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  #41  
Old 21 October 2016, 00:08
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Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
Sadly, with as much emphasis as there is today on working out, CrossFit, Spartan, etc., there is an even "greater" emphasis on video games and couch potatoes.

Working out requires self-motivation and drive to better oneself. It takes initiative to get up and get going...that initiative is greatly lacking today.

Until that changes, we will have a lot more weaklings than we do "in-shape" people. That includes LE candidates.
So, here's a couple new stories from last weeks classes I taught......

FTO training new millennial. His supervisor calls the FTO in and asks about trainee. FTO says he's ok, typical trainee, nothing outstanding. Supervisor says trainees MOTHER called him. Says that the FTO needs to give her son "more positive comments so he feels better".

Another FTO said that he was trying to get a feel on his new millennial trainee. Asked him if he played sports..No..
Wrestled...No
Swam..No
Any sports at all.....No

He then asked trainee, have you ever been in a fight in your life?
Trainee says, no, why is that important ?
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  #42  
Old 21 October 2016, 04:10
Mr.Smith Mr.Smith is offline
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LP, I would have to disagree, respectfully, about the degree aspect. I believe its been brought up before about having some squeaky clean, goody good, who gets the job because of a degree. Then come to find out dude cant throw a punch to save his life. I do believe a degree helps get your foot in the door and definitely makes you more competitive. I just dont think it should be a requirement to have one to even be considered.
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  #43  
Old 21 October 2016, 04:27
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Originally Posted by Mr.Smith View Post
LP, I would have to disagree, respectfully, about the degree aspect. I believe its been brought up before about having some squeaky clean, goody good, who gets the job because of a degree. Then come to find out dude cant throw a punch to save his life. I do believe a degree helps get your foot in the door and definitely makes you more competitive. I just dont think it should be a requirement to have one to even be considered.
I don't think it should be a requirement either, and personally think having a veteran's status out weighs having a bachelor's degree. But, the reality is many departments have that as a minimum requirement, or a candidate will not be competitive enough to get hired without one. At least that is the way it is with our local Depts. here. Even all the veterans getting hired in my area, all have bachelor's degrees.
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  #44  
Old 21 October 2016, 04:28
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Originally Posted by CA SGT View Post
So, here's a couple new stories from last weeks classes I taught......

FTO training new millennial. His supervisor calls the FTO in and asks about trainee. FTO says he's ok, typical trainee, nothing outstanding. Supervisor says trainees MOTHER called him. Says that the FTO needs to give her son "more positive comments so he feels better".

Another FTO said that he was trying to get a feel on his new millennial trainee. Asked him if he played sports..No..
Wrestled...No
Swam..No
Any sports at all.....No

He then asked trainee, have you ever been in a fight in your life?
Trainee says, no, why is that important ?
You have got to be freaking kidding me.
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  #45  
Old 21 October 2016, 07:23
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Reminds me of a HS Senior I talked to a couple of years ago, a friend's son. Asked him what he was going to do after HS. "Join the Navy and become a Navy SEAL". Ok. So I asked him, "you doing any sports, working out?". Nope. Never has done any sports, not swimming, etc. Sigh. Told him if he is serious about that he should go out for the swim team, join cross country or wrestling, join a martial arts/boxing club, go talk to a SEAL recruiter, start working out. He just shrugged his shoulders.

Last I heard, he is still living at home and washing cars at a car dealership for minimum wage for the last couple of years.

Talked to another young man last week. 24 years old, still living with parents. Has been doing just odd end manual labor jobs, on and off since HS. Told him, "Go join the Indiana National Guard, then you can go to University for free and get your Bachelor's degree." His reply, "Well, I don't want to join unless I can be guaranteed a slot of Special Forces, and I probably cannot make it in SF, so I don't want to be just some support guy or regular NG guy".
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  #46  
Old 21 October 2016, 07:32
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Yep...so many people want to be special, but are extraordinary only in how their expectations and desires disconnect with their effort and commitment.
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  #47  
Old 21 October 2016, 08:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA SGT View Post
So, here's a couple new stories from last weeks classes I taught......

FTO training new millennial. His supervisor calls the FTO in and asks about trainee. FTO says he's ok, typical trainee, nothing outstanding. Supervisor says trainees MOTHER called him. Says that the FTO needs to give her son "more positive comments so he feels better".

Another FTO said that he was trying to get a feel on his new millennial trainee. Asked him if he played sports..No..
Wrestled...No
Swam..No
Any sports at all.....No

He then asked trainee, have you ever been in a fight in your life?
Trainee says, no, why is that important ?
OMG, I wish I could laugh at this and believe it were only a joke. LOL. This is what I am talking about precisely... this was the same kind of guy that I had to interview not long ago. I had a buddy of mine training over at a near by agency. They hired a girl who was supposedly "top notch" and one who was expected to be a great officer.... the first breaking and entering in progress she went to...when she arrived she ran up on the suspect and began shouting. The man reached in his pockets and the training officer drew upon the suspect ordering him to the ground. At no time, did the trainee react or do anything besides essentially stand there with her hands in a forward resting/relaxed positon. The trainer asks her "why didn't you draw your weapon? He was coming straight at you and pulling something out of his pants...." (later to be confirmed a weapon) her response.... "they told us in the academy we don't draw our weapons until we are ready to kill..."........ she went to the same academy as me, under the care of my good friend. I had to call him and ask, which I already knew the answer. Was this what she was taught? D says...."F TO THE HELL NO!"..... welcome to the new policing.

Another report of a new candidate that just came out.... fight in progress that went south. Officers outnumbered.... the trainee essentially ran back to the patrol car, and got inside, and locked the door and called for help. ..... This is the future of policing..... Joy.
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  #48  
Old 21 October 2016, 12:41
Crucible guy Crucible guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Sado_1 View Post
OMG, I wish I could laugh at this and believe it were only a joke. LOL. This is what I am talking about precisely... this was the same kind of guy that I had to interview not long ago. I had a buddy of mine training over at a near by agency. They hired a girl who was supposedly "top notch" and one who was expected to be a great officer.... the first breaking and entering in progress she went to...when she arrived she ran up on the suspect and began shouting. The man reached in his pockets and the training officer drew upon the suspect ordering him to the ground. At no time, did the trainee react or do anything besides essentially stand there with her hands in a forward resting/relaxed positon. The trainer asks her "why didn't you draw your weapon? He was coming straight at you and pulling something out of his pants...." (later to be confirmed a weapon) her response.... "they told us in the academy we don't draw our weapons until we are ready to kill..."........ she went to the same academy as me, under the care of my good friend. I had to call him and ask, which I already knew the answer. Was this what she was taught? D says...."F TO THE HELL NO!"..... welcome to the new policing.

Another report of a new candidate that just came out.... fight in progress that went south. Officers outnumbered.... the trainee essentially ran back to the patrol car, and got inside, and locked the door and called for help. ..... This is the future of policing..... Joy.
In the late 80's I had to go to a campground as back up when a sworn park ranger was scared of a drunk camper (pipefitter.) He did the exact same thing but even worse, he left the area altogether and we had to go first find and then deal with said drunk and arrest him for assaulting a peace officer.

On the contrary through, a friend was training a new female trainee and they were in a pursuit of some autotheft suspects. The suspect vehicle gets caught up on the train tracks and the occupant abandons and starts to flee. As the FTO comes screeching to a stop and is just about to yell to the trainee to stay with the car, he looks- and the female trainee has already bailed and is chasing the suspects. Apparently FTO did not know she was not only a weightlifter at the time, but also ran marathons in the sand. She caught him down the tracks and brought him back in cuffs. It has been a while and that "newbie" is about to retire herself now.
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  #49  
Old 21 October 2016, 13:00
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^^^ One of the best Troopers I knew was a female. I don't know how she did it, but it was never an enforcement contact with a turd with her. She always managed to turn it into something more like a mother disciplining a child. It was amazing to watch her work sometimes. Wish I could have done that, but I didn't have 38 DD tits...
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  #50  
Old 21 October 2016, 15:17
labman2 labman2 is offline
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Guess I have a bit different opinion than most. I recently had lunch with my FTO, who transitioned into my partner for 5 years. We worked together in the late '80's, early '90's.

He asked me about the most recent hiring announcement that my agency had and said his grandson was interested. I went on a tirade about LE being f**ked up and the millennial generation being useless. He laughed and asked me if I remembered what he told me about my generation the first time we met. Yep, he said we were useless.

He asked if I remembered meeting his FTO in the mid '90's and we both laughed and remembered that old man saying the same thing about my partner's bunch back in the '60's

Bottom line, every generation has it's share, maybe this one more than some. But excellent training and a group dynamic that demands accountability has changed a whole lot of folks into decent or even outstanding LE. Some of those may initially have had a hard time finding their way back to the academy day after day.

The challenge in one of the OP's posts is the admission that there is a lack of quality "old guys" to set the standards. Who's fault is that? That's squarely on the peer group.

Sharky's post about a organization that has high standards attracting new recruits who have high standards and are looking for the same is 110% correct. I can look around the DFW area and see incredibly competent, squared away departments and only have to cross an imaginary boundary into the next municipality to see a department full of ass clowns.

One department has plenty of applicants, the other not so much.

Maybe, LE needs to take a look at how well we really perform our jobs, because after 29 years of this, I don't think we police our own incompetence worth a damn. That makes my job harder, and causes a lot of qualified folks who would make potentially outstanding officers look elsewhere.


Despite my "get off my yard" old man attitude, once I take a step back and recognize what the current crop of recruits offers, there are plenty of potentially outstanding men and women who given the right training, environment and expectation will be a credit to LE in the years to come.
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  #51  
Old 21 October 2016, 15:50
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Originally Posted by labman2 View Post
Guess I have a bit different opinion than most. I recently had lunch with my FTO, who transitioned into my partner for 5 years. We worked together in the late '80's, early '90's.

He asked me about the most recent hiring announcement that my agency had and said his grandson was interested. I went on a tirade about LE being f**ked up and the millennial generation being useless. He laughed and asked me if I remembered what he told me about my generation the first time we met. Yep, he said we were useless.

He asked if I remembered meeting his FTO in the mid '90's and we both laughed and remembered that old man saying the same thing about my partner's bunch back in the '60's

Bottom line, every generation has it's share, maybe this one more than some. But excellent training and a group dynamic that demands accountability has changed a whole lot of folks into decent or even outstanding LE. Some of those may initially have had a hard time finding their way back to the academy day after day.

The challenge in one of the OP's posts is the admission that there is a lack of quality "old guys" to set the standards. Who's fault is that? That's squarely on the peer group.

Sharky's post about a organization that has high standards attracting new recruits who have high standards and are looking for the same is 110% correct. I can look around the DFW area and see incredibly competent, squared away departments and only have to cross an imaginary boundary into the next municipality to see a department full of ass clowns.

One department has plenty of applicants, the other not so much.

Maybe, LE needs to take a look at how well we really perform our jobs, because after 29 years of this, I don't think we police our own incompetence worth a damn. That makes my job harder, and causes a lot of qualified folks who would make potentially outstanding officers look elsewhere.


Despite my "get off my yard" old man attitude, once I take a step back and recognize what the current crop of recruits offers, there are plenty of potentially outstanding men and women who given the right training, environment and expectation will be a credit to LE in the years to come.
I agree with all of this 100%. I work with older guys who have always been useless and kids in their 20s who are absolute studs.

As far as female officers, I work with good ones and bad ones. Physical attributes aside, I don't think the percentage of good or bad ones is any different than the men.
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  #52  
Old 21 October 2016, 16:00
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Originally Posted by Crucible guy View Post
In the late 80's I had to go to a campground as back up when a sworn park ranger was scared of a drunk camper (pipefitter.) He did the exact same thing but even worse, he left the area altogether and we had to go first find and then deal with said drunk and arrest him for assaulting a peace officer.

On the contrary through, a friend was training a new female trainee and they were in a pursuit of some autotheft suspects. The suspect vehicle gets caught up on the train tracks and the occupant abandons and starts to flee. As the FTO comes screeching to a stop and is just about to yell to the trainee to stay with the car, he looks- and the female trainee has already bailed and is chasing the suspects. Apparently FTO did not know she was not only a weightlifter at the time, but also ran marathons in the sand. She caught him down the tracks and brought him back in cuffs. It has been a while and that "newbie" is about to retire herself now.
That is awesome. Your being left behind scenario happened to myself and my partner once. My backup arrived..... we all went into the house together. Things went south...before I knew it my partner was fighting with one in the kitchen, I'm fighting with on in the hallway.... we get it under control and look behind...no 3 has left the area....tires peeling and screeching..... I bet the man on the train tracks will never forget her name though. That is awesome. lol
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  #53  
Old 21 October 2016, 16:10
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Originally Posted by Chris-Harper View Post
^^^ One of the best Troopers I knew was a female. I don't know how she did it, but it was never an enforcement contact with a turd with her. She always managed to turn it into something more like a mother disciplining a child. It was amazing to watch her work sometimes. Wish I could have done that, but I didn't have 38 DD tits...
I have had the same experience. I have arrived when things were either becoming a physical incident between an officer and a person, and where they had already become one....something about a woman when she arrives....most have never given me a problem. I've never really thought of it in these terms until you said it. I've had to fight with the best of them too...but mostly what I found after the piss and vinegar was drawn from me, was that the quieter I spoke to a man, the less he could shout because he was curious to see what it was I was saying to him.

I remember arriving to a call for an irate man wanting to "evict" his tenant because he basically torched the place. On the way there, reports of his smashing and breaking things, screaming and cursing on an open line to dispatch. I arrived, and got out of my car. What I saw was a man about 280 lbs, and about 6"6 no shit. I am about 5"10 so by no means small. But I do remember thinking as I got out of my car...."that's a huge M'f'er". He was absolutely flipping out and began walking towards me. Screaming and shouting, demanding I do this, or do that...calling me curse words, all sorts of crap.... I lit a cigarette and just listened to him. I stared at him intently while smoking my cigarette and then when he finally broke from his spit flying wrath.... I very calmly and softly asked him "Sir have I disrespected you?".....he stopped in the middle of his red faced flipping out and said "huh!???". I said "yeah... I have I disrespected you? Cursed you? Yelled at you? "...he looked at me dumbfounded. I then said "so why are you disrespecting me? YOU called ME here to help YOU.. so here I am. Now how can I help you, or do you think I will help you with you telling me what a bitch I am ?". He apologized and turned into a giant teddy bear and then asked me out on a date....... yes, so romantic. Later found out through my guys that he has fought every single officer that has ever come out there. Maybe women just have a way with men who are "upset". LOL
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  #54  
Old 21 October 2016, 17:19
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My ex went thru the police academy about 1975, when women were just beginning to enter the police service. She would Kel light you if you looked at her wrong. She retired as a Captain.
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  #55  
Old 21 October 2016, 18:47
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"Well, I don't want to join unless I can be guaranteed a slot of Special Forces, and I probably cannot make it in SF, so I don't want to be just some support guy or regular NG guy".
So instead I'll just be a marginal member of society at large.
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  #56  
Old 21 October 2016, 20:01
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My ex went thru the police academy about 1975, when women were just beginning to enter the police service. She would Kel light you if you looked at her wrong. She retired as a Captain.
That's awesome. I wish I had the opportunity to meet more women like that. I love hearing their experiences.
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  #57  
Old 21 October 2016, 20:11
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Originally Posted by CA SGT View Post
FTO training new millennial. His supervisor calls the FTO in and asks about trainee. FTO says he's ok, typical trainee, nothing outstanding. Supervisor says trainees MOTHER called him. Says that the FTO needs to give her son "more positive comments so he feels better".
Not sure this is a new phenomena. Time=1982 - DoD intel training course conducted with another government agency. One weekend our instructor staff politely tell us "if you don't have anything specific to do on site this weekend, leave". Why? OGA is having "parents weekend". WTF? "Oh, we invite their parents so they can get an idea of what Johnny's doing".

Corollary story - asked one of our instructors (OGA) one night over drinks why he was teaching in the military course. I'm paraphrasing but it was something like "Because we get to screw with you. If you guys quit, you screw up your career. If we messed with our students like we mess with you, they would start crying and quit the course."
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  #58  
Old 22 October 2016, 04:43
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Gray Rhyno Gray Rhyno is offline
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Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
I agree with all of this 100%. I work with older guys who have always been useless and kids in their 20s who are absolute studs.

As far as female officers, I work with good ones and bad ones. Physical attributes aside, I don't think the percentage of good or bad ones is any different than the men.
Excellent post. Age, sex, size, etc., mean nothing on their own. Lack of "quit" goes a long way.
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  #59  
Old 22 October 2016, 10:24
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Currently in the academy for Texas Highway Patrol. While we do have a few in our class that don't necessarily deserve to be there/ belong there- we have plenty of studs, both college and MIL types- Majority of the trainees have both. Of those that have 0 military experience only a couple lack degrees- but are Prior LE.

Additionally we have folks with less than squeaky clean backgrounds, and the Dept isn't opposed to hiring those who have fought before.

Out of the 140 or so still in the class 6 weeks in (started with 160 i think, and the class continues until late Feb.) I'd say 50-55% are veterans. There is no age limit for applications with TX DPS, so we have multiple retired MIL guys in my class. Many SOF units represented and even have a guy who turned down his job opportunity with Goldman Sachs to join.

That being said, we still have some fat to trim and hopefully the instructors start ramping things up to achieve that.

Our pay scale is very good, which is clearly evident in the caliber of recruits. Clearly, I am biased- but have been impressed with the program thus far, especially the academic and PT program. (our entry test is a 2,000m row based off body weight for vo2 max)

Just figured I would throw my two Pesos in as a younger (28) guy who is on the other end of the process.
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  #60  
Old 22 October 2016, 10:24
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Originally Posted by CA SGT View Post

Another FTO said that he was trying to get a feel on his new millennial trainee. Asked him if he played sports..No..
Wrestled...No
Swam..No
Any sports at all.....No

He then asked trainee, have you ever been in a fight in your life?
Trainee says, no, why is that important ?

^^^^^That's the future SWAT commander right there. ^^^^
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