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  #61  
Old 1 November 2019, 18:38
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Buy my machine gun, Oh, by the way, you have to buy my proprietary ammo. I don't think so. Oh, more energy? faster bullet speed? You gotta buy more barrels too.
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Last edited by The Fat Guy; 2 November 2019 at 02:47.
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  #62  
Old 1 November 2019, 19:07
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My proprietary ammo, with a mystical steel base that makes it much more lethal. Energy, blah, blah. Look at the formula for energy and a steel base has nothing to do with it. M x Vsq = E. Not M x proprietary steel base = E

It briefs well though.
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  #63  
Old 1 November 2019, 23:55
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Well, impact is mass x acceleration. I suppose that prop steel base could add mass? But isn't it supposed to be lighter.

What does everyone think about the bullpup submissions? Will the US army ever go bullpup?
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  #64  
Old 2 November 2019, 06:44
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[QUOTE=Local;1058823237

What does everyone think about the bullpup submissions? Will the US army ever go bullpup?[/QUOTE]

IMO no, traditional design is the way to go. As a bullpup owner I find them more of a PITA to field strip than a AR/AK. Reloads are much slower and awkward compared to traditional rifles. Don't get me wrong I like the compactness and shooting them. If I had a choice between one or the other I'd take a traditional design over the bullpup.
I won't start on the difference in triggers.
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  #65  
Old 2 November 2019, 07:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Local View Post
Well, impact is mass x acceleration. I suppose that prop steel base could add mass? But isn't it supposed to be lighter.

What does everyone think about the bullpup submissions? Will the US army ever go bullpup?
I don’t think they will, as the AR platform is too ingrained. Plus the cost for a quality Bullpup is about double that if an AR.

But many of the major players seem to have switched - China, UK, Israel, Australia, India, Thailand, France, etc.

I wouldchsvectonrsoectfully disagree with GPC, as find the Tavor and the AUG much easier to field strip, gets less dirty than ARs. And the less overall length is much easier in vehicles or CqB.
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  #66  
Old 2 November 2019, 07:44
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I don’t think the “magic bullet” syndrome will ever be cured. The attempt to create a cartridge for a pre-existing magazine limitation is futile. The AR platform is ingenious and no rifle made for open land warfare should have a folding stock. Since the AR10 was rejected for weight and the 15 magwell and bolt face are no longer sufficient, where is the redesign for the AR20? The cartridge must first be designed for desired performance at the required combative engagement distances then increase the size of the mag & platform. After seeing what happened with the sig pistol corruption debacle, I don’t cling to much hope for an intelligent decision.
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  #67  
Old 2 November 2019, 11:10
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The new round "supposed to" be able to defeat the new armor our adversaries are fielding. A lot of these arguments end up being circular where everyone says we should ignore new material solutions and focus only on the training.

I think there is a dual component to this. Obviously, the training piece needs to be addressed. Our soldiers and marines have not much more than a baseline level of training at the overall organizational level. SOF units get far more range time and their skills are quantifiably better as a result. Everyone can always benefit from additional training time and lots more ammo. Even for the people who suck, shooting every day makes it a whole lot harder to suck. They'll get better just through familiarity.

The material solution has a place though. There are many instances of guys in recent theatres who have been engaged by adversary weapons systems beyond the effective range of their organic weapons. The .338NM medium machine gun is a good fix for this. Being able to effectively engage targets out to 2K with a gun that's weight neutral to the existing 7.62 M240 is a game-changer. Every vehicle or outpost in the mountains can effectively double their effective engagement range without having to haul an M2 with a tripod and other supporting equipment. The .50 Cal ammo alone is a bitch to move around compared to rounds that weigh a fraction of the .50 but still have the reach to get out there.

I'm cool with letting industry innovate. The only downside is that of the competitors, one is blatantly ripping off design ideas from another, one has ammo that's far from ideal, and one has a bullpup. I have a feeling Sig is the front runner at this point, not because they have the better platform, but because their offering looks the closest to what our current generation of troops thinks the next rifle should cosmetically look like.
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  #68  
Old 2 November 2019, 11:15
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Decide on a caliber with a decent ballistic coefficient design the case around weight, mag capacity and other ergonomics and then as opposed to buying a whole new weapons system for say, suppressed fire, adapt the load to heavier slower round and a mid weight 2500+ fps battle rifle round and a slightly heavier long distance round with some slower burning powder for an adaptable upper with a longer barrel. Yea, I want some of that.
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  #69  
Old 2 November 2019, 14:02
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The bullet does the work, design everything else around the bullet you need to launch. S/F....Ken M
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  #70  
Old 5 November 2019, 15:35
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https://taskandpurpose.com/true-velo...idge-army-ngsw

Here's more about the competitors, frankly, I think it's a nice experiment, but this is done by some wonks in a government research lab getting straight salary, as a deliberate, cost controlled, experiment. Not a bunch of coke head sales-junkies trying to swindle, I mean sell stuff to the USG, using their speed rap jibberish. S/F...Ken M
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"If you remember nothing else about what I’m about to consider here, remember this: the one and only reason politicians, bureaucrats, and policemen want to take your weapons away from you is so that they can do things to you that they couldn’t do if you still had your weapons."— L. Neil Smith

“The consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.”
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