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Old 27 October 2017, 16:32
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Angry SFAB, stealing our beret and history

Anyone out there seen this? These new brigades (6 week train up) are going to have a tab, a green beret, and are calling themselves the Legion...

Unbelievable.

http://specialoperations.com/31719/s...pparently-not/
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Old 27 October 2017, 16:59
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Looks like someone thinks (and has convinced many others) that the FID role isn't something SOF should be involved with... that it's within the realm of lower-level beings.

I wonder if they'll settle with only one brigade?

As far as the Legion moniker and the OD beret and the GAY-assed tab/patch are concerned... well...

As far as the stacks of friendly bodies that will likely result from trying to employ this half-baked formation in-lieu of properly-trained SOF, there's going to be hell to pay.

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Old 27 October 2017, 18:11
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How many people involved in these decisions failed SFAS? All of them? (Minus the CSA...)
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Old 27 October 2017, 19:39
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Sounds like the potential for a whole new era of POSERS.

Oh yea, I was SF, or I was a Legionaire.
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Last edited by 1RiserSlip; 27 October 2017 at 19:47.
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Old 27 October 2017, 20:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B 2/75 View Post
Looks like someone thinks (and has convinced many others) that the FID role isn't something SOF should be involved with... that it's within the realm of lower-level beings.

I wonder if they'll settle with only one brigade?

As far as the Legion moniker and the OD beret and the GAY-assed tab/patch are concerned... well...

As far as the stacks of friendly bodies that will likely result from trying to employ this half-baked formation in-lieu of properly-trained SOF, there's going to be hell to pay.

.02 Kopecks
6 are planned.
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Old 27 October 2017, 21:18
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Are they selling them in BX now
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Old 27 October 2017, 22:04
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I'm a bit surprised that the Institute of Heraldry has approved the SSI and green(ish) beret so quickly, these things usually take a while. Didn't see either item on the Institute's "Recently Added Items" list, either.
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Old 27 October 2017, 22:05
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Are they selling them in BX now
probably not, but I'm sure the Benning Clothing Sales has them. Bragg too likely.
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Old 27 October 2017, 22:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B 2/75 View Post
I wonder if they'll settle with only one brigade?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KW Driver View Post
6 are planned.
5 Active Duty and 1 NG
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Old 27 October 2017, 22:51
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What in the blue fucking blazes is this bullshit?
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Old 27 October 2017, 23:03
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Just when you think things canít get much gayer...

Iíll never forget an MP in my class at the 18B committee who said he knew CQB... I guess CIF will be issuing clown shoes with those oh so sweet olive berets?
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Old 27 October 2017, 23:07
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Before long — like everywhere else — the military will only deal with generalities and not allow for anyone to be “special” or “specialize” in anything. Nothing is sacred anymore!
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Old 27 October 2017, 23:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
I'm a bit surprised that the Institute of Heraldry has approved the SSI and green(ish) beret so quickly, these things usually take a while. Didn't see either item on the Institute's "Recently Added Items" list, either.
I would add AIP (Assignment Incentive Pay) to your list of things that generally take a while for approval. Though as I think about it, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. As this is being pushed hard by TRADOC and DA, billed in some messaging that it is the Army's top priority, seeing quick turn around on these items likely shows us where the Army's leadership is focused on.

As typical with the Army, it appears that effort to focus on appearance or exterior qualities versus capabilities and things that will allow Soldiers to be mission ready, win on the battlefield, survive and maintain a blade that is constantly sharp.

I recall when the Army went to the Black Berets thinking it would enhance a Warrior culture throughout the Army. The Army probably thinks it was a success but in my opinion, it fell way short. Discipline, professionalism and an elite culture doesn't come from exterior bling. That shit is forged in realistic training, enforcing standards of readiness, performance, and conduct amongst other things.

I never served in the USMC but always had a level of respect for them as they had a cultural mindset that every Marine was an Infantryman. Certainly, not every non-infantry Marine was at that standard but the expectation was there at least from my perspective. Whereas the Army, well the standards and enforced standards varied and it was not rare to come across Soldiers that felt, mediocrity was good enough. I saw that in my initial stint prior to going SF and as an E-9 where I came into contact with more folks outside of SOF. There's a reason that close to 10% of the AD Army force is non-deployable and from what I was told at the Pre-Command Course, that number is not filled with majority wounded warriors but fat bodies, APFT failures and discipline issues. The culture in the Army is soft at large in my opinion.

So, the Army identifies a mission requirement and dresses it up with some exterior bling to draw folks, provide them some training and push them out the door. I wish I could see the BFA that went into developing the pre-reqs, training program and certification of these units. Wait, is BFA still conducted?

When I had a company, I was talking to some of the young dudes and asked there thoughts on if a guy came to the range with us that day wearing a Kevlar, a M-16A2 in hand, a LBE and a big Mag lite taped to the handguards, what would they have thought? After some laughter and snide remarks that the dude was likely a pogue, I went to describe my first team and experience at SOT and training downrange or with the DEA and FBI. That was pretty much what we had, we didn't look sexy and that being SF was not the exterior stuff but how I could operate with that equipment and my ability as a warrior. Now, I'm all for the sexy stuff that makes them more lethal but my point is all that is shit unless you have 'it' inside. That is my same thoughts with the SFABs, it appears to have some focus on the exterior versus having grounded themselves in developing a base of training and execution.
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Old 28 October 2017, 00:11
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Guess I'm safe in assuming these Legionnaires will also be co-ed.
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Old 28 October 2017, 02:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
I would add AIP (Assignment Incentive Pay) to your list of things that generally take a while for approval. Though as I think about it, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. As this is being pushed hard by TRADOC and DA, billed in some messaging that it is the Army's top priority, seeing quick turn around on these items likely shows us where the Army's leadership is focused on.

As typical with the Army, it appears that effort to focus on appearance or exterior qualities versus capabilities and things that will allow Soldiers to be mission ready, win on the battlefield, survive and maintain a blade that is constantly sharp.

I recall when the Army went to the Black Berets thinking it would enhance a Warrior culture throughout the Army. The Army probably thinks it was a success but in my opinion, it fell way short. Discipline, professionalism and an elite culture doesn't come from exterior bling. That shit is forged in realistic training, enforcing standards of readiness, performance, and conduct amongst other things.

I never served in the USMC but always had a level of respect for them as they had a cultural mindset that every Marine was an Infantryman. Certainly, not every non-infantry Marine was at that standard but the expectation was there at least from my perspective. Whereas the Army, well the standards and enforced standards varied and it was not rare to come across Soldiers that felt, mediocrity was good enough. I saw that in my initial stint prior to going SF and as an E-9 where I came into contact with more folks outside of SOF. There's a reason that close to 10% of the AD Army force is non-deployable and from what I was told at the Pre-Command Course, that number is not filled with majority wounded warriors but fat bodies, APFT failures and discipline issues. The culture in the Army is soft at large in my opinion.

So, the Army identifies a mission requirement and dresses it up with some exterior bling to draw folks, provide them some training and push them out the door. I wish I could see the BFA that went into developing the pre-reqs, training program and certification of these units. Wait, is BFA still conducted?

When I had a company, I was talking to some of the young dudes and asked there thoughts on if a guy came to the range with us that day wearing a Kevlar, a M-16A2 in hand, a LBE and a big Mag lite taped to the handguards, what would they have thought? After some laughter and snide remarks that the dude was likely a pogue, I went to describe my first team and experience at SOT and training downrange or with the DEA and FBI. That was pretty much what we had, we didn't look sexy and that being SF was not the exterior stuff but how I could operate with that equipment and my ability as a warrior. Now, I'm all for the sexy stuff that makes them more lethal but my point is all that is shit unless you have 'it' inside. That is my same thoughts with the SFABs, it appears to have some focus on the exterior versus having grounded themselves in developing a base of training and execution.
Your comment about taped on flashlights brought back memories. In the very early 80s, our SWAT team looked more like a band of insurgents than anything else. Snipers had a couple good deer rifles, there were a couple Ruger AC556s with hose clamped flashlights, shotguns and two old Reising sub guns.....and one original Tommy gun. But we trained and trained hard. Then we started running some serious missions and started gettting noticed....and then queried about our TTPs.

We then went to a multi agency, multi day training event, and larger "professional" teams with matching uniforms, MP5s, et al, sneered at us like we were the hillbillies I'm sure we looked like.
End result, we outshot, out maneuvered, out TTPd everyone, and took home all the accolades.

One VERY large calif team came over afterwards and actually apologized for their beliefs, based upon our looks, that we shouldn't be there. In the end we made good contacts with them and trained and cross pollinated our TTPs.

Cool story yea....but the truth is the same. You can put fancy hats on, cool patches and catchy unit names. It doesn't mean shit. History is full of these same mistakes, and nobody ever learns the lessons.
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Old 28 October 2017, 03:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
Just when you think things canít get much gayer...
The beret looks like more of an Aqua to me, maybe a Teal?

When did you guys start inviting the AF to your uniform design boards?
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Old 28 October 2017, 04:18
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We watched the Army steal the Black Beret, with high expectations of linage, honor, and blah, blah, blah.
You see how that worked out.
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Old 28 October 2017, 06:19
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"So were you a real Green Beret, or just the olive drab green beret version"?
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Old 28 October 2017, 07:43
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I guess it makes too much sense to take an already filled Infantry brigade and put them thru 6 weeks of additional pre deployment training if you have to send them out on a FID mission. I guess that's not special enough. Once again, it's good to be retired.
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Old 28 October 2017, 08:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
I would add AIP (Assignment Incentive Pay) to your list of things that generally take a while for approval. Though as I think about it, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. As this is being pushed hard by TRADOC and DA, billed in some messaging that it is the Army's top priority, seeing quick turn around on these items likely shows us where the Army's leadership is focused on.

As typical with the Army, it appears that effort to focus on appearance or exterior qualities versus capabilities and things that will allow Soldiers to be mission ready, win on the battlefield, survive and maintain a blade that is constantly sharp.

I recall when the Army went to the Black Berets thinking it would enhance a Warrior culture throughout the Army. The Army probably thinks it was a success but in my opinion, it fell way short. Discipline, professionalism and an elite culture doesn't come from exterior bling. That shit is forged in realistic training, enforcing standards of readiness, performance, and conduct amongst other things.

I never served in the USMC but always had a level of respect for them as they had a cultural mindset that every Marine was an Infantryman. Certainly, not every non-infantry Marine was at that standard but the expectation was there at least from my perspective. Whereas the Army, well the standards and enforced standards varied and it was not rare to come across Soldiers that felt, mediocrity was good enough. I saw that in my initial stint prior to going SF and as an E-9 where I came into contact with more folks outside of SOF. There's a reason that close to 10% of the AD Army force is non-deployable and from what I was told at the Pre-Command Course, that number is not filled with majority wounded warriors but fat bodies, APFT failures and discipline issues. The culture in the Army is soft at large in my opinion.

So, the Army identifies a mission requirement and dresses it up with some exterior bling to draw folks, provide them some training and push them out the door. I wish I could see the BFA that went into developing the pre-reqs, training program and certification of these units. Wait, is BFA still conducted?

When I had a company, I was talking to some of the young dudes and asked there thoughts on if a guy came to the range with us that day wearing a Kevlar, a M-16A2 in hand, a LBE and a big Mag lite taped to the handguards, what would they have thought? After some laughter and snide remarks that the dude was likely a pogue, I went to describe my first team and experience at SOT and training downrange or with the DEA and FBI. That was pretty much what we had, we didn't look sexy and that being SF was not the exterior stuff but how I could operate with that equipment and my ability as a warrior. Now, I'm all for the sexy stuff that makes them more lethal but my point is all that is shit unless you have 'it' inside. That is my same thoughts with the SFABs, it appears to have some focus on the exterior versus having grounded themselves in developing a base of training and execution.
Godzilla, that is spot on.

Mediocrity will not change because it has a different badge or gear.

Those who achieve and succeed will do so no matter the environment or uniform.
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