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Old 12 January 2020, 23:19
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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Alternatives to AA that don't involve God

A friend shared this on FB.

AA and similar 12-step programs have helped thousands, if not millions of people. But it requires some belief in and acceptance of a higher power, and it's my understanding that that higher power is almost always thought to be the Christian God.

But not everyone believes in God. Not everyone believes in a higher power.

There are alternatives out there for you.
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  #2  
Old 13 January 2020, 07:30
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Old 13 January 2020, 07:42
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Alcoholics Anonymous is about the Christian God like Freemasonry is about the Christian God. Both of then require you to profess faith in a higher power, but neither are Christian programs. They allow Muslims, Jews, etc.

There is an alternative to AA for those seeking Him in their recovery from addictions and hurt. It's called Celebrate Recovery.

https://www.celebraterecovery.com/
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Old 13 January 2020, 09:12
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Old 13 January 2020, 09:20
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When I was participating in an outpatient program at Greenwich Hospital I heard a lot about this LifeRing program.

It’s described as a “Sober, Secular and Self Directed program”

https://www.liferingct.org/
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Old 13 January 2020, 13:58
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Personally, I go to a "Pagans in Recovery," 12-step. It's theistic, but makes no implied or explicit demand as to what the "higher power" should be. I have a friend here in the Atlanta area who has recently started a non-theistic/atheist 12 step meeting, as well.
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Old 13 January 2020, 13:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
Alcoholics Anonymous is about the Christian God like Freemasonry is about the Christian God. Both of then require you to profess faith in a higher power, but neither are Christian programs. They allow Muslims, Jews, etc.

There is an alternative to AA for those seeking Him in their recovery from addictions and hurt. It's called Celebrate Recovery.

https://www.celebraterecovery.com/

I think CR is a wonderful program, but I have one issue with it: the staggering number of people there I've heard saying things like "Jesus took the taste of alcohol out of my mouth," and then proceeding to NOT work the steps.
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Old 13 January 2020, 14:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmueller View Post
A friend shared this on FB.

AA and similar 12-step programs have helped thousands, if not millions of people. But it requires some belief in and acceptance of a higher power, and it's my understanding that that higher power is almost always thought to be the Christian God.

But not everyone believes in God. Not everyone believes in a higher power.

There are alternatives out there for you.

I can't find it now, but there is a really well-written document breaking down what "higher power," might mean to anyone not theistic. Simply put, some days, my higher power is the group. Some days, it's that part of my own brain that know when "this isn't a good idea." And...some days, it's my objective and external higher powers, as I understand them.


Point being: a higher power doesn't have to be a deity.
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Old 13 January 2020, 16:06
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AA doesn't mandate a belief in any particular deity, it only requires that one subscribe to and acknowledge belief in "a Power greater than oneself", however and whatever one understands that "Power" to be.

It's a spiritual program, not a religious one.
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  #10  
Old 13 January 2020, 16:15
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"Faith" is interpreted so many ways. I know a couple atheists who were successful with AA.
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  #11  
Old 13 January 2020, 19:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
Alcoholics Anonymous is about the Christian God like Freemasonry is about the Christian God. Both of then require you to profess faith in a higher power, but neither are Christian programs. They allow Muslims, Jews, etc.

There is an alternative to AA for those seeking Him in their recovery from addictions and hurt. It's called Celebrate Recovery.

https://www.celebraterecovery.com/
Celebrate Recovery is good as it is open to all kinds of issues, not just Alcohol issues. But it is distinctly Christian. I recommend it.
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Old 13 January 2020, 19:07
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Originally Posted by BOFH View Post
I think CR is a wonderful program, but I have one issue with it: the staggering number of people there I've heard saying things like "Jesus took the taste of alcohol out of my mouth," and then proceeding to NOT work the steps.
Yeah, if only it were that easy...although sometimes it is. Everyone's walk and struggle is different.
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  #13  
Old 13 January 2020, 19:10
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https://cthreefoundation.org/the-sinclair-method

There are also groups of folks doing the Sinclair Method...definitely an option or an addition to other modalities.
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- I'm not typing this looking for sympathy, I want you guys to listen to your body and if you see or feel something out of the ordinary going on, get it looked at by a competent Doctor. -OldCrustyBastard
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Old 14 January 2020, 16:55
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I have an honest question:

Where do people stand when it comes to those who believe in G-d, but not necessarily in Christ?

What I mean is, I think that some folks have a tough time with the New Testament (I am one of them).

Why does every church need to be Christian? What if we left Christ as simply a prophet instead of a "son of G-d" which some people have taken far too literally?

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to start a war, I just wonder how faith has gotten to the point that some people believe in Jesus the way they do but society is so fucked up.

And as so far as it concerns sobriety programs, people can believe whatever they want to get them to the point that they are well if they change one fundamental thing: the people around them. Programs should be more focused on people's lifestyles and habits. Human nature and psychology play a huge role in true recovery. I think that we are long overdue for a more modern way of dealing with people's habits.
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Old 14 January 2020, 17:54
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So as not to derail the conversation, I believe there is another thread for Christianity discussion? I'll be happy to PM on the topic ...along the line that Jesus is either who he claimed to be, or he was a nut or a liar/charlatan.

Church is by definition "Christian" as opposed to Mosque or Synagogue.

AA does NOT require you to believe in Christianity...your "higher power" is up to you.

Celebrate Recovery; however, is Christian faith based version of AA.
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- I'm not typing this looking for sympathy, I want you guys to listen to your body and if you see or feel something out of the ordinary going on, get it looked at by a competent Doctor. -OldCrustyBastard
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  #16  
Old 14 January 2020, 19:37
Steve788 Steve788 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberChick View Post
I have an honest question:

Where do people stand when it comes to those who believe in G-d, but not necessarily in Christ?

What I mean is, I think that some folks have a tough time with the New Testament (I am one of them).

Why does every church need to be Christian? What if we left Christ as simply a prophet instead of a "son of G-d" which some people have taken far too literally?
Sounds like Judaism, no? Do what you want, follow your
belief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberChick View Post


And as so far as it concerns sobriety programs, people can believe whatever they want to get them to the point that they are well if they change one fundamental thing: the people around them. Programs should be more focused on people's lifestyles and habits. Human nature and psychology play a huge role in true recovery. I think that we are long overdue for a more modern way of dealing with people's habits.
What program are you talking about, here?
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  #17  
Old 14 January 2020, 19:38
Steve788 Steve788 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmueller View Post

But not everyone believes in God. Not everyone believes in a higher power..
And not everyone wants to stop using.
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  #18  
Old 15 January 2020, 10:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberChick View Post
Why does every church need to be Christian? What if we left Christ as simply a prophet instead of a "son of G-d" which some people have taken far too literally?

I mean...I'm an out-and-out polytheist, and living in Georgia at that, and nobody really seems to care.
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  #19  
Old 15 January 2020, 11:30
Devildoc Devildoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberChick View Post
I have an honest question:

Where do people stand when it comes to those who believe in G-d, but not necessarily in Christ?

What I mean is, I think that some folks have a tough time with the New Testament (I am one of them).

Why does every church need to be Christian? What if we left Christ as simply a prophet instead of a "son of G-d" which some people have taken far too literally?

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to start a war, I just wonder how faith has gotten to the point that some people believe in Jesus the way they do but society is so fucked up.

And as so far as it concerns sobriety programs, people can believe whatever they want to get them to the point that they are well if they change one fundamental thing: the people around them. Programs should be more focused on people's lifestyles and habits. Human nature and psychology play a huge role in true recovery. I think that we are long overdue for a more modern way of dealing with people's habits.
These are great questions, worthy of more insight in the other thread. Simply, both Judaism and Islam believe that Jesus was a teacher/prophet; Judaism has significant roots in the Old Testament, whereas Islam parted ways early on. But, no war need be started: "You do you."

In light of sobriety programs, many people are successful in any endeavor which asks one to place trust in "something bigger," be that God or your Team.
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Old 15 January 2020, 19:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberChick View Post
Why does every church need to be Christian? What if we left Christ as simply a prophet instead of a "son of G-d" which some people have taken far too literally?
Islam considers Jesus to be a prophet, not the son of God.

There are plenty of non-Christian churches out there, where they have a god that isn't God. But the whole idea behind Christianity is that man is sinful and only through Christ's sacrifice can we be cleansed of our sin. Without Christ there is no Christianity.
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