SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #341  
Old 3 July 2019, 23:35
wowzers wowzers is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2,001
Does anyone have any experience loading shot shells for pistols? In particular a .44mag?
Reply With Quote
  #342  
Old 4 July 2019, 04:31
Stretch Stretch is offline
The atomic zit
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Capital of the Old North State
Posts: 4,222
My father used to reload .44mags. I’ll ask and see what he remembers.
Reply With Quote
  #343  
Old 4 July 2019, 04:50
EchoFiveMike's Avatar
EchoFiveMike EchoFiveMike is offline
Make a desert and call it peace.
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: back home, IVO chicago
Posts: 8,770
Yes, the Speer shot capsules. Was really a fragile pain in the ass, I would strongly encourage just buying the loaded ammo unless you're having an Indiana Jones level snake problem.

I'm seen people do shot loads using gas checks crimped into a case, payload is small and the checks seem to make significant holes in the shot patterns. S/F....Ken M
__________________
"If you remember nothing else about what Iím about to consider here, remember this: the one and only reason politicians, bureaucrats, and policemen want to take your weapons away from you is so that they can do things to you that they couldnít do if you still had your weapons."ó L. Neil Smith

ďThe consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.Ē
- Robert E. Lee
Reply With Quote
  #344  
Old 4 July 2019, 08:03
wowzers wowzers is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2,001
I have seen several recipes using the gas checks as well as others using cardboard for wading.

I'm wanting to load them with a little heavier shot than the CCI to shoot grouse and rabbits with. The factory ones work okay but are expensive and pretty small shot.
Reply With Quote
  #345  
Old 4 July 2019, 09:29
The Fat Guy's Avatar
The Fat Guy The Fat Guy is offline
Hard to Kill
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Getting off the lawn.
Posts: 14,912
I looked into this, but there are several challenges, like crushing the shot cup. The key is using small cardboard buffers on both sides of the shot and then either crimping or sealing the shot in the case with no cup sticking out the front. I would think you can use gas checks as well.

Here are a few utoobs on the technique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUfcZn7Vcn4

45 LC

OK, late to the game. The 45 LC utoob shows how to use a gas check
__________________
No one will take better care of us, than us: Suicide Hotline: 1-800-273-8255

Last edited by The Fat Guy; 4 July 2019 at 09:47.
Reply With Quote
  #346  
Old 4 July 2019, 18:32
Stretch Stretch is offline
The atomic zit
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Capital of the Old North State
Posts: 4,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
My father used to reload .44mags. Iíll ask and see what he remembers.
wowzers,

I might have to quote Mark Twain on this one:

ďThe issue is how to get the powder burning before starting the shot to move. The burn rate of the powder effects the chamber pressure which in turn effects the burn rate of the powder. Make sense? If the powder burns at a low pressure the shot may come out too slow. What is too slow? This will be an experimental process to match the powder, weight of the shot and something to hold the shot in - a sabot or something. One might modify a 410 shotgun wad. The stack would look like powder - wad - shot -wad. How much space does that take? Reduce wad thickness - top first. Probably have to look at wad diameter - if too small get a 28 gauge wad and cut to down. Other option is a plastic wad (sabot) with shot holder. Will it fit (diameter and length). Can you even get 1/2 oz in the 44 case? How do you close the top of the case? Some type of brittle epoxy?

How much powder? The 410 with 1/2 oz (240 grains) of shot and 30-40 grains of 2400 produces ~18,000 psi and a muzzle energy of750 ft-lbs or so. A nominal 44 magnum (240-290 grain bullet and 30-40 grains of 2400) you get ~ 36,000 PSI and 800 to 1200 ft-lb. Note the difference on the difference the length of the shotgun barrel makes - Shotgun ~ 28" Piston 6-9".

As you can see there are a whole bunch of variables. Other things to consider - the slow burning speed will foul the piston barrel grooves until they become so leaded with the shot it won't matter. The pressure difference means that unless you do something really stupid in the piston there won't be a safety problem. Wear safety glasses and a welding glove. Note that powder burns, albeit at a rapid rate. It does not explode (detonate).

DadĒ

I hope this helps you in your endeavor.

S
Reply With Quote
  #347  
Old 4 July 2019, 20:17
hawkdrver's Avatar
hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
Red Headed Stepchild
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: AK
Posts: 3,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowzers View Post
Does anyone have any experience loading shot shells for pistols? In particular a .44mag?
You have my interest. What's the intended target?
Reply With Quote
  #348  
Old 4 July 2019, 22:12
The Fat Guy's Avatar
The Fat Guy The Fat Guy is offline
Hard to Kill
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Getting off the lawn.
Posts: 14,912
Speer makes the cups, but they are expensive.
__________________
No one will take better care of us, than us: Suicide Hotline: 1-800-273-8255
Reply With Quote
  #349  
Old 6 July 2019, 09:14
wowzers wowzers is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkdrver View Post
You have my interest. What's the intended target?
Grouse and snowshoe hares.

Appreciate the help folks. I'll post some pictures of what I come up with.

Last edited by wowzers; 6 July 2019 at 09:24.
Reply With Quote
  #350  
Old 7 July 2019, 20:05
usacivpol usacivpol is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 452
Several years ago I dade a bunch using the gas check method. At the time you could not get .45 colt shotshells.
I made some for calibers there were no capsule for. I still have 50 41 mag shotshells and some for 45/70 that I made up in case of grouse arrack during a bear hunt.

The revolver loads were absolute death on snakes. you dont expect much of a pattern with soft lead bouncing down a rifled Bbl, but it worked a lot better than I expected, better than the commercial capsules.

They were very labor intensive. setting the gascheck over the powder as the bottom "wad" and another on top of the shot as the sealing "wad" then a heavy roll crimp to lock it in place.

I extrapolated my loads from the speer reloading data for the capsules and weighing the payload. I still have the notes written in the cover of that manual, but it is in storage just now. I know some people shortcutted the top gascheck by sealing with hot glue or wax, but I felt like that would hold the top shot together in a wad, or melt in transit.
__________________
you want fries with that?
Reply With Quote
  #351  
Old 8 July 2019, 02:58
hawkdrver's Avatar
hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
Red Headed Stepchild
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: AK
Posts: 3,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowzers View Post
Grouse and snowshoe hares.

Appreciate the help folks. I'll post some pictures of what I come up with.
Now that you mention it...not a bad idea for ptarmigan. Might have to try this.
Reply With Quote
  #352  
Old 8 July 2019, 11:20
Expatmedic's Avatar
Expatmedic Expatmedic is offline
Anesthetized User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,823
Primer Pockets

How loose is too loose? I have a few that seat just fine but take little effort at all, but stay seated.

Your thoughts?
__________________
Support SOCNET.

It don't come easy.--Ringo Starr

"And all that remains is the faces and the names of the wives and the sons and the daughters."--Gordon Lightfoot.
Reply With Quote
  #353  
Old 11 August 2019, 15:18
tim416 tim416 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 61
I have a new set of RCBS dies for a .404 Jeffery. When adjusting the die itself to crimp the case I am out of room with the bullet seater adjustment, (completely at the top). I cannot crimp the cases without seating the bullet too deep. Trying to load 400 grain solids. I have used RCBS for forty years in many calibers, including other big bores, never had this happen.

Am I missing something here?
Reply With Quote
  #354  
Old 11 August 2019, 15:23
EchoFiveMike's Avatar
EchoFiveMike EchoFiveMike is offline
Make a desert and call it peace.
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: back home, IVO chicago
Posts: 8,770
Seat and crimp as seperate steps. Take the seater out when crimping. S/F. Ken M
__________________
"If you remember nothing else about what Iím about to consider here, remember this: the one and only reason politicians, bureaucrats, and policemen want to take your weapons away from you is so that they can do things to you that they couldnít do if you still had your weapons."ó L. Neil Smith

ďThe consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.Ē
- Robert E. Lee
Reply With Quote
  #355  
Old 11 August 2019, 15:54
tim416 tim416 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoFiveMike View Post
Seat and crimp as seperate steps. Take the seater out when crimping. S/F. Ken M
That is what I ended up doing. I was simply surprised I had to. Never ran into it before and I have loaded several longer bullets,(usually solids) in big bores such as .416's and .458 Lott never having the issue. I measured my older .458 dies which are also RCBS and they are over a half inch longer than the new .404 Jeffery dies I just bought. Not much margin for bullet length.
Reply With Quote
  #356  
Old 11 August 2019, 22:29
mdwest's Avatar
mdwest mdwest is offline
exquisitus asinus
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: here
Posts: 3,121
Enough about seating and crimping problems...

Tell us more about this 404 Jeff!

I have no clue why I think I need another big bore...

But I’ve been thinking very hard about building a 404j on a LR Mauser action I’ve got sitting in the safe...

470 capstick has been on my brain as well.. but I’m pretty sure I’m going the Jeffrey route at this point...
__________________
That which is ready to fall deserves to be pushed.
Reply With Quote
  #357  
Old 11 August 2019, 22:30
Mars Mars is offline
Violence of Action
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 8,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdwest View Post
...I have no clue why I think I need another big bore...
Because you go after a lot of really big critters....
Reply With Quote
  #358  
Old 11 August 2019, 22:50
tim416 tim416 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdwest View Post
Enough about seating and crimping problems...

Tell us more about this 404 Jeff!

I have no clue why I think I need another big bore...

But Iíve been thinking very hard about building a 404j on a LR Mauser action Iíve got sitting in the safe...

470 capstick has been on my brain as well.. but Iím pretty sure Iím going the Jeffrey route at this point...
The 404 is the classic African cartridge. I, like you, had the good fortune to stumble onto a magnum length Mauser action. I could not bring myself to defile it by building anything other than the .404. When I opened the box of .404 brass, my nose was hit with the smell of an open fire and of long grass heated by the mid-day sun. Any further questions?
Reply With Quote
  #359  
Old 12 August 2019, 14:21
EchoFiveMike's Avatar
EchoFiveMike EchoFiveMike is offline
Make a desert and call it peace.
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: back home, IVO chicago
Posts: 8,770
Without seeing the actual die and seating stem hard to say exactly, but you can shorten the seater with a lathe and that will likely solve the issue. You want to make sure you keep it concentric, that's why use a lathe. S/F....Ken M
__________________
"If you remember nothing else about what Iím about to consider here, remember this: the one and only reason politicians, bureaucrats, and policemen want to take your weapons away from you is so that they can do things to you that they couldnít do if you still had your weapons."ó L. Neil Smith

ďThe consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.Ē
- Robert E. Lee
Reply With Quote
  #360  
Old 13 August 2019, 22:01
Steve788 Steve788 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: GA
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
I looked into this, but there are several challenges, like crushing the shot cup. The key is using small cardboard buffers on both sides of the shot and then either crimping or sealing the shot in the case with no cup sticking out the front. I would think you can use gas checks as well.
I just got my first revolver, a beat up Model 64, and have been
working up snake & carpenter bee loads. There's a lot of info on
the S&W forum.

Grits for the bee loads, 7 1/2 shot from trap loads for the snake
rounds. Using 4 gr of HP38/Win231 (357 case), the snake shot penetrates
both sides of a 15# Milkbone box at about five feet. For the carpenter bees,
1.5 gr Bullseye (.38 case). Quiet enough to not draw neighborly attention,
even in a subdivision.

Used cardboard wads cut with a sharpened case mouth, with
the last wad sealed/glued with elmer's.

Drill out flash holes on cases for both loads, or they'll back out
primers and lock up the cylinder. Best to mark those cases to
keep em from being used in "normal" loads.

I need to see how heavy a crimp I can put on the snake loads.
They "came unglued" when I shot other normal bullet rounds
in the same cylinder, ahead of the snake load.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:42.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
© SOCNET 1996-2018