SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 15 May 2018, 17:10
256's Avatar
256 256 is offline
Navigating
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
We run AACs on our 10.5" 416s and they have been great. I honestly didn't know a .30 cal can would work so well on a 556.
We haven’t got our 416s yet but did get our Surefire suppressors. I use a DI select-fire now and holy shit, what a pain in the ass. I was unaware how dirty the weapon gets. There’s a couple guys running piston guns, I thought there would be a huge benefit, they seem to get just as dirty. I have to use a bunch of lube, the upper gets so hot regular CLP burns out of it quickly. I made up a concoction of lube that was suggested to me, seems to do a really good job.

For my DI gun, would an adjustable gas block make a difference? Would it be worth the investment?
__________________
Kiowas are small, carrying just two people; they fly so low the two flying soldiers are practically infantrymen.

- Excerpt from Gates of Fire, Michael Yon
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 15 May 2018, 17:42
hawkdrver's Avatar
hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
Red Headed Stepchild
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North
Posts: 2,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
We havenít got our 416s yet but did get our Surefire suppressors. I use a DI select-fire now and holy shit, what a pain in the ass. I was unaware how dirty the weapon gets. Thereís a couple guys running piston guns, I thought there would be a huge benefit, they seem to get just as dirty. I have to use a bunch of lube, the upper gets so hot regular CLP burns out of it quickly. I made up a concoction of lube that was suggested to me, seems to do a really good job.

For my DI gun, would an adjustable gas block make a difference? Would it be worth the investment?
I think I still have the record for thread resurrections, but more importantly, does Duck still have a hog problem?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 15 May 2018, 19:39
GPC's Avatar
GPC GPC is offline
Bitter old man.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LOFD
Posts: 6,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
We havenít got our 416s yet but did get our Surefire suppressors. I use a DI select-fire now and holy shit, what a pain in the ass. I was unaware how dirty the weapon gets. Thereís a couple guys running piston guns, I thought there would be a huge benefit, they seem to get just as dirty. I have to use a bunch of lube, the upper gets so hot regular CLP burns out of it quickly. I made up a concoction of lube that was suggested to me, seems to do a really good job.

For my DI gun, would an adjustable gas block make a difference? Would it be worth the investment?
Try SEAL-1 dude.
__________________
Steel Rain Brings The Pain!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 15 May 2018, 20:35
Chimo's Avatar
Chimo Chimo is offline
FIDO
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 3,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC View Post
Try SEAL-1 dude.
If you decide to I may have some you can try.
__________________
Quote:
I'd shoot a chipmunk if it kicked my door in wearing a ski mask.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 15 May 2018, 20:36
Akheloce Akheloce is offline
Six Minutes!
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Alaska
Posts: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
We havenít got our 416s yet but did get our Surefire suppressors. I use a DI select-fire now and holy shit, what a pain in the ass. I was unaware how dirty the weapon gets. Thereís a couple guys running piston guns, I thought there would be a huge benefit, they seem to get just as dirty. I have to use a bunch of lube, the upper gets so hot regular CLP burns out of it quickly. I made up a concoction of lube that was suggested to me, seems to do a really good job.

For my DI gun, would an adjustable gas block make a difference? Would it be worth the investment?
I'm far from an expert, but I run a can- Silencerco Omega on my 300 Blackout pistol (10.5") barrel. I run a JP adjustable gas block, and it helps a lot. In fact, since I run with the can on, and off sometimes, I'd almost consider it necessary so that it is not overgassed when suppressed. The only PITA is that the allen wrench that fits under the forestock to the gas block is easy to lose or forget.
__________________
RIP Sitka 43 and ICY 33

Seven Ö six Ö eleven Ö five Ö nine-aní-twenty mile today
Four Ö eleven Ö seventeen Ö thirty-two the day before ó

"Just remember son, 80% of the people in this world are fucking idiots"- My Dad
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 15 May 2018, 21:01
256's Avatar
256 256 is offline
Navigating
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 452
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC View Post
Try SEAL-1 dude.
I saw someone using that in the class I am in, Iíll check it out. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimo View Post
If you decide to I may have some you can try.
Thank you, Iíll give it a shot tomorrow. Curious to see if it works better than what I made up at home. If anyone is curious, the mixture is Mobile 1 10w 30, Lucas transmission oil, and one 10oz bottle of hoppyís #9. It came highly recommended by the instructors of the class Iím in. Works quite well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
I'm far from an expert, but I run a can- Silencerco Omega on my 300 Blackout pistol (10.5") barrel. I run a JP adjustable gas block, and it helps a lot. In fact, since I run with the can on, and off sometimes, I'd almost consider it necessary so that it is not overgassed when suppressed. The only PITA is that the allen wrench that fits under the forestock to the gas block is easy to lose or forget.
Ok, thanks. I saw a few for sale that had small levers, I tend to lose stuff. That might be a better option for me. Something else I didnít think about was the added weight to the front of the rifle. Doing some CQB stuff in this class and my left arm at the end of the day is smoked. Howís your point of impact shift when you go from suppressed to unsuppressed? Iím going to check that out on mine tomorrow. Also, I put some antiseize stuff on the flashhider, makes getting the suppressor off a little easier.
__________________
Kiowas are small, carrying just two people; they fly so low the two flying soldiers are practically infantrymen.

- Excerpt from Gates of Fire, Michael Yon
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 15 May 2018, 21:04
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is offline
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,891
Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
We haven’t got our 416s yet but did get our Surefire suppressors. I use a DI select-fire now and holy shit, what a pain in the ass. I was unaware how dirty the weapon gets. There’s a couple guys running piston guns, I thought there would be a huge benefit, they seem to get just as dirty. I have to use a bunch of lube, the upper gets so hot regular CLP burns out of it quickly. I made up a concoction of lube that was suggested to me, seems to do a really good job.

For my DI gun, would an adjustable gas block make a difference? Would it be worth the investment?
First, check to see if the gun is over- or under-gassed. No reason to run an adjustable gas block is the gun is gassed right.

Second, start using Hornady TAP SBR ammo. They make both a training and a duty version. Much cleaner, and a lot less flame out the business end.

A piston gun gets just as dirty as a gas gun. Only difference is where the gun gets dirty. Gas guns get dirty further back, piston guns up front.

In 5.56, I have a BCM SBR and a DD SBR, both gas, and a LMT piston SBR. I prefer the gas guns.

ETA: Go to a craft store, like Michael's. They have pipe cleaners that are 24" long. Run those thru the gas tube on your gas SBR, really helps.
__________________
Lifeís barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 15 May 2018, 21:19
Akheloce Akheloce is offline
Six Minutes!
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Alaska
Posts: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post



Ok, thanks. I saw a few for sale that had small levers, I tend to lose stuff. That might be a better option for me. Something else I didnít think about was the added weight to the front of the rifle. Doing some CQB stuff in this class and my left arm at the end of the day is smoked. Howís your point of impact shift when you go from suppressed to unsuppressed? Iím going to check that out on mine tomorrow. Also, I put some antiseize stuff on the flashhider, makes getting the suppressor off a little easier.
The POI shift is measurable, but not memorable. I remember that I wanted to compare the two the first time I shot it, but I don't remember that it was enough to worry about... something like less than an inch at 75 yards or so.

The positive of the JP adjustable block is that it is more than "off" or "on", it has several detents to match the gas needed for different loads. This may or may not be useful to your situation.

My SC Omega is pretty darn light, and since I went from being used to an M4 to a 10.5" pistol with the suppressor, I don't recall it feeling particularly front heavy. Keep in mind, that I haven't done an 8 hour stint at the range or funhouse (shooting/standing with M4/M16/MP5 for training) in almost 20 years.
__________________
RIP Sitka 43 and ICY 33

Seven Ö six Ö eleven Ö five Ö nine-aní-twenty mile today
Four Ö eleven Ö seventeen Ö thirty-two the day before ó

"Just remember son, 80% of the people in this world are fucking idiots"- My Dad
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 16 May 2018, 12:32
bobofthedesert's Avatar
bobofthedesert bobofthedesert is offline
RIP SOTB, Cass, Hognose
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Middle of the Mojave
Posts: 3,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
We run AACs on our 10.5" 416s and they have been great. I honestly didn't know a .30 cal can would work so well on a 556.
Manufacturer's like to wonk endlessly about their baffle stacks when in fact conventional machine tool technology limits what "can" be done, and they've all been ripping each other off for baffle designs for years while threatening to sue (Gemtech is particularly known for this) if you copy their stuff when in fact they did exactly the same. Mickey Finn patented what he designed decades ago but never went after anyone in court and his designs are the basis for most of what is made even today.

People forget that when it comes to suppressor performance, the most dominant aspect of any design is this: "tube internal volume". True 3 decades ago, still true now. Gas blow by is much less important than people think. Witness all the 9mm pistol cans being used with .300 BO subsonic ammo. There's so little pressure at the end of a 8"-10" barrel that the tube internal volume is more than capable of handling what's left, and .30 going through a .36 baffle stack/end cap actually winds up being a good thing considering varying twist rates and projectile weights, minimizing the possibility of a baffle strike, next to impossible even with the increased mechanical error of using an adaptor.
__________________
RIP Stevie D. 1964-2012
U.S. Army Veteran of OIF 2003
"Gone But Never Forgotten"

"In Flanders fields the poppies blow
between the crosses, row on row...."
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 17 May 2018, 01:36
256's Avatar
256 256 is offline
Navigating
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 452
Great information, thanks! We did a night shoot a few hours ago. It was tough to see the target after a few rounds because of all the gas in my face. Gavin, is that an indication Iím over gassed? Are the pipe cleaners for that purpose, cleaning? Sorry for the noob questions, I appreciate the help.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 402B5339-2CB5-4B80-BB1D-DAB36F9165A4.jpg (16.2 KB, 227 views)
__________________
Kiowas are small, carrying just two people; they fly so low the two flying soldiers are practically infantrymen.

- Excerpt from Gates of Fire, Michael Yon
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 17 May 2018, 09:00
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is offline
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,891
You're going to get gas in your face with most AR SBRs, even properly gassed guns.

Watch this excellent video by Ivan at Kit Badger, it's four minutes long, and tells you everything you need to know about under- and over-gassed guns.

The pipe cleaners will get most of the debris out of your gas tube. SBR AR gas tubes get a lot dirtier than AR carbines and rifles.
__________________
Lifeís barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 17 May 2018, 11:32
Sharky's Avatar
Sharky Sharky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: SOCNET
Posts: 19,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
You're going to get gas in your face with most AR SBRs, even properly gassed guns.


I have heard the Gas Busters work well to minimize it but I haven't actually tried one yet. I'm guessing you have.

My AAC should be out of ATF Jail soon so I am probably going to wind up buying one.
__________________
I was born my papa's son
When I hit the ground I was on the run
I had one glad hand and the other behind
You can have yours, just give me mine
When the hound dog barkin' in the black of the night
Stick my hand in my pocket, everything's all right

-ZZ Top
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 17 May 2018, 11:36
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is offline
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,891
None of my personal SBRs gas me so badly that Iíve had to try any of the common fixes. Good eye pro solves the issue for me.
__________________
Lifeís barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 18 May 2018, 11:27
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7,278
I have a various assortment of cans now since my prior post from 2013. AAC SDN06s and AAC SDNs in 7.62, Griffin SPR and RSTAs, AEM5s, and a handful of "solvent trap" conversions I did for fun (6" and 10"). I have gas busters on a few rifles (my mk12 clones and my 10.5" LWRC).

Out of all, I'd say my hands down favorite is the AEM5 on the Mk12. It is noticeably quieter than any other can. Plus I love the 'reflex' models ---- and was what influenced me to go that route for my RSTA and SPR suppressors. I plan on picking up at least 2 more AEM5s in the future.

The most interesting thing I have found is that, to my ear, my 'shitty' 6" solvent trap on a 10.5" DI gun performs just as well as my 7.62 SDN-06. As far as gas in the face goes ---- I honestly did not notice a difference between the PRI Gasbuster charging handle vs a regular mil-spec, but I was wearing some M-frames at the time so that might be the reason. I can say I do not notice any gas in my face without eye pro on the Mk12. But I have not shot it with a regular charging handle so I can't say for sure. Weather says it's going to be a fantastic weekend up where I'm at so I might have an excuse to do some shooting tomorrow to find out.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 20 May 2018, 22:21
bobofthedesert's Avatar
bobofthedesert bobofthedesert is offline
RIP SOTB, Cass, Hognose
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Middle of the Mojave
Posts: 3,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
The most interesting thing I have found is that, to my ear, my 'shitty' 6" solvent trap on a 10.5" DI gun performs just as well as my 7.62 SDN-06.
Wonder what the internal volume is comparatively.....
__________________
RIP Stevie D. 1964-2012
U.S. Army Veteran of OIF 2003
"Gone But Never Forgotten"

"In Flanders fields the poppies blow
between the crosses, row on row...."
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 21 May 2018, 11:03
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7,278
Internal volume 7.62SD = 138.25in^3
Internal volume SST = 84.82in^3

IF I want to get into more math, I'd subtract the volume of the baffle stacks from each to get a better idea of the "free air" volume. There are more baffles in the ST than in the 7.62 SD --- but the SST is drilled for a 5.56 (not .30 Cal). Wasn't sure if that was making a Yuge difference. Also my ear isn't a great decibel meter. IMO, both get the job done but that AAC is going to last a whole lot longer than the SST.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 21 May 2018, 21:24
256's Avatar
256 256 is offline
Navigating
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 452
Gemtech Bolt Carrier

One of the other guys running a Surefire can was using a Gemtech bolt carrier. He let me run a few drills with it in my rifle, there was a very noticeable difference of gas to the face. I think all-in-all I put about 1500 rounds through the rifle during the two-week class.

I learned that my rifle is way over-gassed (thanks gavin for the video and the website, lots of info there). I need to get the bolt-carrier slowed way down. I also learned that there some pluses to using suppressors and some downsides; my lightweight 10.5 SBR ain't so light anymore and that sumbitch gets real hot.

Also, I found a video on youtube that might be useful. The guy used RTV Silicone (used to make gaskets) to fill in the space where some of the gasses escape at the rear of the charging handle. I watched some of the video taken of me while shooting and that's not where it looked like gas was escaping from, but I certainly could be wrong.

Thanks for all the pointers, gents
Attached Images
File Type: jpg gemtech.jpg (40.7 KB, 81 views)
__________________
Kiowas are small, carrying just two people; they fly so low the two flying soldiers are practically infantrymen.

- Excerpt from Gates of Fire, Michael Yon

Last edited by 256; 21 May 2018 at 21:32. Reason: adding information about gas charging handle I forgot to add
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 21 May 2018, 21:31
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is offline
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,891
I have a Gemtech BCG in my BCM DI SBR, but not in my DD DI SBR. In my experience (with those two SBRs), the Gemtech BCG doesn't make a big difference. Both run about the same, suppressed and unsuppressed. Same amount of gas in the face (but, as I wrote before, not so much gas that it bothers me). The Gemtech BCGs are pretty cheap, get one and see what it does for you.

I used a DD Mk18 for years in the Army, suppressed and unsuppressed, never was bothered by gas to the face. I'm a lefty, too...
__________________
Lifeís barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 21 May 2018, 21:40
256's Avatar
256 256 is offline
Navigating
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ohio
Posts: 452
gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
I used a DD Mk18 for years in the Army, suppressed and unsuppressed, never was bothered by gas to the face. I'm a lefty, too...
I was born in 1985, which makes me a millennial (I think), we're a little softer in the feels-zone (this is a technical term other generations don't understand). Which is probably why the gas bothered me so much. haha

thanks again!
__________________
Kiowas are small, carrying just two people; they fly so low the two flying soldiers are practically infantrymen.

- Excerpt from Gates of Fire, Michael Yon
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 21 May 2018, 22:12
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is offline
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,891
Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
I was born in 1985, which makes me a millennial (I think), we're a little softer in the feels-zone (this is a technical term other generations don't understand). Which is probably why the gas bothered me so much. haha

thanks again!
Either that, or (as you noted before) your SBR is seriously over-gassed. Based on the ejection pattern of my two 5.56 DI SBRs, they are both good. Once you address the over-gassing, you can enjoy shooting like a GenXer like me (I was born in '70, I think that makes me a GenXer).
__________________
Lifeís barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:17.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
© SOCNET 1996-2018