interactive voice response system is available 24 hours a day (except for occasional maintenance).



By fax

(717) 720-3644 Attn: Default Collections



By email

default@pheaa.org

Please note: Email is not a secure method of communication as it can be intercepted by third parties. Do not include any sensitive or private information in your email to PHEAA.



By U.S. Mail

For general correspondence:
PHEAA Default Collections
P.O. Box 8147
Harrisburg, PA 17105-8147

For credit disputes:
PHEAA Default Collections
P.O. Box 61017
Harrisburg, PA 17106-1017

For express or overnight deliveries:
PHEAA Default Collections
1200 N. 7th St.
Harrisburg, PA 17102

For payments (except payoffs):
PHEAA
P.O. Box 1375
Buffalo, NY 14240-1375

For payoffs (payments in full):
PHEAA Default Collections
P.O. Box 8147
Harrisburg, PA 17105-8147

NOTE: Please do not send correspondence to our payment address.
They purchased the loan at some point. I was never informed when it happened, and it never was in default. The only thing that happened when they bought it was that the balanced stopped decreasing as I paid, and they could not show any reason why. They could not show any documents at all.

So I'm not sure what the point of posting all of that was.
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  #38  
Old 11 August 2019, 09:20
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chokeu2 chokeu2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macka View Post
Am I reading this right: The OP and others have paid off loans twice?

If so, why?

My daughter graduated this week with her Masters of Science of Speech Therapy. She has loans no doubt but also chose a field that will almost guarantee her a job.
Yes, you are absolutely reading that right. I've been stuck in this cycle because there is little no recourse towards the provider, only the borrower in the case of PHEEA. If I do not pay, they will garnish and take it. I'll say it again, I have all of my payment records, I have requested audits and their documentation, and they simply ignore the requests. Period.

Until October of 2016, they were protected from being sued because they were, and still are operating under the guise of a government agency. Now they have 10 bundled class action suits against them because of what I just described. They cannot produce something on the order of 80-90% of their loan documents and accounting records, and they cannot justify why they've added predatory interest amounts to borrowers accounts with zero justification for doing so.
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  #39  
Old 11 August 2019, 09:31
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MakoZeroSix MakoZeroSix is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chokeu2 View Post
Yes, you are absolutely reading that right. I've been stuck in this cycle because there is little no recourse towards the provider, only the borrower in the case of PHEEA. If I do not pay, they will garnish and take it. I'll say it again, I have all of my payment records, I have requested audits and their documentation, and they simply ignore the requests. Period.

Until October of 2016, they were protected from being sued because they were, and still are operating under the guise of a government agency. Now they have 10 bundled class action suits against them because of what I just described. They cannot produce something on the order of 80-90% of their loan documents and accounting records, and they cannot justify why they've added predatory interest amounts to borrowers accounts with zero justification for doing so.
In order to get your wages garnished, they have to take you to court from what I understand. At the court hearing could you not merely provide evidence that the debt had been paid to the judge?

Maybe time to get a lawyer.
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  #40  
Old 11 August 2019, 10:29
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EchoFiveMike EchoFiveMike is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoZeroSix View Post
Secondly, you and the rest of your God Emperor Trump FB page buddies seem to be obsessed with "Boomers" and not understand what a "Boomer" really is. You realize actual boomers are all like fucking 70 and retired, right? It is Generation X who is running the show now, so if you want to complain about your elders, at least pick the right ones.
Boomer Gen is 1946-1966, so 2019-1966=53. Math is hard, right? You could have just googled it, unlike the kids in the 1990's picking colleges/careers, having to rely on their elders, who straight up cornholed them.

Coincidentally, union electrician I was talking to at the block party last night was complaining about all the ancient assholes who just won't retire, clogging it up for the younger guys; there's inadequate apprentices because the boomers won't leave. As well as simply being hazardous, slow and decrepit. And then the cops started in about the old fucks who have to be forced out with age limits, and then some come back as unsworn civvie employees.

So maybe you should talk to more blue collar actual Americans.

ChokeU2 should lawyer up, probably also talk to the ombudsman at his Congresscritters office. S/F....Ken M
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