SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > U.S. Army Special Operations > Psyop/Civil Affairs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11 July 2005, 23:25
lal lal is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Metro DC area
Posts: 67
PSYOP enlistment questions

I have been considering enlisting as an active duty 37F. I am female.

What I want to know:
1.) Do women do this? I am told that they do serve as 37F active duty soldiers. But does what women do differ from what men do in this unit? And I want to know the status quo, of how women are viewed and the opportunities for duty women may have or may not have. (I know we all have opinions on where women SHOULD or should not serve. I just need to get a sense of the way it is now.)
2.) Is language school individual or as a unit? Would I go to DLI, or are there separate programs? I have seen mentioned language training at Fort Bragg? How is that different than what is offered at DLI?
3.) And then, I have heard it said many times that 37Fs are "weird" and "keep to themselves." Why this reputation?
4.) What do PSYOP recruits look like in terms of education/background?
5.) I have found much information on the internet about the GENERAL role of PSYOP, but would like to know more about what an active duty soldier DOES day-to-day. Any suggestions for reliable info/further reading?

Any info is so much appreciated...

Last edited by magician; 8 March 2006 at 16:35.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12 July 2005, 10:39
PSYOP ROB's Avatar
PSYOP ROB PSYOP ROB is offline
Amateur Barbarian
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Seminole, FL
Posts: 315
1. Women do this, you answered your own question. Women can work a variety of jobs but the same restrictions that apply to other units as far as their roles in direct combat apply. Women have served as CSMs and Battalion Commanders in PSYOP, so advancement potential is wide open. As far as how they are viewed, I cant speak for 1500 individuals, just me. Anybody that carries their share of the work load and doesnt quit is okay in my book. Were too busy to take on anyone who cant hang.
2. You go to language after AIT, at SWC unless you have something special worked out. The course is different than that offered at DLI in many ways, DLI trains linguists, SWC trains people to function in another language.
3. Where are you getting your info, from someone who has a working knowledge of PSYOP or just some clown that knows somebody who heard something?
4. Dont know how you stack up, your profile is blank.
5. Training; Army Common stuff, SOF specific stuff, job related skills like language lab, product development, Airborne Operations, its a pretty broad question.
__________________
The primary purpose of a staff is to replicate the enemy during peacetime.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12 July 2005, 15:46
lal lal is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Metro DC area
Posts: 67
All helpful. A few follow-ups?

1.) Ok
2.) Why would one work something special out re: language? Is that desirable? And will SWC language training be adequate for post-army work? (Would I be able to take and pass proficiency tests for other agencies?) Then what languages are being taught at SWC? And would I have a choice?
3.) Several recruiters (Navy, though, not army); several "active duty" officers on armyocs.com. All said positives: "crazy smart;" but also "weird." I ask because I am interested if PSYOP soldiers are different (education, personality, future goals) from most enlisting in other MOSs.
4.)EDITED BY MODERATOR.
5.) What about the research that informs product development? Who does that? Are you JUST developing products? Mostly, are the products print media? Who does that? Who participates in deciding what behavioral/attitude change is necessary? Who determines the overall strategy that product development serves? Where can I read more about this part of it? And I don't understand how product development fits with Airborne Operations?

Thank you SO much.

Last edited by magician; 8 March 2006 at 16:37.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12 July 2005, 17:19
PSYOP ROB's Avatar
PSYOP ROB PSYOP ROB is offline
Amateur Barbarian
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Seminole, FL
Posts: 315
2. If your recruiter can some how pull magic strings and get you a DLI slot, you will go there. Post Army work, dont know, how well will you speak the language they teach you when you get out? Your DLAB scores and the needs of the unit tell you which language you will take.
3. Most recruiters and most "active duty officers" know nothing about PSYOP. If your recruiter isnt Army, he knows nothing about it, and only the bare minimum even then.
4. At 28 you are not too old. Whether your education will be a waste or not is up to you. It appears that you are looking to try and use your knowledge, we can use french speakers, we can use asian studies experts, and even religious studies has its applications.
5. PSYOP soldiers need to be culturally aware and informed about their areas of responsibility. I wont go into research or sources on the internet. There are good examples of PSYOP products on psywarrior.com and on the USCENTCOM home page. If it can be heard or read or seen, we can use it.
Airborne operations was an example of training and the day to day life you asked about.
__________________
The primary purpose of a staff is to replicate the enemy during peacetime.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12 July 2005, 21:17
Metalchica's Avatar
Metalchica Metalchica is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 1,070
Have you considered the option of enlisting in PSYOP's sister MOS, 38A - Civil Affairs Specialist?

Your background would be an asset to a CA unit. Civil affairs soldiers, female-type have the same missions and opportunities as their male counterparts.

What other languages do you speak, besides French?
__________________
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - President Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12 July 2005, 21:50
lal lal is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Metro DC area
Posts: 67
Thank you so much for your comments--this is really so helpful.

EDITED BY MODERATOR.

I don't have my heart set on any one MOS--I am genuinely trying to figure out if there is a "fit" in the military for what I enjoy doing, and am good at.

Much of the research I have done has been aimed at developing behavioral modification interventions for a specific cultural group. (E.g. Find out the strongest predictor of a certain behavior for the target group, and use that to develop a communication program to modify). Which is why I had thought maybe 37F. And why I am asking these sorts of questions in this forum.

I have looked at the 38A. Parts of the job description (working directly with people, the humanitarian focus) appeal to me a great deal. I really like the front-end information gathering and analysis part of the process. Does 38A have a part in this? My hesitation with 38A is that I would not have enough of an analysis challenge. And I am looking for something that provides an opportunity to do at least part of each analysis, development, and delivery. I am most motivated and satisfied to work with a project beginning to end.

Am I on the right track here? And thank you so much for your suggestions.

Last edited by magician; 8 March 2006 at 16:38.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12 July 2005, 21:59
GackMan's Avatar
GackMan GackMan is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 7,185
I'm an intel guy, not psyops. But it sounds like your experience and training could be put to use.

can you intervene in someone's interesting cultural behavior by shooting them in the face if you had to?

Just something to ponder - it is the military and you do have a somewhat touchy feely background.
__________________
"Everything government touches turns to crap." - Ringo Starr
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12 July 2005, 23:08
lal lal is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Metro DC area
Posts: 67
How do you know if you can do something like that before you are put in that situation? Seriously, how can someone without military training know whether or not they can do that? And won't basic training teach you how to react in the "have to" situation?

I have been considering this. With real opportunities to serve, come real potential costs, yes?

And 97E/98G, as well as OCS are still on my list. So thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12 July 2005, 23:30
Doogie320 Doogie320 is offline
Going back
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 3,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by lal
How do you know if you can do something like that before you are put in that situation? Seriously, how can someone without military training know whether or not they can do that? And won't basic training teach you how to react in the "have to" situation?

I have been considering this. With real opportunities to serve, come real potential costs, yes?

And 97E/98G, as well as OCS are still on my list. So thanks.
I've withdrawn my answer until you can learn to fill out your profile as asked to by DROB.
__________________
- I personally have never killed anyone, but I have read some obituaries with pleasure.

- Blue Skies Big Windy 25

- Are you suffering from brain damage? I seriously want to know. If so, I will quit making fun of you. - Joe
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12 July 2005, 23:47
GackMan's Avatar
GackMan GackMan is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 7,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by lal
How do you know if you can do something like that before you are put in that situation? Seriously, how can someone without military training know whether or not they can do that? And won't basic training teach you how to react in the "have to" situation?

I have been considering this. With real opportunities to serve, come real potential costs, yes?

And 97E/98G, as well as OCS are still on my list. So thanks.
how about looking at it from the converse? If I ask it like this: "Do you know you can't?" does that make more sense?

Not picking on you. I just knew a lot of real intellectuals when I was in, who really didn't seem to know that they were joining the Army you know? the one with the guns and the war and the bad guys. Much more so now, than when I joined.

let us know how that MI research goes.


P.S. fill out your profile before someone comes along and asks if you are hot and wants you to post pics of yourself.
__________________
"Everything government touches turns to crap." - Ringo Starr
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 13 July 2005, 02:23
TPD1280's Avatar
TPD1280 TPD1280 is offline
SOCNET Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Little House on the Pasture
Posts: 5,038
Gack is not psyop. He can't even spell psyop correctly. (Notice the distinct lack of an "S" there sigint monkey) :)

lal: like DROB, I am a PSYOP soldier. Look at the top of your screen, see where it says "user cp" ? Click on that. Go in there and click on "edit profile". put some info in there.

You are in the right place to get some of the answers you seek, but you cannot expect much more than you have received without:
1. The willingness to play by the established rules;
2. The ability to follow instructions; and
3. Attention to detail.

Those three things are required for performance in EVERY job in the Army, and make for a much easier time here on SOCNET.

You are asking some very direct questions, and we would simply like to know a bit about the person with whom we are conversing. Understand also that we may not be able to give you the pointed and specific answers you seek. We are not trying to be obtuse, this is a simple matter of security. If you read the Rules of Engagement in the user agreement then you have seen this caveat before.

I am more than willing to help, but will wait to see what you do.
__________________
Government is an unregulated industry.

The 4 Soldierly Values: Candor, Courage, Competence, Commitment

Ekky Ekky Ekky Ekky p-Tang Zoo Boing mumble, mumble
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 13 July 2005, 08:49
lal lal is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Metro DC area
Posts: 67
Okay, all-- Thank you for the tolerance. I skipped the directions, was impatient to post, missed the hint that I needed a profile, and don't mean to offend anyone or waste your time, and certainly don't mean to ask questions that would put you at risk. (Just a thought: hopefully this interesting cultural behavior --I-- don't get shot in the face for on this site. I have so much to learn, and either I need to learn to read a new way, or I can't find it in articles/books, or some part of both. So check out my profile, and let me know if you need to know anything else about me. But no pictures, sorry!)

MI seems to be more cut and dried in terms of what a person does. Which is why I haven't asked questions here. Also because it didn't seem to fit with the forum. But regardless, I am not doing OCS--the branching thing is a sticking point, as is language school.

Yes, it --IS-- the military. But also the --US-- military--and I cannot think of a more powerful foreign policy/development instrument. I have no need to shoot anyone in the face currently. And yes my background is intellectual, although not really touchy-feely. Cultural relativism past its prime quite a while ago--that is why we try to get people to make different choices (we have decided theirs are wrong). Touchy feely would be stopping with a person's opinion; understanding and changing WHY that person has that opinion has consequences.

This is all fine until it comes to security situations and political changes. How can my faculty have an opinion about the war when they haven't been out of the country since it started? When they don't have access to the information that you all do, why should they have a say in how it is conducted? And while all of this is going on, how can I justify spending months/years on expensive projects with next to no impact, except on whether or not my advisor gets tenure or I get an article published? The answer is: It doesn't matter unless I can do something. My heart is ready to serve--my head is just trying to figure out how to maximize impact, and, admittedly, to minimize costs. So your help in asking me the kinds of questions I need to ask myself, telling me about the type of soldier I could be or where I might fit, is really invaluable. (How is that for touch-feely?!)

But thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 13 July 2005, 09:16
Doogie320 Doogie320 is offline
Going back
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 3,530
Perspective....

The average person entering the military with no uniformed time will believe that Basic prepares you to kill. I would say having been to the soft skills Army basic at Jackson that it does not. I would hazard a guess that I am not alone in this opinion and this perception extends beyond Army Basic. The bottom line is that you will have to decide if you can shoot someone from a moral standpoint. If you are going to Basic to get morals.... then maybe night shift manager at a 7-11 is for you.

My last statement is generalized and not specific to you lal. Basic provide the barest of mechanical fundamentals, and little to know mental or moral fundamentals required to kill. You either enter with them or you don't.

Air Force airmen that never expected to go to war are guarding convoys in Iraq, so don't ever say that your MOS won't put you into harm's way. You haven't yet, but do avoid that trap.

Too many people in the 90's decided that the college money was great and that wars would be fought by airpower so they enlisted. Oops.... here's 9/11 and a "shift" in what the military does for a living. If you are joining any branch post-9/11 and are even questioning if you have the mental wherewithal to pull the trigger then I would respectfully suggest that you best serve our country in an un-uniformed (RAT, did I just make up a word? :) ) capacity like the Peace Corps or an NGA somewhere.

I won't pretend to speak for Gack, but I easily see how someone with a pure academic background in various religions and cultures would be considered "touchy-feely" especially given the somewhat liberal slant on college campuses today.

Good luck.
__________________
- I personally have never killed anyone, but I have read some obituaries with pleasure.

- Blue Skies Big Windy 25

- Are you suffering from brain damage? I seriously want to know. If so, I will quit making fun of you. - Joe
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 13 July 2005, 10:40
lal lal is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Metro DC area
Posts: 67
Good point--yes, on a continuum of passing judgment on someone's beliefs and shooting them in the face, I accept the touchy-feely label. (don't like it, though). Again, just learning about your interesting culture...

Morals, though, and I am only pushing in order to understand, we all have whether we recognize them or not. The 17, 18 year old enlisting has morals, but I doubt if s/he has considered fully the consequences of HAVING to kill someone. Isn't that instinct? And in those situations, doesn't instinct override what our personal preferences might be? And I would guess that most people who say "I could never X" have either never really thought about it, or never been put in a have-to situation or both. Gack's "Do you know you can't?" reformulation is very helpful. Right after trying to get me to be a chaplain, every recruiter has asked me that (I guess because of the religion degree?). And of course not--we never know the limits of what we can do.

Then killing someone is a behavior, granted, an instinctual one, but not a moral. But if not in Basic, don't we have to learn how and when to do it at some point? I am sure an imperfect example, but, beginning muay thai one is taught to fight with elbows, knees, etc. It feels totally unnatural. Then, after practicing on a bag a gazillion times, it is a huge shock the first time one uses an elbow or knee effectively when sparring. We do what we have to, after we have learned how to do it. Yes?

Yes, I have considered other opportunities, but am still drawn to this one. Am just trying to figure out the difference between my CNN-understanding and yours (general, uniformed "you"). And choosing one MOS over others is not about NOT choosing the others or avoiding anything. Just about determining the impact-cost equation. I appreciate your suggestion to look elsewhere. And continue to do that. But this army thing--I keep coming back to it.

Anyway, thanks for getting past my profile faux pas!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 13 July 2005, 10:44
lal lal is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Metro DC area
Posts: 67
And by the way, Doogie, is your signature a comment on your experience with this one? Really funny, actually!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 13 July 2005, 11:01
GackMan's Avatar
GackMan GackMan is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 7,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPD1280
Gack is not psyop. He can't even spell psyop correctly. (Notice the distinct lack of an "S" there sigint monkey) :)
my laziness to go back and edit knows no bounds...
__________________
"Everything government touches turns to crap." - Ringo Starr
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 13 July 2005, 11:05
Doogie320 Doogie320 is offline
Going back
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 3,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by lal
And by the way, Doogie, is your signature a comment on your experience with this one? Really funny, actually!
That existed long before this thread crossed my eyes. The fact is we have men that are "killers" or those trained to be where that is their primary occupation. Me? I'm a support guy. Would I pull the trigger? Sure. If I wanted that as a profession or primary occupation I could have made that choice long ago.

I didn't, so I do my absolute best to ensure that our door kickers have what they need. When they do, and they can "make something happen" as a result, then I know I've done my job and that makes me happy, hence the first line of my sig. It's a quote, or paraphrase of a quote, from someone else.
__________________
- I personally have never killed anyone, but I have read some obituaries with pleasure.

- Blue Skies Big Windy 25

- Are you suffering from brain damage? I seriously want to know. If so, I will quit making fun of you. - Joe
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 13 July 2005, 11:16
Kurt V Kurt V is offline
Banned User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Jefferson City, Missouri
Posts: 480
lal, I have only one question, are you hot?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 13 July 2005, 11:56
lal lal is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Metro DC area
Posts: 67
I filled out my profile! Just like you all said! Is "are you hot" code for something I am missing?

I assumed your signature predated the thread, Doogie. I didn't get it, though--thought the last part meant "and was glad that they are dead;" not necessarily "and I took satisfaction from having contributed to their deaths."

So support, yes. That is what 37F, 38A and all the MIs are, right? That I can do. Carry a gun to work I can do--go to work to shoot a gun, not as comfortable with.

Last edited by magician; 8 March 2006 at 16:41.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 13 July 2005, 12:58
PSYOP ROB's Avatar
PSYOP ROB PSYOP ROB is offline
Amateur Barbarian
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Seminole, FL
Posts: 315
So support, yes. That is what 37F, 38A and all the MIs are, right? That I can do. Carry a gun to work I can do--go to work to shoot a gun, not as comfortable with.[/QUOTE]
Its no good carrying it if you arent prepared to use it. We are out among the people frequently in our line of work. Situations have a way of changing from a nice quiet sit down with the local leaders to angry exchanges of gunfire between people with differing agenda rather quickly. From the PMs I have received and the information you have provided, I cant help but wonder if you might be better suited for a CIV job in State or another agency or department of the federal government. PSYOPers are soldiers who do PSYOP. Cant have one without the other. Your expressed desire for autonomy in your workplace and your discomfort with using some of the tools of our trade further reinforce my idea that the military may not be your cup of tea. I think you would however be a great asset to your country in one of the variety of jobs available in the federal government. Dont let all that knowledge go to waste.
__________________
The primary purpose of a staff is to replicate the enemy during peacetime.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 18:52.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET 1996-2018