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  #101  
Old 30 January 2008, 17:19
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Too many people that I have too much respect indicate that Haney's book is more fucked up than my two or three wives. That's good enough for me. I moved the book from non-fiction to science fiction a LONG damn time ago....
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  #102  
Old 15 February 2008, 17:35
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I found that too on Amazon :

Quote:
By Dianna Haney
I am Eric Haney's wife. I put my name and bias on the table. If only that were the case with those retired Delta men.

For the record, it should be noted that the only legitimate dispute those men have with the book (all others being verifiable with research) is whether or not Logan Fitch was punched in the nose at Desert One. Fitch says not; that he would have killed any civilian who did that -- despite orders from President Carter not to harm civilians.

In Mark Bowden's book, "Guests of the Ayatollah," Fitch explains the bloody nose he was sporting that night like this: He was attempting to make an Iranian civilian outside the bus stand up. The man refused, so Fitch fired a shot into the ground. When the man stood up and made a move as if to run, Fitch swung his weapon at the man to clobber him with its butt and in the process, raked his own nose with his own gun sight.

Oh. Well.

Haney wrote that the nose punch happened, in the context of a highly complimentary sentence about Fitch's "leading from the front" (rare for a Delta officer). I've heard that story from other Desert One veterans. Be that as it may, Fitch remembers it differently. But Fitch doesn't dispute Haney's crediting him for saving his life that night by pulling him on board the last C-130 leaving the ground. The other commanders -- including Bucky Burruss -- left on the first plane out, before they knew for sure who was alive or dead from B. Squadron.

There are a number of good books, both academic and personal, on the subject of Desert One. Beckwith's Delta Force; Kyle's The Guts to Try; Bill Daugherty's (CIA hostage in Iran); and now Mark Bowden's.

Neither Beckwith, Kyle, nor Fitch were called traitor for writing their books and articles on Desert One. Fitch's article in Penthouse was merciless on Col. Beckwith. Warranted or not, it had to be heartbreaking for the Colonel at the time.

Nor was Bucky Burruss called a traitor for his chock-full-of-opsec fiction published in 1990, "Mission for Delta." Any person wanting to know how Delta sets up satellite commo or infiltrates a nation or conducts covert snatch ops need only read that book. Interestingly, the main plot of Burruss' book centers around the very mission he has accused Haney of fabricating and denied ever took place: A 1983 CIA sanctioned covert op into Honduras to take out an American Green Beret turned defector. In Burruss' book, the defector/guerilla leader trained at Bragg and was a former friend of the tall, blond, Delta team leader who volunteers for the mission to take him out. Even some of the key names are the same.

Back to Desert One.

Each book on the subject agrees, even Beckwith's, that there was heated discussion about the possibility that the helo pilots didn't have the fortitude to go forward. Beckwith admitted in his book "maybe" having called them cowards that night (p. 313). He also used the term towards B Squadron, for not bringing their weapons out of the inferno. To his credit, Beckwith admitted in his book that he was wrong on all counts, helo and B Squadron, and apologized. For a man like Beckwith, that was an enormous thing. Others should be so gracious.

One smart thing that came out of that tragedy was the realization that Delta needed its own specially trained, specially equipped helo team. The helos DID fail because of the sandstorms and had Beckwith insisted on taking the mission forward, he would have killed the men he had worked so hard to find. Some commanders might have done that anyway. Not Beckwith. God bless him for that. My husband would never have come home.

Another result was the understanding that had B Squadron burned to death, the institutional knowledge they had created would have died with them. So Delta began codifying what they created and learned. Eric Haney was among the original operators who helped create that body of knowledge. It was not handed down to Delta from previous generations in the Army, as is so much else in the military. It was, for the most part, a completely new world explored and developed by those men.

Delta was founded only by Charlie Beckwith and midwifed by the small group of men around him, including Bucky Burruss. Burruss authored a paper justifying to DOD why it would take at least two years to select enough men to bring Delta to operational strength.

One reason it took that long was the kibosh put on recruting from the Rangers by commanders protecting their best men. Beckwith had to fight tooth and nail up the chain of command to get access to the Rangers. (This is from Beckwith's book.) And even after he got formal cooperation, commanders such as Joe Stringham, by then with the Rangers, issued the unofficial dictum that if his soldiers tried out and failed, they would not be welcome back. For many potential candidates, that was a showstopper. Haney took the chance and succeeded. That's Stringham's mad-on with Haney right there. Had Stringham not interceded, Haney and others could have entered Delta selection in April of 78 instead of in September of 78.

Interesting history. When you put Beckwith's book next to Haney's, a more vivid picture of Delta Force comes together. With Beckwith, you get the 100,000 foot perspective of the political infighting in the Army and just how bitterly some factions in the Army truly wanted Delta to fail. You see just how hard Beckwith really had to work to pull the whole thing off and how many people stood against it.

And then with Haney's, you get a personal view of one man's journey through selection and training and the development of strategy and tactics and his love for his comrades. You also see why Haney said that "no other man in the Army" could have done what Charlie Beckwith did in founding Delta Force.

What you do not get from Haney's book is any sense of sniping, jealousy, bitterness, or chest beating. IDF is very much a tribute to comradeship.

We have seen the other side of that story, sadly, from others in Delta.

When writing a personal memoir, one does not have to read the history of others. Desert One is both literally and figuratively burned into Eric Haney's memory. He still carries the scars of that night in the desert on his body. Burns that could have killed him as that inferno did kill other brave men. Haney's book is the first book or article to mention the names of the men who died that night. Beckwith's book didn't. And although Fitch's article was titled, "Death at Desert One," his article didn't mention the names of the dead, either.

When Beckwith wrote his book, he had access to Delta's files. I suppose because his book was more historical in nature. Eric's is personal and that is what makes it such a refreshing perspective. It isn't about HIM, though.

Eric loved some of his comrades and respected all of them. Even the ones who have given him a hard time. Living and dying together in Delta Force creates a bond that spans time, no matter what. That's what we see in his book. That's what the book is truly about.

Thanks again to Logan Fitch. Not for the nose punch debate. For saving Eric's life.
http://www.amazon.com/review/RUY1841ISNWJA
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  #103  
Old 3 April 2008, 22:54
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Got this book second hand from another comrade while in Poland. I've spent many years at Bragg and knew most of the places Haney wrote about. I spent many days around the SF farmhouse after chasing the plebs around the woods from the air in Hueys. Ace will remember that. - Good book! I’ve got nothing but respect for those guys!
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  #104  
Old 1 February 2019, 10:20
Sakura no hana Sakura no hana is offline
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Interesting if somewhat older thread.

David Arturo Baez Cruz, aka "KeeKee Saenz" in Mr. Haney's book, was a naturalized USCIT having been born in Nicaragua and being sent to the US by his mother to live with his grandmother in his teens.

He enlisted in the US Army in the late 1960s and attended/successfully passed SFQC. After this enlistment he got out, spent a few years bumming around the States, then re-enlisted in 1974. He was assigned to 3/7th SFGA then at Fort Gulick, Panama.

In 1981, he willfully defected to the Sandinistas after obtaining an early out. His family had long expressed anti-Somoza sentiments to include his father, LT Adolfo Baez Bone, being executed along with 20-plus others after a failed coup attempt in April 1954 (President Somoza Garcia).

Baez Cruz was welcomed by the Sandinista Popular Army (EPS) and was commissioned at a LT. He trained the first EPS paratoop unit that year, relying on his training and experience while assigned to ODA 5, the ABN training team at the time, at Fort Sherman, Panama.

Mr. Haney's account of killing Baez Cruz has been challenged by more than a few of his former DELTA brothers and commanders. To include Bucky Burruss and Haney's Troop and then Squadron Commander (1981-1984). Mr. Haney no longer comments on that chapter of his book.

Operation Patuca River was a Honduran counter-guerrilla op. Planned and executed by the Honduran Special Forces Squadron with support from Honduran conventional units. The US provided logistical support to include radio intercept and Blackhawk airframes. Exercise "Tall Pines II" was used to mask this assistance.

Patuca River was roughly 2 months in duration with 23 Honduran guerrillas defecting from the 96 strong column and providing key information to the Honduran military intelligence battalion, MIB 316, which allowed for the ultimate destruction of the PRTC-Honduras incursion.

Contrary to Mr. Haney's account of all the guerrillas, to include Baez Cruz, being killed as he described, roughly 36 were captured in mid-September (the entire 3rd PLT of the column) to include Dr. Jose Reyes Mata (the column commander/leader), Padre James Carney (guerrilla priest and USCIT), and Baez Cruz (bodyguard to Reyes Mata and one of two NIC military advisers to the column).

Although Mr. Haney identified "KeeKee Saenz" as being a captain in the EPS when he offers finding an EPS ID card with his rank and name, in fact "KeeKee Saenz"/Baez Cruz had been promoted to major, or commadante in 1983. Also, all those in the column were wearing Contra uniforms and carrying US weaponry (M16s, .45s, M79s, M60s) as they were trusting to blend in with the Contra presence on the Honduran side of the border.

Baez Cruz, whose last team assignment at 3/7 was with the "longhair team), or AST, would have known to travel "sterile" with respect to any form of identification that would show him to be a Sandinista officer advising a hostile force in Honduras - and indeed he used his father's first name in an agreement with his family in NIC as a code should reports of a guerrilla named "Adolfo" be captured or killed.

To date, the remains of Baez Cruz, Padre Carney, and Reyes Mata have yet to be found.
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  #105  
Old 1 February 2019, 10:48
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Welcome sir, you're gonna be a gem to have around.
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  #106  
Old 1 February 2019, 12:25
Sakura no hana Sakura no hana is offline
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Postscript -

In 2004, the Monument to the Heroes was erected in Managua. It lists the dead or missing from the compromised April 4, 1954 coup attempt. Among those listed is Adolfo Baez Bone and his brother, Luis, David Baez's uncle.

David Baez was just three years old when his father and uncle were executed. Their bodies along with the oithers were first burned and then buried in an unmarked mass grave. The Baez family was told by the Somoza government that Adolfo Baez, then a LT in the National Guard, had been killed in combat on the border with Costa Rica...body not recoverable.

However the mass grave was discovered and the burned corpse of Adolfo was identified and returned to the family by friends.

That said, respected Miami Herald journalist Juan O. Tamayo wrote a deeply researched story about Baez Cruz titled "The Mystery of a Special Forces Sergeant (SOFMAG November 2009). Several retired SF brothers who knew Baez in Panama were quoted in it as well as Eduardo Baez, David's brother.

In reading Ms. Haney's Amazon response as re-posted on this thread, she notes Mr. Haney was writing his memoir and because it was/is a memoir "...one does not have to read the history of others." In short, Mr. Haney didn't do any research - he simply wrote from memory.

Memoirs to be taken seriously are researched and sources provided in the book. Memoirs that are not researched are better called "war stories" with all the term implies.

Had Mr. Haney refreshed his memory he would have discovered the Patuca River operation was being followed by the Honduran and US media beginning in August 1983. From that date up to the publication of Haney's book (Copywrite 2002) there were multiple stories and US FOIA results published/made available. For example, the 1997 250+ CIA report which although heavily redacted provides hard information that disputes Haney's description of the operation as well as specific details such as who was indeed "the leader".

In 1984, after Baez Cruz's mother went public as she was trying to discover where the remains of her son might be in Honduras, then Consul General for the US Embassy in Honduras, Robert L. Fretz, sent her a letter of condolence (August 2, 1984). Fretz offered his "...profound pain upon hearing of the death of your son David Arturo Baez, a north american."

This was the first official confirmation by USGOV that Baez Cruz was indeed killed in Honduras and was a USCIT. Fretz then recommended Sra. Lilliam Cruz de Arguello obtain a NIC death certificate so the US Embassy in Hondo could then issue a US death certificate.

The Baez family in NIC petitioned the Sandinista EPS for such a certificate. For some time their inquiry went unanswered but on May 30, 1985, the EPS relented. Signed by "Jefe Direccion De Cuadros E.P.S. Capitan Marisol Castillo, the certificate acknowledged "We hereby state that Comrade David Baez, belonged to our glorious Sandinista Popular Army, and that he fell in compliance with his duty...".

The document was referred to and explained by Eduardo Baez, himself a former Sandinista officer, in his interview with Roberto Fonseca (La Prensa Nicaragua) on August 30, 2001.

Ten months before Mr. Haney's book and clearly un-researched account of Baez's death was published in hardback.

As for the actual leader of the FAP/PRTC-Honduras column - which was not Major David Baez but rather Major Jose Reyes Mata ("Comandante Pablo Mendoza") - the Honduran press released the story of his being killed along with photos of his body in late September 1983. The Washington Post followed suit in November 1983 with an extensive article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.e45fce90001d

It would appear it pays to do your homework when you write your "memoir".
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  #107  
Old 1 February 2019, 12:58
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Maybe its just me, but it certainly seems that your reason for joining us is to resurrect this necrothread as a jumping off point to discuss Baez. What's your interest/connection?
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  #108  
Old 1 February 2019, 13:38
Sakura no hana Sakura no hana is offline
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You would be correct, Sir. It is just you.
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  #109  
Old 1 February 2019, 14:09
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakura no hana View Post
You would be correct, Sir. It is just you.
Sarcasm doesn't go over too well around here until people get a feel for you. Please feel free to communicate normally with members who have done quite a bit with their simple lives.
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  #110  
Old 1 February 2019, 14:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakura no hana View Post
You would be correct, Sir. It is just you.
Actually it isn't just him that's curious.

Answer his question please.
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  #111  
Old 1 February 2019, 14:44
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Cherry blossom is an interesting user name.
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  #112  
Old 1 February 2019, 15:06
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Maybe Cherry Blossom is David........
Stranger things have happened here at SOCNET.
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  #113  
Old 1 February 2019, 20:05
Sakura no hana Sakura no hana is offline
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I apologize, Gentlemen. I was not being sarcastic. Just answering the question in straight forward manner.

Have been off of social media across the board for about two years now. SOCNET seemed like a good choice to re-enter in just one venue given the venue.

Have just re-read Mr. Haney's book after many years and having served in 3/7 the year after Dave Baez defected, and heard first hand accounts about him then, and then again in 83 after he was confirmed captured/killed by our AST, among others, I looked to see if there was a thread on him.

And upon finding it added my two cents' worth as a former 3/7 guy and at now 65 and retired, a military historian to some degree.

I also posted on several other threads to include the one on hearing loss. The Baez one just happened to be where I started first.

Mr. Haney's recollection of that event is inaccurate and as such confuses the actual history. Nothing is "necro" in history. It is constantly under study and added to/corrected.

Especially the history of Special Forces, in this case.

That said, Sakura no hana indeed translates as Cherry Blossom. In ancient Japan the Samurai class held the Sakura in great favor - this link explains why better than I can -

https://jiujitsu.org.nz/articles/sakura-and-bushido

In another sense the Sakura no hana falls from the tree at the height of its growth/perfection. Much as the Samurai believed they would fall in battle and be so remembered by their Lord, their fellow Samurai, and their families.

Sakura sends.
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  #114  
Old 1 February 2019, 20:19
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Sakura check your PMs.
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  #115  
Old 1 February 2019, 21:09
Sakura no hana Sakura no hana is offline
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A more modern application of the term "Sakura" is found at Ronin Tactics.

https://www.ronintactics.com/media--press.html

To include an edged weapon design/product made by Spartan Knives.

https://www.ronintactics.com/store/p...%22_Blade.html

Great folks at Ronin.
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  #116  
Old 1 February 2019, 21:18
Sakura no hana Sakura no hana is offline
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Baez Group Affiliations -

For the historical record - Baez Cruz served in 8th Group roughly end of 1970 until it was deactivated. He took a break in service and re-enlisted in 1974. He held a reserve SF slot during that break. He was assigned to 10th Group at Devens where he was promoted to E5, but was put on levy to 3/7 due to his being a native Spanish speaker and the battalion's need for such at that time.

He left service, Honorably, in late 1980. Compassionate Hardship discharge to return to Nicaragua to allegedly help his grandparents with their coffee farm. In 1981, he was seen and made contact with two of 3/7's ASTs in Managua. He did not compromise them. He was in EPS uniform with rank of LT.

The rest is history. I will leave it at that.
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  #117  
Old 1 February 2019, 22:18
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Are your initials GW?
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  #118  
Old 2 February 2019, 12:43
Sakura no hana Sakura no hana is offline
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SB - PM me, please? Thank you.
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  #119  
Old 2 February 2019, 14:31
Sakura no hana Sakura no hana is offline
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SB - sending you PM - as you are an Administrator that would be more appropriate. As I noted - I've been away from social media for several years now.

Sakura sends.
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  #120  
Old 5 February 2019, 10:51
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"Nor was Bucky Burruss called a traitor for his chock-full-of-opsec fiction published in 1990, "Mission for Delta"."

Well, that's bullshit.
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