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  #201  
Old 19 June 2017, 12:57
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Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
It generally means "Good on you for having some initiative, but you used it in a completely idiotic way."

I didn't take his post as condoning the attack. But, we see what we want to see I guess.
I did not take his post as condoning the attack either, but I have little doubt (10%) that B5R was looking to a point of contention.

As to the attack - I don't condone it personally but at some point how can you not expect some of these Brits to get pissed and fight back?
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  #202  
Old 19 June 2017, 13:06
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Yeah. Basically "Good for you for wanting to remove kebab. Probably not the best way to go about doing it though".

And honestly, all these talking heads on TV and elsewhere bitching about how "its an act of terrorism!". It's like they HAVE to say that. As if a rape victim clawing the eyes out of her attacker is also "assault". But hey, this is [current year+2] so maybe these mewling cowards actually believe that.

We sit here after every fucking attack and bitch about "how something isn't being done" and how "oh when will they ever learn?". And then 'we' get our jimmies rustled when some lone person acts out? I mean, come on now, let's just be honest with ourselves that we're really just saying this shit because the political environment forces us to.
  #203  
Old 19 June 2017, 13:10
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Yeah. Basically "Good for you for wanting to remove kebab. Probably not the best way to go about doing it though".

And honestly, all these talking heads on TV and elsewhere bitching about how "its an act of terrorism!". It's like they HAVE to say that. As if a rape victim clawing the eyes out of her attacker is also "assault". But hey, this is [current year+2] so maybe these mewling cowards actually believe that.

We sit here after every fucking attack and bitch about "how something isn't being done" and how "oh when will they ever learn?". And then 'we' get our jimmies rustled when some lone person acts out? I mean, come on now, let's just be honest with ourselves that we're really just saying this shit because the political environment forces us to.
Agree.

Knowing the political environment in the UK though, this will be used as an excuse to put a guy like Tommy Robinson back in jail.
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  #204  
Old 19 June 2017, 13:30
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
As if a rape victim clawing the eyes out of her attacker is also "assault"
Of course, it's not... but a rape victim later clawing the eyes of some random man on the street is an assault.


I was working for the city during the Rodney King riots and one of the administrative people defended the video of the rioters pulling a random white man out of his truck and beating him severely.

He referred to it as payback for what whites had done to Rodney King as though that white truck driver deserved it.


Assuming this driver in London did, in fact, deliberately drive into a crowd of Muslims with the intention of causing harm...
calling it payback or revenge makes as much sense as that guy who rationalized beating the white trucker.

"Retaliation" against innocent people is the terrorist M.O.

Blowing up cafes, shooting up concerts, driving through crowds... all as retaliation for action in Syria, Western presence in the Middle East, and so on.
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  #205  
Old 19 June 2017, 13:46
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Originally Posted by Bravo Five Romeo View Post
Of course, it's not... but a rape victim later clawing the eyes of some random man on the street is an assault.
Yes. The only thing people are allowed to do is to try and vote their problems away. Either vote for the guy that wants millions of muslims to rape pillage and burn your country to the ground. Or vote for the guy that only wants hundreds of thousands to rape pillage and burn your country to the ground. Got it. What a fucking fantastic paradigm we have to work with.

Look, I get that we can't "condone" it because of the political bullshit this country is infected with. But to say that it's uncalled and/or unjustified is ludicrous.



For that matter, this Tshirt was made for indians on "tshirthell.com". Can't wait for the european version soon.

  #206  
Old 19 June 2017, 14:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo Five Romeo View Post
He referred to it as payback for what whites had done to Rodney King as though that white truck driver deserved it. Assuming this driver in London did, in fact, deliberately drive into a crowd of Muslims with the intention of causing harm...
calling it payback or revenge makes as much sense as that guy who rationalized beating the white trucker.
I remember seeing the beating of that truck driver, Reginald Denny, and I can see how that analogy might make sense. However, the reason it doesn't is this: though the black dude who threw that half a brick like a fastball into the prone skull of Denny may have thought so, there was no grand movement among the white populace of America to subjugate and either enslave or convert the black people of America into a new belief system which would deprive them of all their rights and freedoms.

That is the very objective of the leaders of the mosques of England, openly and proudly proclaimed from the rooftops. Today in the news there are marchers in the streets of London proudly flying the flag of Hezbollah and proclaiming that Shariah will be the only law of England. Obviously not all Muslims in England are radicalized jihadist sympathizers, but those who just sat through the sermon at one of those radicalized mosques could be logically assumed to share that ideology. Reginald Denny was attacked over the utterly baseless assumption that because he was white he must be an evil oppressor. The worshippers at that mosque were attacked based on what they themselves had proclaimed in the media and on the streets.

Should unarmed people be randomly run down with a van? Obviously not. The question is whether violence committed by immigrants with the objective of blocking assimilation, carving out autonomous zones immune to national law, silencing all criticism of their beliefs and actions, and calling for the overthrow of the government is the same and should be treated the same as violence by citizens who are disgusted that their own government allows all that to happen.

Maybe yes, maybe no, but it's not a debateable point because the British government won't allow the debate to happen out of bowing deference to Chowdry and the other radical imams who are Islamizing Britain. When there is no allowed free speech to speak up against Islamization, and the state run media and police always side with the Muslims, those who would resist Islamization are seen and treated as criminals by their own government and cuckolded countrymen. The peaceable English people who want no trouble are the very ones who are writing off the future existence of England.
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  #207  
Old 19 June 2017, 14:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post

Look, I get that we can't "condone" it because of the political bullshit this country is infected with. But to say that it's uncalled and/or unjustified is ludicrous.
So, now we're taking pro-tips from the terrorists?
Fuck me, we really are too stupid to survive.
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  #208  
Old 19 June 2017, 14:41
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I kinda figured it was...."You run over my people? Well fuck you I will run over some of yours and see how you like it". But then again I am vindictive like that. It's war. People are going to get hurt and die. That's how war works. Maybe this isn't a traditional war, but it is still a war. Innocent people are dying every day. Better theirs than ours.
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  #209  
Old 19 June 2017, 14:44
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Sorry about the links. Shouldn't have used my phone.

If it was just some random mosque nobody knows what goes on inside the walls then yeah, senseless. If OTOH it was a known jihad fucking mosque, PAYBACK.
  #210  
Old 19 June 2017, 14:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
I kinda figured it was...."You run over my people? Well fuck you I will run over some of yours and see how you like it". But then again I am vindictive like that. It's war. People are going to get hurt and die. That's how war works. Maybe this isn't a traditional war, but it is still a war. Innocent people are dying every day. Better theirs than ours.
This is really going to make them think twice about attending that mosque? Color me skeptical that the cost-benefit of adopting terrorist tactics plays out in our favor.

Furthermore, ramming people with vans is operating from about as extreme a position of weakness as you can possibly get. Are we really so close to complete defeat that we have to resort to that?

From my perspective, the only thing adding lone wolf retaliatory attacks to the mix gets us is further gov't crackdowns on individual liberty --- which, correct me if I'm wrong, is the actual core of our culture that we should be trying to preserve and defend.
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  #211  
Old 19 June 2017, 15:16
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Originally Posted by Baildog View Post
Furthermore, ramming people with vans is operating from about as extreme a position of weakness as you can possibly get. Are we really so close to complete defeat that we have to resort to that?
The gun laws in Britain are rather extreme. Even the purchase of knives and hammers can draw law enforcement attention. The reason the terrorists have taken to using vehicle attacks is that it is so hard to get a real weapon legally without law enforcement noticing and as a result quite expensive to get one on the black market. Those same restrictions apply to non-immigrants. The Europeans disarmed their civilians long enough ago that most Euro adults have never had a firearm, sword, bow, or even a large knife in their hands, much less had any training in how to use one. As an example of that mentality, observe how the crowd at the linked Ted Talk responds when a Dutch general shows them a rifle and explains why they are still necessary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjAsM1vAhW0
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  #212  
Old 19 June 2017, 15:19
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Originally Posted by Baildog View Post

Furthermore, ramming people with vans is operating from about as extreme a position of weakness as you can possibly get. Are we really so close to complete defeat that we have to resort to that?
I thought it was already covered that a vehicle vs. pedestrians was a highly cost effective technique. and more bang for the buck than knives or machetes. the "good Brits" didn't get to keep their guns either. so lone wolf "sniper" with assault weapons" isn't a really viable option in Britain, even for the Good Brits... tit for tat on the TTPs has a certain poetic justice to it too.

worked pretty well for Rangers historically, anyway.
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  #213  
Old 19 June 2017, 15:25
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Originally Posted by ET1/ss nuke View Post
The gun laws in Britain are rather extreme. Even the purchase of knives and hammers can draw law enforcement attention. The reason the terrorists have taken to using vehicle attacks is that it is so hard to get a real weapon legally without law enforcement noticing and as a result quite expensive to get one on the black market. Those same restrictions apply to non-immigrants. The Europeans disarmed their civilians long enough ago that most Euro adults have never had a firearm, sword, bow, or even a large knife in their hands, much less had any training in how to use one. As an example of that mentality, observe how the crowd at the linked Ted Talk responds when a Dutch general shows them a rifle and explains why they are still necessary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjAsM1vAhW0
Oh, I am well aware of that. Perhaps I misspoke by being too specific. It was not specifically choice of weapon, but rather choice of tactic and target, that I believe demonstrates operating from a position of weakness. Resorting to terrorism is weakness to being with.
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  #214  
Old 19 June 2017, 15:30
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Originally Posted by Baildog View Post
Oh, I am well aware of that. Perhaps I misspoke by being too specific. It was not specifically choice of weapon, but rather choice of tactic and target, that I believe demonstrates operating from a position of weakness. Resorting to terrorism is weakness to being with.
Personally, I don't like the term "terrorism" as it is used with this person's actions. The press and government like to label it that way, but I'm not sure it applies. This guy was seeking revenge...to me, there is a difference. As to the method he employed, it really doesn't make a difference one way or the other. (I am strictly speaking to this incident as to terrorism and methods.)
  #215  
Old 19 June 2017, 15:37
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Okay. Since some really have a hard time acknowledging that we're in a war here, I'll pose the following: "What can the average Joe/Nigel do to stop it?". And let's apply the precious 'nonviolent' criteria since that's really the gold standard for resistance nowadays.
  • We've seen that 'voting' for change doesn't work, as both parties seem to be insistent on continuing massive immigration.
  • We've seen that 'assimilation' doesn't and won't work with the Muslims because it hasn't anywhere else they've migrated in the world.
  • We've seen that people even speaking out will get them arrested, so they can't even "petition the crown" or whatever Brits are supposed to do.
So what are they to do then? Because as far as I can tell, there really isn't any option left. Keep in mind this isn't some BS policy position like "should we have 4% tax on soda, or 7% tax on soda?" where you get a do-over if your position fails. This is for the very future of what Britain (in this case) is and will become. It's for keeps and it's forever and all time. Whether their Union Jack will continue to fly, or if it will be the Green Hezbollah flag above their Parliament ---- or some bastardization of both.
  #216  
Old 19 June 2017, 15:37
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Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
Personally, I don't like the term "terrorism" as it is used with this person's actions. The press and government like to label it that way, but I'm not sure it applies. This guy was seeking revenge...to me, there is a difference. As to the method he employed, it really doesn't make a difference one way or the other. (I am strictly speaking to this incident as to terrorism and methods.)

Did he lose someone close to him?
Seems to me this was an act of violence against non-specific civilians motivated by a desire to provoke a political outcome by spreading fear amongst a given community. That, to me, is terrorism.
And if, as seems to be the majority opinion, Britain is losing the war to the point that lone-wolf acts of terrorism are called for, we are in bad shape.
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  #217  
Old 19 June 2017, 15:45
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Did he lose someone close to him?
Seems to me this was an act of violence against non-specific civilians motivated by a desire to provoke a political outcome by spreading fear amongst a given community. That, to me, is terrorism.
And if, as seems to be the majority opinion, Britain is losing the war to the point that lone-wolf acts of terrorism are called for, we are in bad shape.
You could be right, I'm just waiting to see what he says -- if he talks -- about his reasoning behind it. I'm just not ready to call it that an not simply his targeting the mosque for revenge due to the past recent incidents.
  #218  
Old 19 June 2017, 15:54
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Okay. Since some really have a hard time acknowledging that we're in a war here, I'll pose the following: "What can the average Joe/Nigel do to stop it?". And let's apply the precious 'nonviolent' criteria since that's really the gold standard for resistance nowadays.
  • We've seen that 'voting' for change doesn't work, as both parties seem to be insistent on continuing massive immigration.
  • We've seen that 'assimilation' doesn't and won't work with the Muslims because it hasn't anywhere else they've migrated in the world.
  • We've seen that people even speaking out will get them arrested, so they can't even "petition the crown" or whatever Brits are supposed to do.
So what are they to do then? Because as far as I can tell, there really isn't any option left. Keep in mind this isn't some BS policy position like "should we have 4% tax on soda, or 7% tax on soda?" where you get a do-over if your position fails. This is for the very future of what Britain (in this case) is and will become. It's for keeps and it's forever and all time. Whether their Union Jack will continue to fly, or if it will be the Green Hezbollah flag above their Parliament ---- or some bastardization of both.
In case I was lumped in your opening comment, I am absolutely convinced we are at war. But I believe it is still in total primarily an ideological/cultural war, that spills over int o violence. I am unconvinced that we are getting our asses kicked so bad that the only thing left to fight for is mere survival (and yes, I have been keeping up with current events).

And so I cannot agree with the premise that democracy has failed and must be abandoned (point 1 above) in favor of fighting in the streets. Yes, many on the left may not believe (certainly don't act as if they believe) that Western culture is fundamentally superior. And that sort of cultural relativism is highly dangerous and corrosive. But for you to contend that democracy has essentially failed (point 1 above) and that we have reached the point where it is incumbent upon individuals (sometimes referred to as "lone wolves") to actively take the fight to the streets seems to me be equally dangerous and corrosive to the ideological and cultural ideals that I think actually make Western culture far superior to Islamic culture.


ETA: As far as assimilation (point 2) goes, my suspicion is that the primary reason it hasn't worked has more to do with it not really being tried (see: cultural relativism) than anything else.
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  #219  
Old 19 June 2017, 16:22
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Originally Posted by Baildog View Post
In case I was lumped in your opening comment, I am absolutely convinced we are at war. But I believe it is still in total primarily an ideological/cultural war, that spills over int o violence. I am unconvinced that we are getting our asses kicked so bad that the only thing left to fight for is mere survival (and yes, I have been keeping up with current events).
I was lumping everyone in, as in society in general, because I keep seeing this refusal to even acknowledge Islam's, repeatedly stated, war on us. Even now, with little girls being blown up at a pop concerts. Or teens being gunned down in a nightclub and having their genitals removed and the women stabbed in their privates. Or should I post the picture of the 11 y.o. Swedish girl that was literally dismembered in one of their car attacks (rhetorical)?

As to the rest of the post, I am going to assume that you think that the Brits can still go to the polls and vote their way out of this mess, and that Democracy still has a chance. So to follow up: What mess, of this magnitude, have we ever voted ourselves out of? We know the political dynamic that is taking place in the EU. Because it's the same that takes place here. Either vote for Socialist 1, or Socialist 2 ---and voting for anyone else will result in the "other person" getting elected. That's democracy for you. Which is why our Founders despised it so readily and did everything they could from keeping us from falling into the trap we've been in since the beginning of the 20th century.

What possible defense is there against this demographic warfare? When you cannot vote against it? And you cannot even speak out against it? When every single official government entity is seemingly working nonstop to replace you and your way of life with people who will rape your wife and daughters, behead you and your sons, and destroy the world that your ancestors fought and died for over the countless centuries to ensure you could be born and live in? It's sheer madness.

To that end, it seems to me that everyone saying that "there's still hope to work out things peacefully" are really honestly just grasping at straws.

And for the record, yes -- my culture IS BETTER than theirs. Shall we go down the litany of things that make it so? Call me a cultural relativist, but our Western Civilization culture IS better than theirs. And people talking about how they love the local spicy food ethnic cuisine as being the the reason for displacing ours with theirs is utter nonsense. Nonsense bordering on my 'treason/subverstion/sedtition' nerve.

People are getting their backs to the wall. And are lashing out. Any creature on this earth will do that. Even the lowliest most abused dog on earth will fight back when backed into a corner. Of course, 'we can't condone this', but shit really? Are we now calling these people terrorists now? C'mon.........
  #220  
Old 19 June 2017, 16:50
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
And for the record, yes -- my culture IS BETTER than theirs. Shall we go down the litany of things that make it so? Call me a cultural relativist, but our Western Civilization culture IS better than theirs. And people talking about how they love the local spicy food ethnic cuisine as being the the reason for displacing ours with theirs is utter nonsense. Nonsense bordering on my 'treason/subverstion/sedtition' nerve.
Ugh. That is the exact opposite of what "cultural relativism" means.


I still believe that we are better than them, and thus we do not have to resort to their tactics in order to survive. It's not a binary choice between "working things out peacefully" (which I agree ain't going to happen) and "Joe and Nigel need to go all IRA on their asses."

I just can't see any way in which tit-for-tat terrorism (or, if you prefer, revenge attacks ... a distinction without a difference to my mind) is a fucking winning strategy for our side. It's a desperate last gasp of a culture completely devoid of ideas or options. Is that really where we're at?
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"If you don't like freedom, for heaven's sake, pack your bags and leave"
- Rotterdam Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb
"I appeal to all our citizens, no matter from what land their forefathers came, to keep this ever in mind, and to shun with scorn and contempt the sinister intriguers and mischief-makers who would seek to divide them along lines of creed, or birthplace or of national origin."
- Teddy Roosevelt
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