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  #241  
Old 14 February 2019, 14:55
Saw7616 Saw7616 is offline
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Originally Posted by Devildoc View Post
In local media there was a snap poll, asking if, now that Amazon is pulling out of NY, NC should try again to recruit them, the response was 95% no to 5% yes. Most people in NC rejoiced when Amazon dropped NC from their list.
Most of us normal people that remain in Charlotte Certainly did.
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  #242  
Old 14 February 2019, 14:57
Gsniper Gsniper is offline
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normal people that remain in Charlotte Certainly did
Both of ya?
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  #243  
Old 15 February 2019, 08:11
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Sigi Sigi is offline
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Originally Posted by Streck-Fu View Post
NY Governor: Florida, with their low taxes, are stealing our tax paying citizens.

AOC: Hold my spritzer.
Crazy thing is the taxes.

NY $178B budget, 19M+ people
FL $89B budget, 21M+ people

NY has twice the budget and less people. I realize there is more to it than just population but twice the budget? That is a condition of poor policies.
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  #244  
Old 15 February 2019, 11:23
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CTA CTA is offline
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Originally Posted by Sigi View Post
Crazy thing is the taxes.

NY $178B budget, 19M+ people
FL $89B budget, 21M+ people

NY has twice the budget and less people. I realize there is more to it than just population but twice the budget? That is a condition of poor policies.
And here in FL we have no state income tax either. I love it that Sandy Occasional-Cortex has helped chase away Amazon. Her party elders are drawing out their long knives. Schumer, de Blasio, and Cuomo are not happy campers right now. She’s might be booksmart but she’s not that bright.

“As Marc Thiessen first noted, Sandy apparently thinks there was three billion dollars in a bank that was given to Amazon, so it is available to be used elsewhere on all the goodies she mentions. But of course, the three billion was merely a rebate on taxes that otherwise would have been paid by Amazon over a period of years. With no deal, there will be no such tax payments. Not the three billion, nor any of the taxes above that amount that Amazon would have been paying.”

Source: American Thinker
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  #245  
Old 15 February 2019, 11:39
Devildoc Devildoc is offline
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And here in FL we have no state income tax either. I love it that Sandy Occasional-Cortex has helped chase away Amazon. Her party elders are drawing out their long knives. Schumer, de Blasio, and Cuomo are not happy campers right now. She’s might be booksmart but she’s not that bright.

“As Marc Thiessen first noted, Sandy apparently thinks there was three billion dollars in a bank that was given to Amazon, so it is available to be used elsewhere on all the goodies she mentions. But of course, the three billion was merely a rebate on taxes that otherwise would have been paid by Amazon over a period of years. With no deal, there will be no such tax payments. Not the three billion, nor any of the taxes above that amount that Amazon would have been paying.”

Source: American Thinker
I have 12 hours of economics; 6 of them in grad school. I have no clue how, with a freaking degree in economics, she simply doesn't understand what she is saying, or the questions being asked of her. I had the bare minimum and can frame arguments in economics that will shred her diarrhea of the mouth.

I think she is neither book smart or smart in any other sense of the word.
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  #246  
Old 15 February 2019, 11:46
Gsniper Gsniper is offline
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Somebody school me on this, my education is limited.

So, the rub is NY offered a bunch of tax breaks, say a million to keep the math easy. So, instead of 2 mil, amazon pays 1 mil. So instead of 1mil, NY gets zero? And this is somehow a win? I'm not being a smartass, I don't get it. One of you smart guys explain it for me.
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  #247  
Old 15 February 2019, 11:48
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Streck-Fu Streck-Fu is offline
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Originally Posted by Devildoc View Post
I have 12 hours of economics; 6 of them in grad school. I have no clue how, with a freaking degree in economics, she simply doesn't understand what she is saying, or the questions being asked of her. I had the bare minimum and can frame arguments in economics that will shred her diarrhea of the mouth.

I think she is neither book smart or smart in any other sense of the word.
She is an ideologue first. Economist, nah....
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  #248  
Old 15 February 2019, 12:22
Devildoc Devildoc is offline
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She is an ideologue first. Economist, nah....
First, second, and third....

Yeah, ideologue, I get it. When I talk economics I like to use arguments against deficit spending, pro-supply-side economics, Friedman economics, so from that point, I can intelligently discuss economics as it relates to conservatism. But she can't seem to put three words together that makes any sense. She can't even use big words to support her stupid ideas....
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  #249  
Old 15 February 2019, 12:27
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Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
Somebody school me on this, my education is limited.

So, the rub is NY offered a bunch of tax breaks, say a million to keep the math easy. So, instead of 2 mil, amazon pays 1 mil. So instead of 1mil, NY gets zero? And this is somehow a win? I'm not being a smartass, I don't get it. One of you smart guys explain it for me.
Sounds to me like you understand it... something is better than nothing.
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  #250  
Old 15 February 2019, 12:32
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Sigi Sigi is offline
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Amazon employs 566,000 employees worldwide, and those numbers were a 66% jump from 2017 to 2018.

So:

Jobs
Amazon 566,000
Cortez -25,000

I sure hope she finds that $3B she saved New York.
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  #251  
Old 15 February 2019, 13:24
SteveEx SteveEx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
Somebody school me on this, my education is limited.

So, the rub is NY offered a bunch of tax breaks, say a million to keep the math easy. So, instead of 2 mil, amazon pays 1 mil. So instead of 1mil, NY gets zero? And this is somehow a win? I'm not being a smartass, I don't get it. One of you smart guys explain it for me.
Many people forget that there are always costs for the state and local governments when a large employer moves in large amounts of jobs. Large numbers of jobs mean large numbers of additional people.

Amazon would not be paying for the needed upgrades in infrastructure or adding school capacity or any of the other costs. The local and state government's tax payers will be. Nor is the number of jobs a guarantee but you can bet that the dollar amount of tax rebates were nailed down to the penny... Quite simply corporations often over promise and under deliver in these sorts of deals but they still get paid off.

As for the NY locals objections well local people should get to decide what their community is like and apparently they didn't want Amazon. Good for them. I guess it is not like it hurts me any.

Personally I always felt that Amazon was more fishing for tax payer $ than looking for a good place to put a new office. Seriously NY? One of the most expensive places to live and work in the world is where they pick to put a headquarters? This makes business sense how exactly?
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  #252  
Old 15 February 2019, 13:27
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Mingo Kane Mingo Kane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigi View Post
Amazon employs 566,000 employees worldwide, and those numbers were a 66% jump from 2017 to 2018.

So:

Jobs
Amazon 566,000
Cortez -25,000

I sure hope she finds that $3B she saved New York.
She had a 4% voter turn out to get elected...all she has to do is give 5% of her voters free shit, and she'll be reelected forever. Think bigger than this and you're magically Governor of California.
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  #253  
Old 15 February 2019, 13:59
Steve83 Steve83 is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveEx View Post
Many people forget that there are always costs for the state and local governments when a large employer moves in large amounts of jobs. Large numbers of jobs mean large numbers of additional people.

Amazon would not be paying for the needed upgrades in infrastructure or adding school capacity or any of the other costs. The local and state government's tax payers will be. Nor is the number of jobs a guarantee but you can bet that the dollar amount of tax rebates were nailed down to the penny... Quite simply corporations often over promise and under deliver in these sorts of deals but they still get paid off.
I think this is more true in Wisconsin with Foxcon than it is with Amazon in NYC.

From what I heard from Tim Pool reporting on this was that the tax break incentives was to off-set the costs of working with the unions as well as other local technicalities.

Further, a large portion of the money generated from other relative expenses (State, Local and other taxes) was supposed to go to the MTA.

Personally, I don't like when governments pick winners and losers. In this case, unless you give ALL business a tax break, you shouldn't give Amazon one.
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  #254  
Old 15 February 2019, 15:23
SteveEx SteveEx is offline
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I think this is more true in Wisconsin with Foxcon than it is with Amazon in NYC.

From what I heard from Tim Pool reporting on this was that the tax break incentives was to off-set the costs of working with the unions as well as other local technicalities.

Further, a large portion of the money generated from other relative expenses (State, Local and other taxes) was supposed to go to the MTA.

Personally, I don't like when governments pick winners and losers. In this case, unless you give ALL business a tax break, you shouldn't give Amazon one.
Well I agree that the government shouldn't give special breaks to companies to move to a location. Some targeted tax breaks make some sense depending on what you are trying to do but are damned hard to get right. A blanket all or nothing might be the way to go at least it is simple to administer.

As for just being Foxcon ummm yeah I doubt that Amazon would have really ponied up the number of jobs they said they would. I could be wrong but most of these types of deals the governments get screwed. Perhaps not as bad as when they buy billionaires sport stadiums but they do get screwed.

Oh and I understand that a lot of the local complaints is that there was no guarantee that any of those jobs that did come would be for locals. That being said not sure governments should be in the business of saying where you can hire talent from as long as they are legally in the country. Still I can see why it would piss off a local facing a higher cost of living in NY...
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  #255  
Old 15 February 2019, 15:25
Janitor Janitor is offline
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Originally Posted by Devildoc View Post
I have 12 hours of economics; 6 of them in grad school. I have no clue how, with a freaking degree in economics, she simply doesn't understand what she is saying, or the questions being asked of her. I had the bare minimum and can frame arguments in economics that will shred her diarrhea of the mouth.
There were lots of guys in the Soviet Union with degrees in economics, too.

She graduated from B.U. with a B.A. in "international relations and economics". That means she majored in IR and took a few econ electives. A "real" economics degree is a B.S., IMO. A B.A. degree gets you theory; a B.S. gets you to the hard math and science behind econ. Put more simply, a B.A. in econ thinks socialism works because its a nice theory, but a B.S. in econ knows the math proves that it doesn't work.
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  #256  
Old 16 February 2019, 11:11
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EchoFiveMike EchoFiveMike is offline
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You know, there's more to a community than just the shekels business brings...

Taking anything "big business" says at face value is stupid, criminally stupid. Yes, Amazon may bring $$ to a community, they also may(will) radically change that community in ways that suck for the people who used to live there.

Example, Elwood IL. They made a deal with the devil for a big intermodal facility. It'll bring jobs, they said. It'll spur the economy, they said. All it costs is tax breaks and free infrastructure, they said.

Elwood is now a dystopian industrial shithole like something from Blade Runner. Trucks crush the roads and make traffic a nightmare. The "jobs" are crap manual labor, and done by third worlders and the dregs of society. It's slavery with a fucking paystub to add insult to injury. They got played. Were this a war movie, the ending would be where you called the ARCLIGHT on your own position. S/F....Ken M
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  #257  
Old 16 February 2019, 11:28
Devildoc Devildoc is offline
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Originally Posted by EchoFiveMike View Post
You know, there's more to a community than just the shekels business brings...

Taking anything "big business" says at face value is stupid, criminally stupid. Yes, Amazon may bring $$ to a community, they also may(will) radically change that community in ways that suck for the people who used to live there.

Example, Elwood IL. They made a deal with the devil for a big intermodal facility. It'll bring jobs, they said. It'll spur the economy, they said. All it costs is tax breaks and free infrastructure, they said.

Elwood is now a dystopian industrial shithole like something from Blade Runner. Trucks crush the roads and make traffic a nightmare. The "jobs" are crap manual labor, and done by third worlders and the dregs of society. It's slavery with a fucking paystub to add insult to injury. They got played. Were this a war movie, the ending would be where you called the ARCLIGHT on your own position. S/F....Ken M
Agreed. When North Carolina was courting Amazon, the areas they were thinking about, we are already good with economic progress. It's one of the fastest growing areas of the country for iT and high-tech, the locals do not want it, and we have the luxury, honestly, of picking and choosing.

Some areas of the country, it might be the only game in town, and those places will sell their soul to lure a business like Amazon, only to be crapped on.
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  #258  
Old 16 February 2019, 15:49
Rockville Rockville is offline
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Community organizing and passing out flyers about the next mass mobilization is more important than jobs Amazon will bring???!!!! Socialism live....
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