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Old 25 October 2014, 17:10
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LSAT

All,


I recently signed up for the LSAT with an eye towards applying to law schools in the near future. It's not the only path I'm pursuing, but I'm going to give it my all and see how I do. Anyone here taken it in recent years? I'm specifically looking for preparation tips, books, time to devote, etc. There are billions of results on Google, none of which I trust as much as SOCNET. Thanks in advance for your time.
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Old 27 October 2014, 09:35
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It all depends on where you want to attend law school. Most top tier schools won't look at anything below the 160s with a GPA over 3.5. If you're not interested in attending Yale or Standford and are intending on going to a regional ABA accredited school than you probably need something in the 140s or better with a GPA above 3.0. Join LSAC.ORG. That is the single best resource for getting info on the LSAT and law school. This type of analysis should drive your prep for the LSAT. There are multiple decent LSAT prep vendors out there and Google will find them for you. Also jump on a few of the law school forums and that should help out as well. Finally if you're pursuing other options than I suggest you forget about law school because you will not make it. Law school is not undergraduate, you cannot be partially committed or you will spend a lot of money and fail.
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Old 27 October 2014, 11:07
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I know few lawyers that enjoy their jobs.
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Old 27 October 2014, 11:11
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My cousin is currently in her senior year at Columbia Law School and she says that most of her class is having a hard time finding a job.
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Old 27 October 2014, 12:16
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My cousin is currently in her senior year at Columbia Law School and she says that most of her class is having a hard time finding a job.
The large firms are not hiring like they used to but the smaller firms are. Also the big firms are hiring at lower salaries and a 6 figure new associate salary is almost non-existent. However, outside of traditional law firm jobs there are plenty of opportunities if you have specialized skill sets or willing to go in-house counsel, especially in healthcare or insurance. More regulations mean more need for lawyers. In-house counsel is a decent gig since you aren't doing billable hours, thus better quality of life, and you're involved in just about every type of law: contracts, labor, construction, healthcare, tort...etc.
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Old 27 October 2014, 12:46
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I too know few lawyers that really enjoy their job.

unless you are the type that loves bureaucrats.

Local, is a lawyer.
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  #7  
Old 27 October 2014, 13:25
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My bro got his JD. Then an MBA. He enjoyed the profession better.
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Old 27 October 2014, 14:52
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It's been a while, but I recall taking some sort of formal class. At the facility, you could take all the past tests, as practice. I just kept practicing. Those damn logic games. Horse A, B, C, and so on race each other. A finishes ahead of D, but D loses to B. C finishes 2nd, who wins? I'm still not sure what that tests, other than test-taking itself.

In hindsight it was nothing compared to the bar exam. More like the SAT. There is a right way and a wrong way though, and you need to get that instruction somehow.
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Old 27 October 2014, 15:09
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Back in 93 I signed up for Kaplan LSAT prep, which sounds like what FFAC also took. I paid a flat fee of $700 at the time, and I could go every day if I wanted to and take previous tests. Depending on your answers, they had tapes that would review how you logically think and correct it. I drilled the hell out of myself, as my friend who talked me into law after he left the police department, didn't do so well on his first try and had to retake, and then they average out the two scores and he ended up have to drive two states away to get into a law school that would accept him. I knew when it came to the LSAT swing for the fences, as my undergraduate GPA was not stellar. I went every time I could and everyone else was an Indian (dot) studying for the MCAT. I got my results but they change up the grading scale from time to time and I didn't know what the numeric score really meant. No attorneys to ask in the immediate family and I was not yet on SOCnet so I just applied to the one law school. BTW most law schools charge you to apply, so if you are gonna use the shotgun approach, bring the green. My uncle however, is a doctor, and both his sons are doctors, so he hangs with the smart set, lots of cocktail parties with doctors and lawyers. He was over one day and asked me how I did on the LSAT. I told him my score. My ever supportive father (joke in our family was I enlisted for an easier life) started talking about how I was too dumb get into any law school when my uncle put up his hand and told my dad to shut up. This was very uncharacteristic of my uncle, but he knew my dad back in the day so . . . he asked what percentile was I. That is where you scored on the test compared to everyone else who took the LSAT on that day in the US and its territories. I said 93rd percentile. Uncle said quit you job and go to Michigan,, and he wasn't just suggesting it. I lacked confidence and did not, but when the answer to my sole application came back starting with Congratulations . . . well, I have been riding the tiger ever since. Good luck and we will see you around campus.
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Old 27 October 2014, 16:12
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Good info as always everyone, it's appreciated. I took a practice test completely cold, having never looked at an LSAT, and scored the exact national average for test takers.So at least I'm not totally useless. The classes are (as mentioned above) expensive as hell, so it's time to get busy with some books. Thanks again.
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  #11  
Old 27 October 2014, 16:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remington Raider View Post
Back in 93 I signed up for Kaplan LSAT prep, which sounds like what FFAC also took. I paid a flat fee of $700 at the time, and I could go every day if I wanted to and take previous tests. Depending on your answers, they had tapes that would review how you logically think and correct it. I drilled the hell out of myself, as my friend who talked me into law after he left the police department, didn't do so well on his first try and had to retake, and then they average out the two scores and he ended up have to drive two states away to get into a law school that would accept him. I knew when it came to the LSAT swing for the fences, as my undergraduate GPA was not stellar. I went every time I could and everyone else was an Indian (dot) studying for the MCAT. I got my results but they change up the grading scale from time to time and I didn't know what the numeric score really meant. No attorneys to ask in the immediate family and I was not yet on SOCnet so I just applied to the one law school. BTW most law schools charge you to apply, so if you are gonna use the shotgun approach, bring the green. My uncle however, is a doctor, and both his sons are doctors, so he hangs with the smart set, lots of cocktail parties with doctors and lawyers. He was over one day and asked me how I did on the LSAT. I told him my score. My ever supportive father (joke in our family was I enlisted for an easier life) started talking about how I was too dumb get into any law school when my uncle put up his hand and told my dad to shut up. This was very uncharacteristic of my uncle, but he knew my dad back in the day so . . . he asked what percentile was I. That is where you scored on the test compared to everyone else who took the LSAT on that day in the US and its territories. I said 93rd percentile. Uncle said quit you job and go to Michigan,, and he wasn't just suggesting it. I lacked confidence and did not, but when the answer to my sole application came back starting with Congratulations . . . well, I have been riding the tiger ever since. Good luck and we will see you around campus.
That's was a good story. It would have been a great story if you would have broken it up into paragraphs
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  #12  
Old 27 October 2014, 21:09
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OUCH!

Corpsman UP!
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Wolves and alligators should be cross-bred to make wolfagators that will be silent and fast, and we'll never have to hear from those people, they will just be wolfagator shit.
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Old 27 October 2014, 21:22
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Take a prep class. LSAT is logic tricks that can be learned.

When someone asks me whether they should go to law school, I say "No, go be an oral surgeon." Every oral surgeon I know makes tons of money and is happy with their work.

Lawyers, as a whole, are miserable creatures who like to fight at someone else's expense while solving few problems. It drives me nuts.

You have good days and bad days, and there's not a lot of glamour in the majority of the work. It can be thankless work. And people say mean things about your profession. See if you can spend time at a law firm before you jump in with both feet.
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Old 27 October 2014, 22:27
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That's was a good story. It would have been a great story if you would have broken it up into paragraphs
That's what they hire Paralegals to do
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Old 27 October 2014, 22:53
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Good information. I'm taking the LSAT Dec 06. From my own personal research, I picked up this prep book.

http://www.amazon.com/The-LSAT-Train...e+lsat+trainer

So far I feel like it's preparing me decently. If I had the coin I'd take a prep class, but if you're proficient with self-study this book seems to be pretty solid.
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Old 28 October 2014, 10:20
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Take a prep class. LSAT is logic tricks that can be learned.

When someone asks me whether they should go to law school, I say "No, go be an oral surgeon." Every oral surgeon I know makes tons of money and is happy with their work.

Lawyers, as a whole, are miserable creatures who like to fight at someone else's expense while solving few problems. It drives me nuts.

You have good days and bad days, and there's not a lot of glamour in the majority of the work. It can be thankless work. And people say mean things about your profession. See if you can spend time at a law firm before you jump in with both feet.
I don't know if I've ever met a lawyer who loved his job - except maybe my uncle who is in his 80's and refuses to retire. He does land use type stuff at a medium sized firm. As with anything, the trick is to be your own boss or work for the government. Anything else is going to require that you work like a slave and kiss ass for less pay than you would have thought. If I could go back I would be an oral surgeon as well. Skip from room to room charging 1500 bucks a pop for each patient, juggling about 10 at a time.
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Old 28 October 2014, 18:59
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Continued (and appreciated) great advice. Cord-I'm taking the Dec 6 test too. Prep class is also out of my price range, so I'll give that book a try.

The general consensus seems to be "go into oral surgery", but sadly this reformed grunt doesn't do the ol' math and science thing so well.

I know practicing the law isn't the golden ticket it used to be, and can likely be a miserable job. But my thought process is this:

A. Most jobs are miserable, thankless jobs with no glamour. But they don't have the earning potential that comes with a JD. Emphasis on the potential, as I know it's far from a guarantee.

B. After sitting for a FLEO hiring board recently. I took a look at others I knew who had passed and failed. In the failure category were myself, a former USMC Infantry Company commander with Arabic and his Master's (and current employee of said FLEO), and two other friends of similar backgrounds.Of the five to sit the board I knew, the only one to be selected was a fairly useless kid who temp'd at my company. Little in the way of life experience, but he had a JD. Correlation obviously doesn't equal causation, but for the aforementioned government work I don't see a JD as being anything but helpful.

C. Barring FLEO work, a JD already falls into my wheelhouse in the corporate investigations space. I like my job now, but it's fairly limited in terms of advancement and compensation. Hence the desire for the JD.

Just my thought process,which is certainly open to being shot to pieces. But short of my entry into the glamorous world of oral surgery (), I see it as a logical next step.
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Old 29 October 2014, 10:23
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Someone once told me to choose carefully, because once you get your J.D., chances are you are going to be practicing law, even if initially you think of it as just a resume enhancer for other careers. And once you start, it's difficult, if not impossible, to stop.

Like any other business, if you are an entrepreneur, and if you have skills, you can make multiple six figures or more. It's difficult to do that in any other business/profession without a huge amount of start-up capital. In law you are selling your time. How valuable, and fruitful, that time is is entirely up to you.

Don't be under any illusions about going to work for some big law firm though. Even if you get into a great law school, and are at the top of your class so as to get one of these jobs, you will be expected to bill for 2,000 hours a year, or so. That will have you working nights and weekends, and being an all-around bi*ch for somebody (or multiple people). And the trend seems to be to deny equity partnership to new partners. So in the end you won't be making as much as you would have thought. I was shocked to find out that some of my colleagues in big firms were only making in the low six figures, even as partners. And they are still held accountable to a large amount of billable hours.
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Old 8 February 2015, 10:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrax View Post
Continued (and appreciated) great advice. Cord-I'm taking the Dec 6 test too. Prep class is also out of my price range, so I'll give that book a try.

The general consensus seems to be "go into oral surgery", but sadly this reformed grunt doesn't do the ol' math and science thing so well.

I know practicing the law isn't the golden ticket it used to be, and can likely be a miserable job. But my thought process is this:

A. Most jobs are miserable, thankless jobs with no glamour. But they don't have the earning potential that comes with a JD. Emphasis on the potential, as I know it's far from a guarantee.

B. After sitting for a FLEO hiring board recently. I took a look at others I knew who had passed and failed. In the failure category were myself, a former USMC Infantry Company commander with Arabic and his Master's (and current employee of said FLEO), and two other friends of similar backgrounds.Of the five to sit the board I knew, the only one to be selected was a fairly useless kid who temp'd at my company. Little in the way of life experience, but he had a JD. Correlation obviously doesn't equal causation, but for the aforementioned government work I don't see a JD as being anything but helpful.

C. Barring FLEO work, a JD already falls into my wheelhouse in the corporate investigations space. I like my job now, but it's fairly limited in terms of advancement and compensation. Hence the desire for the JD.

Just my thought process,which is certainly open to being shot to pieces. But short of my entry into the glamorous world of oral surgery (), I see it as a logical next step.
I know I am reviving a dead thread but....

First i hope you did well on your LSAT.

When I took it my head physically hurt - if bob wears a red hat and is a tribble and jamie wears a blue hat and is a wibble and all wibbles wear green shoes and 50 out of 60 tribbles who wear green shoes also wear .... arrrrghhhhh

anyways i went to law school at Campbell University in NC (Norman Adrian Wiggens School of Law)

I got my JD and in my case it was a HUGE waist of time and money. I make more based on my military experience than I would ever earn from practicing law.

If you take an SF soldier and add up all of his Butt in Chair times and Time in Schools throughout his career - his training time far exceeds that of lawyers, doctors and probably US presidents :-)

Everyone thinks that a law degree is going to put you into the big bucks right away - NOT

MOST lawyers dont crack 100k and those that do are clustered around specific types of geographic areas (DC N.VA, NYC, LA etc).

You can go the personal injury route and hope you stumble into a golden goose client OR you can buy lottery tickets - same chances

I have NEVER used my degree and im on the backside of 50 and probably never will.

If your a special operations guy and you have contacts or hooks within the community I would focus on that first and foremost.

Besides if you get a FLEO job that will prevent you from ever getting into the Hells Angels or other respectable organization
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  #20  
Old 8 February 2015, 19:28
8654maine 8654maine is offline
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I know I am reviving a dead thread but....

If you take an SF soldier and add up all of his Butt in Chair times and Time in Schools throughout his career - his training time far exceeds that of lawyers, doctors and probably US presidents :-)

....

If your a special operations guy and you have contacts or hooks within the community I would focus on that first and foremost.

:

Not bad advice for the most part.

Use your employment to it's full advantage, especially SOF.

My bro did a JD/MBA and is doing well.

As for the comment of training time exceeding lawyers or doctors, you just go with your bad self,
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