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  #1  
Old 13 September 2012, 13:04
Maverickf'dup Maverickf'dup is offline
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Leg harness advice

Gents,

Pardon the intrusion, but I figured I'd ask the experts. Any advice for a fixed wing puke on a good leg harness that would work with a standard flight suit (one piece). I figure that worst case I could wear a riggers belt and a COTS leg harness, but would like to avoid the shoulder harness. Any suggestions would be welcome.

I don't shoot enough to want to deal with a cross body draw if I actually need my gun. I've got what I've got for flying, my concern is walking around base when a local decides to make a play for his 72 virgins.
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  #2  
Old 13 September 2012, 13:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickf'dup
I don't shoot enough to want to deal with a cross body draw if I actually need my gun. I've got what I've got for flying, my concern is walking around base when a local decides to make a play for his 72 virgins.
Why do you find the shoulder holster to be a problem? What do you find about a cross-body draw to be a problem? If you are walking around and simply want a gun while doing that walking -- certainly a hip holster or a thigh holster can work.

It is important to remember that a holster is nothing more than something that holds the gun safely and securely, enabling you to bring that gun to the fight (or have the gun with you if the fight comes to you). As such, you can pretty much imagine that there are SCORES of holster options that will enable you to do just that. Each one of those options has it's own pros/cons -- if you don't have lots of experience getting your gun out of the holster, don't focus on that as the most important issue. Instead, focus on being aware of a problem far enough in advance that you can get your gun in your hand before the problem gets too far advanced.

The neat thing is that you'll likely have plenty of time to pull your gun. Knowing what to do with it once it is in your hand is the real trick....
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Old 13 September 2012, 13:33
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KW Driver KW Driver is offline
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if you don't want to run a shoulder holster, then the rigger's belt/paddle holster is probably the best bet for you.

I'm rotary, but ran a bat belt and armor combo. I was wearing two pieces, and the paddle went on my primary belt out of the bird. onto the bat belt, top tucked into my pants in the cockpit. I left it on my right hip, at the 3 o'clock, and coud draw, and stay off all the controls with it when flying. I had issues with other guys wearing drop holsters in the left seat, and inhibiting my collective control from the right seat. but that's in a 58, where we constantly rub shoulders/bump arms.

test drive your system to fly and walk if you're going to run a belt set up.
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Old 13 September 2012, 13:40
Maverickf'dup Maverickf'dup is offline
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I've found that the lack of a belt with a flight suit doesn't give the shoulder holster any resistance when you pull, unless you are holding it with your off hand. Whenever I've been able to get out to the range, I've always shot with a belt holster, and find the body mechanics easier than reaching into my own arm pit. I'm not a fan of the sig aircrew shoulder holsters that point the barrel parrallel to the deck, as it results in pointing a barrel at anyone walking behind you. When an ANA dude goes loud because he sees bacon in the DFAC, I'd like to be able to get to cover or concealment with a gun in my hand with a minimum amount of flail time.
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Old 13 September 2012, 13:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickf'dup
I've found that the lack of a belt with a flight suit doesn't give the shoulder holster any resistance when you pull, unless you are holding it with your off hand.
You might invest in a better shoulder holster that allows your gun to come out without having to assist it, or simply recognize your holster's deficiencies and incorporate them into your draw stroke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickf'dup
Whenever I've been able to get out to the range, I've always shot with a belt holster, and find the body mechanics easier than reaching into my own arm pit.
I agree. You might consider getting a fanny pack -- if that is allowed to be worn with a flight suit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickf'dup
I'm not a fan of the sig aircrew shoulder holsters that point the barrel parrallel to the deck, as it results in pointing a barrel at anyone walking behind you.
If your holster is well-designed and your finger is off the trigger, this worry is unwarranted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickf'dup
When an ANA dude goes loud because he sees bacon in the DFAC, I'd like to be able to get to cover or concealment with a gun in my hand with a minimum amount of flail time.
And again, if said situation were to unfold -- unless you are standing there with the ANA dude, you will likely have plenty of time to fill your hand and find cover/concealment, regardless of your holster selection....
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Old 13 September 2012, 18:06
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As you have figured out, a belt holster with a one piece flight suit sucks. I'd just get a shoulder holster from a reputable company which will allow you to carry the gun and a couple of magazines to offset the weight on the other side. Ensure the trigger is completely covered by whatever holster you get.

Belt holsters are superior for a faster draw but they suck with nothing anchoring them down. I'd never voluntarily attach something to my leg like a thigh holster for what you want to do. The simple solution is the most obvious in this case and it's probably the least compromise if you get something decent and train with it.
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Old 13 September 2012, 18:54
Oldguy Oldguy is offline
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I know you are thinking belt holster and I haven't flown for a long time. but this might be an option. It shouldn't be in the way when you are flying, you can run with it and it has some space for odds and ends you might like to carry.
http://hillpeoplegear.com/Products/tabid/762/ctl/ProductDetails/mid/1916/ProductID/35/Default.aspx
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Old 13 September 2012, 20:04
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ANy of the fanny pack, chest pack, etc type rigs would not be cool for use on the super FOB's if you are mixing about with the general population. I've seen to many hassles at chow halls over those. If you don't have those concerns a fanny pack or the HPG bag might actually work well.
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Old 13 September 2012, 20:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Fix
ANy of the fanny pack, chest pack, etc type rigs would not be cool for use on the super FOB's if you are mixing about with the general population. I've seen to many hassles at chow halls over those....
I never understood those policies. I'm a gringo -- and I can carry a gun, inside a chowhall or PX or gym, but I can't have a backpack or other pack. Are the brains of pogues made of mush????
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Old 13 September 2012, 20:59
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Perhaps a Survival Sheath Chest rig?
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  #11  
Old 13 September 2012, 21:41
Chemical Cookie Chemical Cookie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
I never understood those policies. I'm a gringo -- and I can carry a gun, inside a chowhall or PX or gym, but I can't have a backpack or other pack. Are the brains of pogues made of mush????
HEY, they have to protect everyone inside the chow hall ya know...

Had a Ugandan go round and round with me in Iraq because my M9 had a ---GASP--- magazine in the, well you know, where magazines with bullets go for a pistol to operate. Sad to say I lost that argument...

Then there was the time a LTC and CSM gave me hell for walking around in civy's with a M9 oh, "fire.."
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  #12  
Old 14 September 2012, 11:54
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Im not a military pilot, but Ive got several years walking around in a flight suit with a pistol.
I would say stay away from the thigh rigs. Even when I wore one I still wore is pretty high up on my leg. Even in the military I always stayed away from them. They suck ass when you run. Your gun ends up behind your thigh in a flight suit because there is nothing to secure your belt to your waist. As you walk you may find that it will ride up and you keep pulling your pant legs down because you end up looking like you have high waters on the leg your gun is strapped to. After 5 years of flying both fixed wing and helicopters in LE, I went back to the regular nylon duty belt for outside the aircraft. Running, climbing fences, backing up guys on the street who get into something when Im off-airport. It works well with a flight suit and everything stays pretty firm and secured. Thigh rigs are to hard to control if you get in a fight with someone. They dont even have to get it out of your holster to have control of you gun. When we fly we actually wear the Army Air Warrior System from Aerial Machine and Tool so thats already set up on the vest.
Whats nice too about the duty belt is that if your in a secure area, you can just pop it off and lay it on the desk. If something happens it takes 2 seconds to put it on and run, even if its on sideways you at least have all of your toys! I dont know if you in a position for immediate quick draw scenarios, I imagine anyone could be, but that isnt going to happen in a shoulder rig. There is nothing tactical about putting stuff under your arm pits. I tried a shoulder rig for about a year and it was to unnatural. I even made a serious effort to train with it. Now it sits in a box in my closet! Whats nice about the duty belt is you have a lot more room to carry extra mags or anything else you might need. I carry 5 mags across the front. But we are a single stack .45 though.
In an M9 that would be a lot of bullets. But at least you could do it. Because I imagine this is going to be the only weapon you are carrying correct? Do you walk around with a rifle? You could carry a spare rifle magazine on your belt as well with no problem at all. I still believe a hip holster on a belt is the best all around set up. The body seems to have been designed to carry on the hip!

SOTB's #2 Post is good. Ultimately you just need to decide its purpose. If its more of a transport method just so you have it with you, vs contacting people and you need it a milli-second ago. Your carrying a pistol.... so your behind the power curve already!

However, if you decide on a shoulder rig, and want something youll pass down to your grandson, this is where I got mine. The guy will literally make anything you ask for.
http://www.bhlstore.com/
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Last edited by Flying Pig; 14 September 2012 at 12:04.
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  #13  
Old 14 September 2012, 12:13
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I think FP's suggestion of a simple duty belt is the best of all. Easy on/easy off -- carries everything you need, and depending upon what you are carrying -- it shouldn't move around too much.

Plus it comes in cool colors -- especially black!!!!
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Old 14 September 2012, 12:25
Hostile0311 Hostile0311 is offline
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Been my experience that while it looks cool, a drop leg is useless inside any vehicle whether it rolls or flies. They are a snag magnet. Personally, I'd go with a chest type rig harness that allows a cross draw if you don't want a traditional shoulder rig. I think someone already mentioned the Survival Sheath System above. If it was me I'd go that route. A riggers belt on a one piece flight suit looks gay. Functional, but gay. Kinda like tube socks with sandals.
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Old 14 September 2012, 12:38
Maverickf'dup Maverickf'dup is offline
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Gents,

I appreciate all of the responses. As I've realized the old riggers belt would quickly travel down to mid-thigh due to my narrow ass, I'll take a look at some of the items mentioned.
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Old 14 September 2012, 12:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hostile0311
Been my experience that while it looks cool, a drop leg is useless inside any vehicle....
I literally hate drop-leg holsters. I'll wear them, in specific scenarios, but I take that shit off as soon as I can....
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Old 14 September 2012, 12:59
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Survival Sheath chest rig.....butt canted down version.
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Old 14 September 2012, 13:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
I literally hate drop-leg holsters. I'll wear them, in specific scenarios, but I take that shit off as soon as I can....


I hated them as well until a member here showed me how to take some medic shears and do some customizing that allowed me to remove the top leg strap, shorten the belt strap and basically get it to where it is just a few inches lower than a waist holster. Stays put when I run now and is at a perfect draw height. Loved my 6004 ever since. It was one of those "Why didnt I think of that?" moments.
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I was born my papa's son
When I hit the ground I was on the run
I had one glad hand and the other behind
You can have yours, just give me mine
When the hound dog barkin' in the black of the night
Stick my hand in my pocket, everything's all right

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  #19  
Old 14 September 2012, 13:07
Hostile0311 Hostile0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
I literally hate drop-leg holsters. I'll wear them, in specific scenarios, but I take that shit off as soon as I can....
Me too dude. I hate anything "drop leg". It sure looks cool but damn if it ain't a bitch when you try to run. The only halfway decent drop rig I'll wear is the Safariland that has the the Kydex Thigh piece which attempts to keep it in place.
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Old 14 September 2012, 13:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky
....It was one of those "Why didnt I think of that?" moments.
Right on -- about 5-7 years ago, at a place outside of Bragg, habitated by people who work in a place that has a tudor feel to it, someone showed me the same thing. I admit that it is way better than what I used to do -- but I've also never had reason or opportunity to walk around with it for long dsitances. Dude, I'm a civvie -- my worries are more aligned with getting my Dockers closed with my increased girth, than if a holster works....
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