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  #81  
Old 18 July 2017, 07:22
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Originally Posted by bobmueller View Post
Regarding LE misconduct in general, Reason magazine had this piece up a few years ago about a "police offenders registry," made potent by the feds tightening the strings on the federal money bag. Any thoughts on whether it's time for something like this, or whether this would do any good?
The hiring LE agency shouldn't be so lazy that they can't call around to the last agency a guy worked for and find out weither or not he's a turd.
The magizines writer also seems bias to me. Refering to the guy who arrested Eric Garner as having been "previously accused, on two separate occasions, of racially motivated misconduct". So the mere accusation is enough to get you run out of law enforcement? If that's the case, be prepared to having a revolving door in the hiring department. People don't like getting tickets or getting arrested and they lie.
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  #82  
Old 18 July 2017, 11:23
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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Originally Posted by Whitebean54 View Post
The hiring LE agency shouldn't be so lazy that they can't call around to the last agency a guy worked for and find out weither or not he's a turd.
The problem with that is the time and workhours it takes to get in touch with someone who will give you an honest opinion of the officer, and not the "official" version of his record. Nobody likes to talk about the real reason someone left, just the official version. I'm not sure this would do any better toward fixing that.
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  #83  
Old 18 July 2017, 11:27
Agoge Agoge is offline
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Originally Posted by bobmueller View Post
The problem with that is the time and workhours it takes to get in touch with someone who will give you an honest opinion of the officer, and not the "official" version of his record. Nobody likes to talk about the real reason someone left, just the official version. I'm not sure this would do any better toward fixing that.
It doesn't take that long - especially with other LEA's. It is more due to laziness as Whitebean stated. I've done too many backgrounds to know that it isn't that time consuming. If anything, that becomes an excuse to NOT do a thorough background.
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  #84  
Old 18 July 2017, 13:46
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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It doesn't take that long - especially with other LEA's. It is more due to laziness as Whitebean stated. I've done too many backgrounds to know that it isn't that time consuming. If anything, that becomes an excuse to NOT do a thorough background.
Are you able to talk to talk to other beat officers who actually worked with the candidate? It's next to impossible to do that in the civilian world, and I assumed this to be the case in LE. (I only worked at one small agency, so never went through a "typical" hiring process).
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  #85  
Old 18 July 2017, 13:53
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Are you able to talk to talk to other beat officers who actually worked with the candidate? It's next to impossible to do that in the civilian world, and I assumed this to be the case in LE. (I only worked at one small agency, so never went through a "typical" hiring process).
On many of them I did speak with co-workers as well as supervisors. I did find that many of them were actually honest...including their HR or personnel departments. I find they are considerably more accommodating in the last five or so years than they were 15 or more ago. Times are changing and a lot of departments are trying to prevent the bad apples from entering their ranks at the beginning. With that said, I do feel for the smaller departments that don't have the connections or manpower to thoroughly check their applicants and end up hiring other department's refuse.
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  #86  
Old 18 July 2017, 13:56
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Good, repeat, good backgrounds stop 99% of bad hires. If you have a good BI, he can dig and turn over rocks, talk to former patrol members etc.
Thats where you will find go-no go info. Officially anymore, you pretty much get nothing due to lawsuit concerns. When I do one, I'd dig. If I found a discrepancy between he background info provided vs what I was finding, I dug into it to see why. Once you have experience doing BI, you can tell when somebody is trying to hide shit vs accidental omissions.
Once you find a deliberate shading of facts, the BI is over
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  #87  
Old 18 July 2017, 14:46
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DM said it best. These agencies allow the bad officer to resign, thus they're allowed to keep their POST certification.

Fire them and revoke their POST certification. If you don't fire them, then pull their credentials and arrest powers and stick them at a desk doing admin shit or mowing the lawn or taking out the trash or something...but get them off the street!

The agency I worked for, I saw a number of Troopers that should have been fired, instead, they were just sent off to the other side of the state to work in another jurisdiction.
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  #88  
Old 18 July 2017, 23:51
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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4 states (Hawaii, Massachusetts, New York, and Rhode Island) do not certify officers at the state level, for what that's worth.

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  #89  
Old 19 July 2017, 19:51
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Believeraz Believeraz is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris-Harper View Post
DM said it best. These agencies allow the bad officer to resign, thus they're allowed to keep their POST certification.

Fire them and revoke their POST certification. If you don't fire them, then pull their credentials and arrest powers and stick them at a desk doing admin shit or mowing the lawn or taking out the trash or something...but get them off the street!

The agency I worked for, I saw a number of Troopers that should have been fired, instead, they were just sent off to the other side of the state to work in another jurisdiction.
One issue that's surprisingly simple but frustrating in the big picture: we can't keep someone from resigning under investigation. If they resign, they cannot be compelled based on condition of employment to answer questions in an internal (administrative/non-criminal) investigation. We are required to present an accused LEO with the full results of the internal investigation (to include witness interview transcripts) prior to them being formally interviewed in that internal investigation. The interview of the accused LEO is the final step in the investigation.

Too often if they resign prior to being interviewed, certain degrees of misconduct cannot be sustained (situationally dependent). If the allegations are not sustained, it may not necessarily impact their LE certification, or at least not to the fullest extent. Resigning under investigation can leave someone unemployable...but it's not an absolute.

All too often (in my opinion) internal investigators present the facts of the investigation to the accused and explain that it's in their interest to resign at this point. It "fixes the glitch" without the agency losing as much face as they might otherwise.

Just my perspective.
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  #90  
Old 19 July 2017, 20:00
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How topical:

https://youtu.be/5XMdJWhDfMs
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  #91  
Old 19 July 2017, 21:07
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