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  #1  
Old 7 November 2009, 19:36
Avandir Avandir is offline
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The USMC FIST.

I know how the Army FIST is made up, but how is the USMC made up? For instance, the Army has two PVT's, a SPC and and E5 or E6. What about the Marines?
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  #2  
Old 8 November 2009, 11:34
VMI_Marine VMI_Marine is offline
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The FiST is a strange, non-doctrinal animal in the Marine Corps. It combines all types of fire support (mortars, arty, NGF, and CAS) under one umbrella. The FiST team leader is typically the Weapons Plt Cmdr, although in some instances it is the company XO. They have an FO team, TACP team, mortar FO, and sometimes a NGF spot team. The FO team consists of an artillery lieutenant, a scout/observer (equivalent to 13F), and two radio operators. The TACP team has a captain naval aviator and one or two ROs (by T/O he rates four, but I've never seen it). The mortar FO humps his own radio and gear. The spot team is another artillery lieutenant with two scout/observers and two radio operators. Although I have yet to see a real, live NGF spot team. A well-drilled FiST team is a sight to see - within a couple of minutes they will identify targets for suppression, marking, and CAS while deconflicting active gun target lines from the aircraft's flight path by space or altitude. Unfortunately, it's also an extremely rare sight to see, as few battalions can devote the time and personnel to having well-trained FiST teams.
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  #3  
Old 22 August 2010, 15:52
AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT is offline
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You're exactly right. Also, these teams are supported by TACRON controllers who specialize in CAS.. Typically you have a FST leader approving you timelines and TOT's.. you'll have your mortar and arty guys that have their gun target lines, either providing suppression or in some cases illum on deck.. and you'll have your fixed wing A/C at holding points and Rotor bubbas at battle points.. and a shooter (DDG/CG) off the coast... and you build your time line around the aircraft. making sure you deconflict you altitudes, max. ord., danger close, gun target lines, and headings... Ive also seen where the Air Naval Gunfire Liason Company (ANGLICO) will send a SALT out to assist the MEU(SOC) in getting their TAC-P qualified.... Ive done this hundreds of times and its definitely something that never gets old.... "On My Mark, Unleash Hell"
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  #4  
Old 22 August 2010, 16:18
VMI_Marine VMI_Marine is offline
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ANGLICO used to deploy a SALT and 1 or 2 FCTs with each MEU. This dropped off when OIF deployments hit full swing, but I believe all 3 AC companies are trying to get back to supporting the MEUs with an ANGLICO det.

By TACRON controllers, are you referring to the guys from the ARG who apportion the air for the guys on shore? Never worked with TACRON, only the USMC TACC and DASC.
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"This is how it is when the war machine rolls back and forth. You take your pleasure where you can and when you can, and let the circumstances be damned. For tomorrow you may be somewhere else." - Cass

"I understand all of the words you used, but I don't know what you just said." - Gen. Hagee speaking to the MEU S-3
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  #5  
Old 22 August 2010, 17:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT View Post
stuff
I read your intro and still don't know who the hell you are. Are you in the Navy? If so why don't you tell us what you do without the theatrics?
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  #6  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:06
AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT is offline
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Silverbullet, Im a NAVY air traffic controller. I perform the navy equivalent of the USMC ANGLICO. Except I don't deploy at the whims of the MEF.. I deploy with an Amphibious Readiness Group or Expeditionary Strike Group and am attached to the MEU(SOC) onboard. We go forward as a TAC-P and provide artillery, mortar, fixed wing, rotary wing, and Naval Gunfire to our bubbas in the suck. Usual platforms are AV-8B Harriers, AH-W SuperCobras, UH-1N Iroqouis, with the CH-53E and MV-22B serving as our assault platforms. We use DDG's (guided missle destroyers) CG's (guided missle cruisers) as our primary Naval Gunfire platforms, and we deploy aboard NAVY Amphibious Assault Ships (LHD,LHA)... I've worked with plenty Force Recon bubbas and SEALs, as well as the 2nd ANGLICO unit attached with 26 MEU(SOC).. Also did alot of controlling for VMM 263 (REIN) in Kuwait 2009... anymore questions about me just PM.. I came to this site to learn more about Combat Control Teams not to piss anybody off. Noone asked of what I did so there was no explanation.
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  #7  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:20
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I'm not going to use PM.

First of all no one deploys at the whims of a MEF.

Secondly, are you stating you are attached to the MEU, not a Navy asset?

If and when you go into the "suck" who are you working for?

Who did we fight in Kuwait in 09?

You aren't the equivalent of ANGLICO.

Why would a TAC need to control Arty let alone mortars? That is something controlled by local cmd or the division in some arty cases.
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  #8  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:36
AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT is offline
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First of All
ANGLICO units provide MAGTF commanders with an airstrike capability and they report the MEF commander. 2nd ANGLICO reports to II MEF..

2ndly and 3rdly
we deploy attached to a PHIBRON. Once ashore we attach to the MEU(SOC) as a part of the Battalion Landing Team

4thly
I said I did alot of controlling. because thats what I am.. an Air Traffic Controller. during Kuwait sustainment training I provided atc services as a control tower operator, LZ controller, and JTAC for the skids at the ranges.

5thly
You are right not the exact equivalent but the roles are very similar just fulfilled on different scales

6thly
The timelines we build involve all angles of fire support. Mortars and Arty for suppression/ or marking i.e. willie pete or illum on deck... example -2 motar fire; -1 arty illum on deck; fixed wing cas TOT; +1 5inch support from a DDG...

finally
I dont know why you feel the need to antagonize my posts but instead I would like to learn more about CCT from you... what all do you know? do you know any CCT bubbas that can give me some info...
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  #9  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:39
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Is the Corps so hard up for people that they need a Navy ATC to deploy with them? When did this happen? When did this animal even get invented?
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  #10  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:45
AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT is offline
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just started a year or two back... we started sending our officers to the JTAC Primer that Expeditionary Warfare Training Group Mid-Atlantic offers and they left it as a 1 or 2 O-4 JTACs to augment the MEU and enhance their capabilities ashore. We(NAVY) have always apportioned air and been the controlling agency in any type of amphibious assault... utilizing a high density airspace control zone to procedurally vector air assets from the LHD, carrier, and any nearby landing zones; to the target area to be handed off to a JTAC, FAC, or FAC-A for terminal control. after the first few months they decided to add enlisted people to the program and I was the first one.. we went thru a shitload of specialized training and have opened up the mission set exponentially... its all about warfighting capability and being able to enhance multiple elements of the ARG.. We everything from dropping JSOWs and Mavericks to setting up LZ's all throughout Haiti during Operation Unified Response... very veratile and responsive unit...
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  #11  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT View Post
finally
I dont know why you feel the need to antagonize my posts but instead I would like to learn more about CCT from you... what all do you know? do you know any CCT bubbas that can give me some info...
Because we have standards and claims need to be factual.

You are woofing some pretty big stuff which doesn't add up. That is why I'm asking you questions. It started with your intro post in which you acted like you were equal to ANGLICO and continued on with each post.

I can't even tell what school you actually attended and your claims of advanced CQB in another thread make me wonder even more.

I know what ANGLICO does and does not do. Deploying to support the MEF is not a whim deployment.

You may have went ashore for some training and been put under the BLT FAC's but that doesn't mean you are part of them or going into the "suck" with them.

The first person who responded to this thread is someone who actually served with ANGLICO, yet you felt it was ok to come on and expound on his comments.
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  #12  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:49
VMI_Marine VMI_Marine is offline
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You are digging yourself even deeper. And now you've got me a little piqued. SB knows full well what ANGLICO does, he's worked plenty with them. ANGLICO and TACRON are nothing alike, if anything TACRON is I believe closer to a MASS, which staffs the DASC. I've been a team leader in ANGLICO, and deployed as part of a BLT as a company XO. The only Navy bubbas who came ashore as part of the BLT, besides our organic doctors and corpsmen, were the naval gunfire liaison det. TACRON doesn't build any fire support timelines, there are plenty of Marines with the training and experience to handle all aspects of fire support.

If you want to know about CCT, there is a CCT forum and a search function. If you paid the slightest bit of attention, you would see that SilverBullet's profile doesn't even so much as hint at USAF or CCT connections, so why would you even ask him that? Well, besides trying to redirect him from grilling your ass over trying to inflate your job description.

Look, although we didn't deal with any TACRON bubbas during my time at ANGLICO, I feel I have a decent idea of what you do. You're DASCateers. That's great, heaven knows the DASC plays a crucial role in making sure the a/c show up where they're needed - but you don't plan, coordinate, or control fires in support of Marines.
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"This is how it is when the war machine rolls back and forth. You take your pleasure where you can and when you can, and let the circumstances be damned. For tomorrow you may be somewhere else." - Cass

"I understand all of the words you used, but I don't know what you just said." - Gen. Hagee speaking to the MEU S-3
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  #13  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:53
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I am calling B.S. My google-Fu may be weak, but everything I find says that Navy ATC's are no differnt then Army or AF ATC's and Navy JTAC access is controlled by NSW.
Reed
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  #14  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VMI_Marine View Post
ANGLICO and TACRON are nothing alike, if anything TACRON is I believe closer to a MASS, which staffs the DASC.

You're DASCateers. That's great, heaven knows the DASC plays a crucial role in making sure the a/c show up where they're needed - but you don't plan, coordinate, or control fires in support of Marines.
Thank you. Couldn't remember the name DASC to save my life.......LOL
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  #15  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:56
AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT is offline
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We were attached to the 22nd MEU BLT... 1LCDR 1MAJ 2AC enlisted... worked underneath the BLT throughout all of their training and every move they made on deployment we were attached... The ANGLICO did not deploy with the 22nd MEU... we had no ANGLICO det just USMC JTACs from the TAC-P and USN JTACs from the TACRON... I did not work with 2nd ANGLICO until we started to train 26MEU and they underwent some training with us. I never made claims of deploying with/augmenting/ or being a part of an ANGLICO detachment. This site is meant to be used as a forum for people to gain knowledge on particular subjects. subjects that are contained in individual threads. threads that allow people to post comments. I felt I had something to offer in addition to VMI's comments with no disrespect to his Military service or knowledge. Now lean forward and lean hard.
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  #16  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:58
VMI_Marine VMI_Marine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reed11b View Post
I am calling B.S. My google-Fu may be weak, but everything I find says that Navy ATC's are no differnt then Army or AF ATC's and Navy JTAC access is controlled by NSW.
Reed
Reed, the Riverine Squadrons from NECC have JTACs, as well. I helped train a few while they were working up for their first deployment to Iraq back in 06-07.
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"This is how it is when the war machine rolls back and forth. You take your pleasure where you can and when you can, and let the circumstances be damned. For tomorrow you may be somewhere else." - Cass

"I understand all of the words you used, but I don't know what you just said." - Gen. Hagee speaking to the MEU S-3
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  #17  
Old 22 August 2010, 21:59
CarbineM1 CarbineM1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT View Post
I never made claims of deploying with/augmenting/ or being a part of an ANGLICO detachment.
Credentials
22nd MEU(SOC)
TACRON-21
MMT
ANGLICO
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  #18  
Old 22 August 2010, 22:00
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"advanced CQB training"

I'm still waiting for an answer.
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  #19  
Old 22 August 2010, 22:02
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Originally Posted by B2Unit View Post
Credentials
22nd MEU(SOC)
TACRON-21
MMT
ANGLICO
Any answer for this?
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  #20  
Old 22 August 2010, 22:03
AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT AC3(AW/SW)ClearedHOT is offline
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now TACRON has 5 sections,
1. Air Traffic Control Section : Provides radar services to a/c on the ship
2. Plans and Support Section: Builds the ATO and apportions a/c, as well as DIP clearances and other future ops.
3. PMC: Controls all pax, mail, and cargo movements off ship
4. MAT: Marine Augmentation Team deploys alongside the USMC Marine Mobile Team establishing HLZs and TLZs for landing a/c, as well as FARPs and RGRs
5. Close Air Support: JTACs and RO/FO that deploy attached to the BLT

We work very closely with the DASC in an amphibious enviroment. However our duties differ. and we build timelines all the time on the hill and depending on who's controlling..
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