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  #21  
Old 3 March 2002, 19:31
sniper14 sniper14 is offline
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This is getting old

1. "holier than thou" comment: Well, I am Catholic ...

2. Hey, we're on the same page I think regarding the PS vs NPS.

3. I think we all out to shut up and instead put up regarding this biz. Speculation is for investing and real estate. We'll only know these answers down the road.

4. What would you guys think about a thread dedicated to prepping for the pipeline. I didn't see anything that specific and dedicated. I'd love to hear from all of you guys who are getting ready and see what you're doing. I'm pretty tired of debating this issue, I'd rather do something more useful and motivating.

5.
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  #22  
Old 3 March 2002, 19:35
Battboy From Hell Battboy From Hell is offline
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I'm catholic too.

Quote:
4. What would you guys think about a thread dedicated to prepping for the pipeline. I didn't see anything that specific and dedicated. I'd love to hear from all of you guys who are getting ready and see what you're doing. I'm pretty tired of debating this issue, I'd rather do something more useful and motivating.
Sounds like a good idea.

I'd still like more beer though... Maybe gonna have to visit Brewmonkey soon.

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  #23  
Old 3 March 2002, 20:21
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Stampee Stampee is offline
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.
Quote:
4. What would you guys think about a thread dedicated to prepping for the pipeline. I didn't see anything that specific and dedicated. I'd love to hear from all of you guys who are getting ready and see what you're doing. I'm pretty tired of debating this issue, I'd rather do something more useful and motivating.
I would like nothing more than to know what I need to be doing in order to prepare. Because I have until October before I ship out, I feel I have a great opportunity to learn and get prep'd. Any advice and council from the BTDT gods is greatly appreciated.
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  #24  
Old 3 March 2002, 22:28
LeCarre LeCarre is offline
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1. Great proposal Sniper. We could all BENEFIT from some POSITIVE tips on the boards. Training is a topic that I think I could handle with the rest of you.

2. Yes, I meant APFT and not PLDC. Us dumbass non-PS guys type faster than we think.

3. And Battboy, if older is wiser, then I'm f-ing Methusela. At 33, I can't wait to get started. Speculation in real estate is what I've been doing for the past few years and it's generally landed me on my feet, so I apologize if I've seemed a bit too entrepreneurial for you in my posts.

Now, who wants to start that thread...Okay, I will.
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  #25  
Old 3 March 2002, 23:57
Para Para is offline
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Speculation in Real Estate: A few words of wisdom.....don't buy if your speculating. After 7 years in the business, thats not a good thing to do. Buy and sell ONLY if the deal works, NOT because your hoping it will down the road.
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We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask what is our policy? I will say: It is to wage war, by sea, land, and air with all our might and all our strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, What is our aim? I answer in one word: Victory Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival. Winston Churchill
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  #26  
Old 4 March 2002, 00:55
Battboy From Hell Battboy From Hell is offline
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Never done the real estate thing... hell, maybe I should start doing that??? Does it pay for shit?

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  #27  
Old 4 March 2002, 03:02
Jatekos Jatekos is offline
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Now for my two cents. Direct entry can work and worked extremely well with the so-called "SF Babies". Let me give you some reasons. You get motivated young soldiers straight of the street who haven't learned bad habits from time in the military. Most of us who have spent years in SF know that it has turned into a "regular Army" type force due to the influx of Rangers and senior Army type NCOs. Now, don't go ballistic on me because I also spent 4 years in 1/75. The difference is I knew that SF had a different role in our military and adapted myself to THEIR way of operating. I also had great Vietnam era Team Sergeants who showed us what SF was about. Herein lies the key to direct entry success. The experienced guys take the young ones and mold them into highly adaptable SF troops. It worked before and will work again.
Another good point is the fact that these "babies" could spend tons of time on a team since career progression doesn't hit them like it does higher ranked NCOs. Who do you think has more SF experience---A fresh E-6 out of SFAS or an E-5 with five years of team time?
Another point nobody will mention is that a high majority of SFers are married. Before, with direct entry, you had tons of young guys who were single and they did everything together from the moment they woke up until lights out (if they ever had lights out!). The bond these guys had was unbreakable and they became more like brothers than anything else. This doesn't exist today, in my opinion. Sure, the guys will do anything for others but it isn't quite as strong as it used to be.

OK, I've put on my Kevlar and I'm standing by. I thought about using the Somalia technique of placing my wife in front of me. We can learn things from inferior forces.
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  #28  
Old 4 March 2002, 03:22
sniper14 sniper14 is offline
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Those are points nobody has made for the SF 18X program and they have a lot of validity to them I think. No reason to take cover - this ain't a "combative" thread in my opinion (at least it shouldn't be).

In my sniper platoon we had that 'bond' you are referring to. Most of us were single, lived in the barraks together, ate together, partied together, fought together, went to all of the schools together, etc., etc. It was friggin' awesome!

Like I said, we'll all see in due time.
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  #29  
Old 4 March 2002, 06:49
Cochran77
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Thumbs up Thanks Jatekos and Sniper14

Thanks for a little postive input. It looks like alot of guys don't think the 18X program will work. I just enlisted and I ship out April 4th. When I get to Benning I'm going to keep my mouth shut and learn all that I can. I'm not some teenage shittalker like many of the guys I saw down at MEPS. I'm 24 and have been working since I was 14 from construction to Tech. support. But when I get to Benning, I am going to forget about the college and the jobs I've had. I know I will be the lowest of the low and I'll have to earn some respect. I just want the chance to protect our freedom and help other countries obtain their's. I want to be like the many military men I look up to. If you guys want to make fun of me for that, fine, I expect alot worse than some on-line insults pretty soon.
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  #30  
Old 4 March 2002, 09:06
LeCarre LeCarre is offline
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The kind of real estate speculation that I'm doing isn't along the lines of true speculation. I buy, renovate, re-sell and/or rent. One speculative deal was buying a unit in a small resort in Puerto Rico when it was small. Now it's pretty big and while the rents have yet to pay the mortgage, it's appreciated nicely. I've made money and lost money, but at the end of the day, I've been ahead and been doing it full time since '97. Started with a little shitbox and gradually built from there. Anyone who has some street smarts and is fairly resourceful can make it. You'll get to the point where your rents are positive, your properties are appreciating, and you have loads of flexibility. I never thought I'd be where I am right now. Hell, I'm taking off for two years to pursue a dream and leaving my six buildings to my wife to manage! If it's too much for her, there are management companies that will handle them for you for a cut. At that point, you can live and work anywhere.

PM me if you want some more info. A friend turned me onto it, so it's up to me to turn as many others onto it as well. It's the least I can do for you guys who have been out there on the line defending the system that's allowed me to flourish.
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  #31  
Old 4 March 2002, 11:14
Para Para is offline
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I would never buy a rental property with negative cash flow. Break even, sure. But thats me. For those interested in learning financial literacy, a book I would recommend is Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Then pick up one of the books buy Suze Orman.
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We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask what is our policy? I will say: It is to wage war, by sea, land, and air with all our might and all our strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, What is our aim? I answer in one word: Victory Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival. Winston Churchill
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  #32  
Old 4 March 2002, 14:03
Ranger002
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jatekos
Now for my two cents. Direct entry can work and worked extremely well with the so-called "SF Babies". Let me give you some reasons. You get motivated young soldiers straight of the street who haven't learned bad habits from time in the military. Most of us who have spent years in SF know that it has turned into a "regular Army" type force due to the influx of Rangers and senior Army type NCOs. Now, don't go ballistic on me because I also spent 4 years in 1/75. The difference is I knew that SF had a different role in our military and adapted myself to THEIR way of operating. I also had great Vietnam era Team Sergeants who showed us what SF was about. Herein lies the key to direct entry success. The experienced guys take the young ones and mold them into highly adaptable SF troops. It worked before and will work again.
Another good point is the fact that these "babies" could spend tons of time on a team since career progression doesn't hit them like it does higher ranked NCOs. Who do you think has more SF experience---A fresh E-6 out of SFAS or an E-5 with five years of team time?
Another point nobody will mention is that a high majority of SFers are married. Before, with direct entry, you had tons of young guys who were single and they did everything together from the moment they woke up until lights out (if they ever had lights out!). The bond these guys had was unbreakable and they became more like brothers than anything else. This doesn't exist today, in my opinion. Sure, the guys will do anything for others but it isn't quite as strong as it used to be.

OK, I've put on my Kevlar and I'm standing by. I thought about using the Somalia technique of placing my wife in front of me. We can learn things from inferior forces.
Jac rethink this a bit... Of course an E-5 who has spent 5 years on the team has more team time.LOL I did not say that taking folks right off the street would not work. I am saying that a HUGE amount of resources will be spent weeding out and training newbies in skills that do not directly add to the SF mission. Look at the other topic on this board regarding if I had to do this all over again (the "Career" topic) not ONE BTDT starts off with "Well I would enlist directly into SF". There will be some good folks that come out of the 18x program but let me ask you your question in reverse. Who would you rather have on your team to make it deployable? A fresh MOSQ'd E-5 off the street guy with no experiance, or a fresh MOSQ'd E-6 with 6 six years of experiance in the Army? You and I both know without getting into details what is coming down the pike... and they are going to solve that problem with bodies as many as they can get...Off the street or not. Now what do you think MAY happen to standards?
William Hazen
In my opinion BUSH should just ask Congress to declare WAR and get this over with.

And NO BRO I respect all of you guys and your views and I don't want to flame any of you. You may be in the line of fire soon and ya'all have my Prayers and anything else I can do!
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  #33  
Old 4 March 2002, 14:49
sniper14 sniper14 is offline
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"You may be in the line of fire soon and ya'all have my Prayers and anything else I can do!"

Semper Fi and thanks, that means a lot to us. No matter what the situation is with standards, PS VS NPS, for whatever reason our country, specifically SOF, is in need of more soldiers. It's happened in previuos wars and it is happening now. In the end we'll be downrange on the same team, whether we are ready or not. I'm not saying this is the best way to do business, but it is reality. And on that note, all of you (including myself) who are getting ready for this or thinking about this line of work, NEVER forget that the end state is to be prepared for war. It's an ugly beast as is evident by events of late.

Cochran77,
I'll be checking into Benning April 3rd - see you there wardog!

Tango Papa, out.
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  #34  
Old 4 March 2002, 15:30
Jatekos Jatekos is offline
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Hazen, my man!

You know, I posted that message and forgot to add an important point (it was in my head but, hey, I am getting older). The 18x is not the ultimate answer to SF manning. I happen to think it will work and work well as a supplement to the recruitment as it stands today. The reason I say that is because we had some regular Army types on our teams who joined SF and had a great deal of knowledge about how our Army really works and the ways to get around it. Also, when it came to joint training with foreign forces about say...company-size armor/anti armor operations, most SFers who were "babies" didn't have the slightest idea about the topic. That input from guys who had gone through the "Army" training was priceless.

Keep the current system of recruitment and ADD the 18x to bolster it. Standards only fall when we (namely NCOs) allow them to fall. Even if command policy seems to slacken, find other ways to enforce the standard. The available pool for personnel will expand with 18x and not all young kids are idiots. Remember, we all started out as kids and some of us grew up:-)
My problem seems to be that I was a sharp kid but now my boss says I'm a brainless jerk.
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  #35  
Old 4 March 2002, 19:10
Cicero Cicero is offline
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Jatekos, in light of your recent comments, I have re-thought my position, and I think (without being a BTDT) that you're right about the "bad Army habits." I've read a bit about Army SF, and from what I can gather, independent, creative thinking is one of the highest requirements to succeeding. Now, I'm not saying that a Ranger or Airborne soldier isn't creative or independent, but rather that a guy right off the street would probably more prone to think "outside the box" (damn I hate that expression) than a by-the-book regular Army type.
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  #36  
Old 4 March 2002, 22:58
Ranger002
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cicero
Jatekos, in light of your recent comments, I have re-thought my position, and I think (without being a BTDT) that you're right about the "bad Army habits." I've read a bit about Army SF, and from what I can gather, independent, creative thinking is one of the highest requirements to succeeding. Now, I'm not saying that a Ranger or Airborne soldier isn't creative or independent, but rather that a guy right off the street would probably more prone to think "outside the box" (damn I hate that expression) than a by-the-book regular Army type.
Wrong... and evidence of your ignorance. You asked a good question and all you need to do is read and heed. We do not suffer newbie fools gladly.

William Hazen
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  #37  
Old 5 March 2002, 06:03
Battboy From Hell Battboy From Hell is offline
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Well of course Ranger think creatively and independently....

We spend much of our time thinking up new ways to:

Break shit.
Shoot shit.
Shoot shit better.
Break shit better.
Break shit faster.
Carry more weight, but make it weigh less.
Eat less chow, but need less sleep.
Sleep less, but be less tired.
Drink more, but cost less.

If THAT isn't creative and "independent" thinking, I
dunno what the hell is.... hahahahaha......


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  #38  
Old 5 March 2002, 09:13
AirbornePaintman
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cicero
Jatekos, in light of your recent comments, I have re-thought my position, and I think (without being a BTDT) that you're right about the "bad Army habits." I've read a bit about Army SF, and from what I can gather, independent, creative thinking is one of the highest requirements to succeeding. Now, I'm not saying that a Ranger or Airborne soldier isn't creative or independent, but rather that a guy right off the street would probably more prone to think "outside the box" (damn I hate that expression) than a by-the-book regular Army type.
I'm by no means experienced myself (That's why I usually don't add my opinion on these types of threads), but I do know a quick way to get unpopular on here is to voice opinions on topics that one has no experience with.
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  #39  
Old 5 March 2002, 13:51
Sharky
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Cicero....

Thinking "outside the box" requires enough experience to know where the "box" is to begin with. You've been neither inside nor outside the "box" so you really wouldn't know. S2.
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  #40  
Old 28 February 2012, 19:07
JABA JABA is offline
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I was an SF "Baby" back in '80 and graduated the "Q" in '81. I had just turned 19 when I graduated. A lot of my classmates who were "older and wiser" weren't at the graduation because their old asses couldn't hack it. It depends on the individual. The instructors will take care of the weed eating!!! I saw a lot of fucking "men" break down and cry like babies...sneak out of the hooch in the middle of the night to quit at the Head Shed, only to be introduced to the class the next morning before their asses were put on a bus back to Bragg.
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