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  #41  
Old 22 December 2018, 18:46
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It's not like he went storming out. He gave 2 months notice.
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  #42  
Old 23 December 2018, 15:35
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Mattis will not stay on till February as per his resignation. Shanahan (current Deputy) will take over on Jan 1. Apparently POTUS did not the like the tone of that resignation letter.

Emotional reaction by POTUS in my opinion.
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  #43  
Old 23 December 2018, 16:02
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Originally Posted by usmc_3m View Post
Mattis will not stay on till February as per his resignation. Shanahan (current Deputy) will take over on Jan 1. Apparently POTUS did not the like the tone of that resignation letter.

Emotional reaction by POTUS in my opinion.
Removing a lame duck SecDef as early as possible seems rational, not emotional.

In my opinion.
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  #44  
Old 23 December 2018, 16:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmc_3m View Post
Mattis will not stay on till February as per his resignation. Shanahan (current Deputy) will take over on Jan 1. Apparently POTUS did not the like the tone of that resignation letter.

Emotional reaction by POTUS in my opinion.
Not really-if you are running a project, or the country, no need to keep someone on who does not want to be there, does not agree with the direction of the project. No room for dissenters.
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  #45  
Old 23 December 2018, 16:32
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Quote:
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Removing a lame duck SecDef as early as possible seems rational, not emotional.

In my opinion.
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Not really-if you are running a project, or the country, no need to keep someone on who does not want to be there, does not agree with the direction of the project. No room for dissenters.
Yeah, I get that.
I'm clearly showing my bias for Mattis. I'm a jarhead - can't help it.
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  #46  
Old 23 December 2018, 18:26
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Originally Posted by BigNickT View Post
Trump has been neither worn out nor subverted, and I doubt seriously he's holding out for a job at a think tank.

I was referring to the arrogance portion of his post.
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  #47  
Old 23 December 2018, 18:29
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Not really-if you are running a project, or the country, no need to keep someone on who does not want to be there, does not agree with the direction of the project. No room for dissenters.

Ah, no room for dissenters, so yes men are what is best?
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  #48  
Old 23 December 2018, 18:39
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Ah, no room for dissenters, so yes men are what is best?
Not at all. Dissent is healthy - up until the point that the leader makes a decision. Then it's time to either support that decision or GTFO.
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  #49  
Old 23 December 2018, 18:44
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So what exactly was Mattis's stance on the entire Syria situation? The whole "he wanted to maintain a presence in Syria" is nebulous and doesn't mean anything --- other than translate into 'we need to be there to maintain an endless status quo like we do in AFG/IRQ/etc' (at least in my mind). Which is unacceptable. Either unleash the fury of the American war machine to end, once and for all by fire and blood, whatever 'threat' there is to the American people/way of life. Or GTFO. No in-between. No half-measures. No more endless bullshit wars/conflicts/regime changes/'nation-building' that drain our coffers and our society of honorable young men who are dwindling fast and being replaced by retarded cowardly soy boys. Let our "allies" in that AO do their own fucking dirty work for once.

If that is the shit that Mattis wanted, then I vehemently disagree with that idea and POTUS is taking the proper course of action. And I say this as someone who would, if placed in a room with him, call him out for the bump-stock banning bullshittery that he just pulled. Let the Kurds shit their pants. And don't get me wrong --- fuck the Turkroaches too --- I'd just as soon see them eradicated and their capital's name returned to it's proper title.

Here's to hoping that the POTUS's instincts are correct this time.
  #50  
Old 23 December 2018, 19:16
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No legit reason why Mattis has to go earlier than his planned depature date. Guess the President didn't like the TV coverage of the letter, or doesn't want Mattis sitting in front of the Senate and House Armed Services Committees next month.

Sure the Deputy SecDef is clued into all the same issues, but now you have someone double hatting two very full time jobs. I really find it hard to believe that Mattis' displeasure with the President's Syria decision would have made him not execute or at worst, delegate as the primary official someone else to see that it gets done once the order is formally given.

In the middle of a government shutdown we're looking at these key posts being filled by placeholders. Less than ideal to provide adequate staffing for someone who "hires the best people."
Acting WH CoS
Acting SecDef
Acting AG
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  #51  
Old 23 December 2018, 19:52
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Or you're conditioned by the professional politicians to think we should staff a certain way.

The gov, just like DOD is top heavy. You act like there's no one capable off picking up the slack for those deputy's to get the deputy work done.

Why keep someone around for 2 months who made it clear he doesn't support his boss decisions and made sure everyone knew?

That would be dumb.
  #52  
Old 23 December 2018, 21:46
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Originally Posted by btq96r View Post
No legit reason why Mattis has to go earlier than his planned depature date. Guess the President didn't like the TV coverage of the letter, or doesn't want Mattis sitting in front of the Senate and House Armed Services Committees next month.

Sure the Deputy SecDef is clued into all the same issues, but now you have someone double hatting two very full time jobs. I really find it hard to believe that Mattis' displeasure with the President's Syria decision would have made him not execute or at worst, delegate as the primary official someone else to see that it gets done once the order is formally given.

In the middle of a government shutdown we're looking at these key posts being filled by placeholders. Less than ideal to provide adequate staffing for someone who "hires the best people."
Acting WH CoS
Acting SecDef
Acting AG
You are wrong. In the private sector this is the norm if the person who handed in their resignation is thought to be hostile. The General did demonstrate some hostility. See ya, thank you for your service, we'll move on without you.

I actually like the private sector touch being brought to the Executive Branch. Time to cut all of the fat and get the taxpayers some actual return on their investment.
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  #53  
Old 23 December 2018, 23:11
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Originally Posted by Fubar View Post
You are wrong. In the private sector this is the norm if the person who handed in their resignation is thought to be hostile. The General did demonstrate some hostility. See ya, thank you for your service, we'll move on without you.

I actually like the private sector touch being brought to the Executive Branch. Time to cut all of the fat and get the taxpayers some actual return on their investment.

Like Rumsfeld and Iraq?
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  #54  
Old 24 December 2018, 00:15
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Respectfully, you are comparing a chicken hawk who spent half his life inside the swamp. He's all about keeping the wars going, which it appears Trump is not.
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  #55  
Old 24 December 2018, 09:30
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Originally Posted by firstshirt View Post
Removing a lame duck SecDef as early as possible seems rational, not emotional.

In my opinion.
Info is starting to come out. One of the reasons stated for his early replacement is that the admin didn't want the spectacle of a sitting SECDEF testifying in front of congress that he disagreed with policy.

I don't know whether that is one of the initial reasons - or a quick thinking PAO rationalizing after the fact. But IMHO, with the press looking for anything to take issue with, having Gen Mattis not testifying as SECDEF on policy matters, makes sense.
  #56  
Old 24 December 2018, 10:53
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Originally Posted by Fu King Lawyer View Post
Info is starting to come out. One of the reasons stated for his early replacement is that the admin didn't want the spectacle of a sitting SECDEF testifying in front of congress that he disagreed with policy.

I don't know whether that is one of the initial reasons - or a quick thinking PAO rationalizing after the fact. But IMHO, with the press looking for anything to take issue with, having Gen Mattis not testifying as SECDEF on policy matters, makes sense.
I saw that as well but, would that really work?

Congress and the various subcommittees can call anyone they want to come testify before them; might be some hemming and hawing before it happens but generally it does. If that's the case, even though it would be normal for the sitting Secretary of Defense to go before them, there wouldn't be any reason they still couldn't call on General Mattis if they wanted something to hit the President with mediawise.
  #57  
Old 24 December 2018, 11:08
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Despite his apparent opposition to it, General Mattis has signed the execute order to withdraw all U.S. forces from Syria:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/def...hdrawal-orders
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  #58  
Old 24 December 2018, 11:17
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I saw that as well but, would that really work?

Congress and the various subcommittees can call anyone they want to come testify before them; might be some hemming and hawing before it happens but generally it does. If that's the case, even though it would be normal for the sitting Secretary of Defense to go before them, there wouldn't be any reason they still couldn't call on General Mattis if they wanted something to hit the President with mediawise.
Congress can subpoena and I suspect they will call him. However, he would be testifying as a former SECDEF, same status as any other former SECDEF.

Testifying as a former, he couldn't be tasked/requested by congress to retrieve and submit records as he would no longer be in charge of DoD.

I add that I have found Gen Mattis to be a man of integrity, who puts the nation first. I could be wrong, but I don't think he would ever assume some sort of a "Whistleblower" status and go after the president before the congress. I don't think he shares the same values as say, former FBI Director James Comey? He may say he (respectfully) disagrees with him, but the only mud slinging would be the result of media slanting their reporting, IMHO. Then again, there may be more going on than is apparent, and if he believes it to be in the national interest, he may stand toe to toe and express underlying reasons for his resignation beyond those stated in his letter.

That would be interesting....

Last edited by Fu King Lawyer; 24 December 2018 at 11:23. Reason: Wanted to make sure dotgov watching our social media reads this.
  #59  
Old 25 December 2018, 02:12
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Private sector, if ya don't like it; leave. Express inability to agree with your boss, you're gone whether you meant to get stumped or not.

Why are so many people so conditioned to think that the way our politicians act is what's Constitutionally required, or just fucking wrong?
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  #60  
Old 25 December 2018, 16:18
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agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbullet View Post
Or you're conditioned by the professional politicians to think we should staff a certain way.

The gov, just like DOD is top heavy. You act like there's no one capable off picking up the slack for those deputy's to get the deputy work done.

Why keep someone around for 2 months who made it clear he doesn't support his boss decisions and made sure everyone knew?

That would be dumb.
I think Trump has been pretty transparent that this is his way to get after bloated bureaucracy. I also hope the NSC stays slimmed down going forward.
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