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  #21  
Old 5 July 2018, 15:31
MDH MDH is offline
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The more that I read about this, I keep asking why is SCUBA such a bad option?
Teach them to breathe underwater, clear mask and clear regulator.
Give the kid a couple of mg of Valium so he doesn’t go into panic mode, snap link him into the guide rope, lead diver, trail diver, have dive medics at the dry areas… just in case.
Thoughts?
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  #22  
Old 5 July 2018, 15:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azatty View Post
Depends on the cave. Water filling a fixed space compresses the air in proportion to the volume occupied by the water. So say you have a 60-foot high chamber at 1 ATA that gets filled with 30 feet of water. ASSuming there is nowhere for the air to escape, air pressure in the space will now be roughly 2 ATA. Cut the volume of the space occupied by the air in half, and you double the pressure, so after a day in the cave at 2 ATA, they could have a deco obligation simply because they were breathing compressed air at more than 1 ATA. But given the diagram in the article, it's not likely.
I believe air is being pumped in, so wouldn't that somewhat prevent the air pressure building?
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  #23  
Old 5 July 2018, 17:17
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If everyone woke up every day and did not make any bonehead mistakes, technical rescue personnel would never get any realistic training. I believe the coach here will be the toughest one to feel comfortable in SCUBA. Kids from my experience are a joy to train. I will continue my prayers for everyone involved in this.
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  #24  
Old 5 July 2018, 18:40
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So I'm going to ask the uneducated on diving question-

Why cant they use Draeger Systems and avoid the bottle change overs?

IIRC, aren't swims in SCUBA School longer than 1.6 miles accomplished with them?
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  #25  
Old 5 July 2018, 18:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGR.Montcalm View Post
So I'm going to ask the uneducated on diving question-

Why cant they use Draeger Systems and avoid the bottle change overs?

IIRC, aren't swims in SCUBA School longer than 1.6 miles accomplished with them?
^I was just thinking this, why not rebreathers? Avoids any issues of hyperventilating and blowing through their gas, easier on the buoyancy. No bottle/reg changes.

Then again, depending on the actual underwater distance, maybe bottle/reg changes are a non issue?

I suspect the people on scene have a pretty good idea what they're doing; the AAR will be interesting. S/F....Ken M
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  #26  
Old 5 July 2018, 18:52
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https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel...ped-thai-boys/

Quote:
Maxtech Networks told The Times of Israel Thursday that its system is providing a voice, data, and video link to the boys who have been stuck in the cave for nearly two weeks, and were only located earlier this week.

The boys, aged 11 to 16, and their 25-year-old coach entered the sprawling Tham Luang Nang Non cave in the northern province of Chiang Rai after a soccer game on June 23. They were found by two British rescue divers on July 2, nine days after they disappeared.

In the Israeli system, a string of small devices, similar to handheld radios, pass wireless communications between each other, enabling a link in places regular radios won’t work, such as where there are major obstacles blocking the line-of-sight between the two ends of the line.

“It is like a daisy-chain,” explained Uzi Hanuni, CEO of Maxtech.

It took 19 of the devices to complete the link to the boys in the cave. They have enough battery power for 10 hours’ use at a time.

“It is a very complex scenario inside the cave,” Hanuni explained.


Rescuers prepare dive gear at the entrance to a cave complex in which 12 boys and their soccer coach are trapped in Mae Sai, Chiang Rai province, in northern Thailand, July 4, 2018. (AP Photo/Sakchai Lalit)
Some sections of the perilous, twisting, passageway, estimated to be over a kilometer in length, are also submerged beneath the rainwater floods that trapped the youths. Hanuni said that data cables were used to traverse those parts of the cave.

After an Israeli acquaintance who runs a rescue team in Thailand and was involved in the early efforts to find the boys contacted Hanuni, Maxtech employee Yuval Zalmanov flew out to Thailand on June 25, bringing the equipment with him in a suitcase.

“We are happy to be able to help,” Hanuni said and added he expects an attempt to extract the children to be made in the coming days. Others have said it may take weeks or months till such an attempt would be made.
Cool.
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  #27  
Old 5 July 2018, 19:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoFiveMike View Post
^I was just thinking this, why not rebreathers? Avoids any issues of hyperventilating and blowing through their gas, easier on the buoyancy. No bottle/reg changes.

Then again, depending on the actual underwater distance, maybe bottle/reg changes are a non issue?

I suspect the people on scene have a pretty good idea what they're doing; the AAR will be interesting. S/F....Ken M
Article from the BBC showing the inherent problems with the dive and rebreathers.

Thai Cave
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44695232

Rebreathers
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36097300

Nothing is easy about this potential rescue.

Can't haul your own tank easily and as a newbie you'll start gasping on a rebreather.

Aye

M
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  #28  
Old 5 July 2018, 19:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGR.Montcalm View Post
So I'm going to ask the uneducated on diving question-

Why cant they use Draeger Systems and avoid the bottle change overs?
Put simply, rebreathers actively try to kill you. Maybe not an issue at the depths contemplated here. But training a kid up on one is way more difficult than open circuit SCUBA.
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  #29  
Old 5 July 2018, 23:10
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AP, CNN, BBC, and Thai authorities are saying a Thai Navy SEAL has lost his life due to lack of oxygen.

Thai cave rescue death:

- Diver named as Saman Kunan
- 'His job was to deliver oxygen, did not have enough on his way back'
- Lost consciousness and could not be revived by colleagues
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  #30  
Old 5 July 2018, 23:45
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RIP SEAL.
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  #31  
Old 6 July 2018, 00:40
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  #32  
Old 6 July 2018, 00:55
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  #33  
Old 6 July 2018, 01:05
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  #34  
Old 6 July 2018, 03:43
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  #35  
Old 6 July 2018, 04:03
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  #36  
Old 6 July 2018, 06:18
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  #37  
Old 6 July 2018, 07:14
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  #38  
Old 6 July 2018, 07:39
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  #39  
Old 6 July 2018, 08:19
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The initial view I saw of the geography showed these kids to be well above sea level. That changes the dive table. Also, O2 is toxic below about 20 feet without some sort of mixed gas. While designed to be a closed system, its not perfect, you have to add O2 and for an "Hours" long trip. You will likely have to change O2 bottles. This is a fairly advanced technique.
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  #40  
Old 6 July 2018, 09:02
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