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  #41  
Old 12 January 2009, 12:56
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I think you should pursue it. They fired you and then made up a bullshit excuse (the medical thing and then budget) and then turned around and hired a guy who had previously been there and left. I say for it and explore any and all options.
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  #42  
Old 12 January 2009, 13:23
Looon Looon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger Luna View Post
I was involved in a wrongful termination suit in the 90's, in Cali.

I was a contractor that was working for another employer. Since I took ALL of my direction from the host company in regard to my daily duties, it was determined that legaly, I was their employee.

I ended up settling out of court a couple of years later for a considerable amount considering my wage.

Having said that, I wouldn't do it again if it happened to me again. Wasn't worth it in the long run. I should have just moved on and let it go.

Sometimes you just have to FIDO.
I should have added: The law firm that represented me thought my case was worthy of them putting all money up front for me. I only had to pay WHEN/IF I won. (i forget the term)

If you can't find a lawyer that is willing to do that, it will cost you 10's of THOUSANDS $+.

I ended up paying $20,000.00 to my lawyer off the top of my settlement. That doesn't include their %.
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  #43  
Old 14 January 2009, 12:58
Rover in Iraq Rover in Iraq is offline
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at will clauses...

Here's where most companies mess up: Most at will clauses state something like, "either party may terminate employment, with or without cause, and with or without notice". They also usually state if there is a notification period, i.e. 30days notice. Here's the deal; if they just tell you your services are no lnger needed and wish you good luck in your future endeavors, you really don't stand much chance in litigation. However, if they tell you you're being fired for cause and what that cause is (especially when that cause is as lame as the one given in this case), then there is cause for litigation. I have seen this work both ways in the last thirteen years. Almost without exception, if the cause is something the employee isn't ashamed of (makes him personally appear to be unethical or immoral because the cause is true) they have won in court. If you ever work in HR for a company using an at will agreement, the easiest way to lose a loser is to let him go with best wishes explaining his services are simply no longer needed.
Good Luck!
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  #44  
Old 14 January 2009, 13:07
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Originally Posted by Rover in Iraq View Post
Here's the deal; if they just tell you your services are no lnger needed and wish you good luck in your future endeavors, you really don't stand much chance in litigation.
Disagree. Simply telling someone thier services are no longer needed does not release an "at will" employer from claims of discrimination against a protected class or other wrongful termination claims.
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  #45  
Old 14 January 2009, 13:08
Carl Spackler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger Luna View Post
I was involved in a wrongful termination suit in the 90's, in Cali.

I was a contractor that was working for another employer. Since I took ALL of my direction from the host company in regard to my daily duties, it was determined that legaly, I was their employee.

I ended up settling out of court a couple of years later for a considerable amount considering my wage.

Having said that, I wouldn't do it again if it happened to me again. Wasn't worth it in the long run. I should have just moved on and let it go.

Sometimes you just have to FIDO.
Spent all day yesterday as a witness for a bud in a labor disput issue. All medical related and he is a vet. This case has been going on for over 8 years. I can tell you that unless you are ready to give up your life to purse it, read Luna's post above. It can damn near kill your life. The company at fault was Boeing as well. Maybe smaller companies are easier to work on but moving on is probably the best option.
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  #46  
Old 14 January 2009, 13:13
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A finer point in pursuit...the preferred approach is to get a good attorney engaged with the company's legal department prior to filing an EEOC or other labor board complaint. If you have a good argument, and can make the employer uncomfortable about going before an agency to defend their case, there is an opportunity to settle prior to litigation. Once a claim is actually filed, an employer is more likley to fight, and fight harder and fight longer.

Just my .02 from observation...certainly does not apply to all situations.
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  #47  
Old 14 January 2009, 14:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Corporate Guy View Post
A finer point in pursuit...the preferred approach is to get a good attorney engaged with the company's legal department prior to filing an EEOC or other labor board complaint. If you have a good argument, and can make the employer uncomfortable about going before an agency to defend their case, there is an opportunity to settle prior to litigation. Once a claim is actually filed, an employer is more likley to fight, and fight harder and fight longer.

Concur. Good advice.
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  #48  
Old 14 January 2009, 15:01
Rover in Iraq Rover in Iraq is offline
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corporate guy....

If a company gives no cause then there is no issue to bring to litigation unless you can prove that they discriminated against you as a protected class. You can certainly try but unless you have strong witnesses or access to what is probably proprietary information to show a history of such discrimination by the company, you will have a long row to hoe. The case in this string would probably have a good chance in litigation because they told him what the cause was. Bottom line you can bring anything to litigation, that's why the courts are clogged by frivilous law suits.
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  #49  
Old 14 January 2009, 17:09
Carl Spackler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Corporate Guy View Post
A finer point in pursuit...the preferred approach is to get a good attorney engaged with the company's legal department prior to filing an EEOC or other labor board complaint. If you have a good argument, and can make the employer uncomfortable about going before an agency to defend their case, there is an opportunity to settle prior to litigation. Once a claim is actually filed, an employer is more likley to fight, and fight harder and fight longer.

Just my .02 from observation...certainly does not apply to all situations.
He did all that. Started out good but the money began to cease from the constant continuances. Seriously the state pretty much gave up the ghost. I will never believe in the current system until it has a complete overhaul.

"He with the most money wins", Eddie Murphy, 1996
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  #50  
Old 14 January 2009, 19:27
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Originally Posted by Rover in Iraq View Post
If you ever work in HR for a company using an at will agreement, the easiest way to lose a loser is to let him go with best wishes explaining his services are simply no longer needed.
I wish it were that simple all the time.

If you are going to fire someone, you have to fire them for basically one of three reasons if you expect to come out clean on it.

1) Performance. Must be documented heavily. This is painful and tricky to do right.

2) Bahavior. Unacceptable behavior like hitting on female EEs after being told not to. Not as much documentation, not as tricky, but still requires finesse to do it right.

3) Position elimination. This is very clean but you cannot fill the position internally or hire someone from the outside to perform even a portion of the previous position, for a minimum of a year.

Invariably, when I reach out to HR and tell them I am going to fire someone, regardless of which of the three above I am going with, HR always asks, in this order?

1. Are they a minority?
2. Are they disabled?
3. How old are they?

If I have a white able-bodied male between 35 and 45, I am good to go. if not, I am often referred to legal immediately.
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  #51  
Old 15 January 2009, 00:20
HSpad HSpad is offline
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if the company received federal financial assistance (contracts, etc), they are required to have an affirmative action program for veterans and people with disabilities (Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973). IIRC, federal law superceded state law.
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  #52  
Old 15 January 2009, 00:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
If I have a white able-bodied male between 35 and 45, I am good to go.
No love for the over-40 crowd?
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  #53  
Old 15 January 2009, 01:19
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by MP18D View Post
Arm1-
Yup, Kali is a right to work state, but that gets beat all the time in courts.
And if they stick to the story of too many MD appts, they are screwed....Federal "Americans w/Disabilities Act" supercedes the right to work thing....in other words if you were "disabled" (esp w/a Service Connected Disability) when you were hired, then they released you due to that disability.....no bueno.
Do you have a copy of your application when you were hired? (Email or paper?) If it states the clear fact that you were disabled when hired, that will help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekaphoto View Post
In Ca they can fire you for no reason, however thay can NOT fire you due to disability or going to a MD etc. sounds like me they violated the law.
I hate pretty much all I ever hear about the State of Claifornia, but the one thing that ALWAYS seems to be present, is the fact that Litigation seems to be an option. I hope you screw them with their pants on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rover in Iraq View Post
Here's where most companies mess up: Most at will clauses state something like, "either party may terminate employment, with or without cause, and with or without notice". They also usually state if there is a notification period, i.e. 30days notice. Here's the deal; if they just tell you your services are no longer needed and wish you good luck in your future endeavors, you really don't stand much chance in litigation. However, if they tell you you're being fired for cause and what that cause is (especially when that cause is as lame as the one given in this case), then there is cause for litigation. I have seen this work both ways in the last thirteen years. Almost without exception, if the cause is something the employee isn't ashamed of (makes him personally appear to be unethical or immoral because the cause is true) they have won in court. If you ever work in HR for a company using an at will agreement, the easiest way to lose a loser is to let him go with best wishes explaining his services are simply no longer needed.
Good Luck!
But they hired another guy. If you were not 'needed' then they had better leave that spot vacant. Do you know if the other guy would be a cheaper hire? Will they be saving $$$ with him vs. you on the payroll?


Armorer,
I hope you get justice. Real, honest, clear vindication. I would also pass a note onto the DoD IG's office that may get them to look at the company's discrimination of Disabled Vets.

Is it just me, or do these friggin morons forget that our nation is at War. ANY position that trains men and women to fight, shoot, or swim better (either civilian contracting, or DoD) should not be going on the cheap. They need to fuck the bottom line a little bit and remember that what they are training, will SAVE FRIGGIN LIVES!!!! Patriotism is bruised enough, it does not need the help of greedy CEOs of corporate America.

My .02
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  #54  
Old 15 January 2009, 20:55
armorer1 armorer1 is offline
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I told them of my 60% disability when I interviewed. The company is a small business, veteran owned...that's what REALLY gets me. The President/CEO was a former SEAL himself and he ALWAYS talked about helping disabled vets....then he does this. That's part of the reason I was blown away. I've tried to get something in writing and they won't give it to me. I've left message w/ CA Division of Labor Standards for my region. I haven't spoke to a lawyer yet, I don't have the money right now for that. I'm going in tomorrow to return all of my issued gear and will try again to get something in writing. I think realizing they said VA appointments, they changed their tune. But, my performance was outstanding and I kept copies of all my evals. The other guy they hired was a former employee who'd left for another job, but came back. His salary is a bit less then mine (I was fully certified thru the Navy for the course I taught, he is not yet). My former co-workers couldn't believe they let me go, and in fact they cancelled VA appointments themselves!! Thanks for the help everyone.
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  #55  
Old 15 January 2009, 21:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armorer1
I haven't spoke to a lawyer yet, I don't have the money right now for that....
Now you're just being silly. You will NEVER have enough money to see a lawyer. Call and get an appointment(s). You are very likely to get a feel for where to go after getting some professional input. You might find that you are not going to be out even one penny -- as in they will carve their share off of whatever amount is awarded in your favor....
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  #56  
Old 15 January 2009, 21:12
Looon Looon is offline
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
- as in they will carve their share off of whatever amount is awarded in your favor....
Which is what happened in my case.......BUT, if you can't find a firm willing to do this, based on info and proof you are able to provide, you will just have to let it go and move on.

If your coworkers are willing to get your back, that will help immensly. If they aren't willing to, you are basically screwed.
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  #57  
Old 15 January 2009, 22:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armorer1 View Post
My former co-workers couldn't believe they let me go, and in fact they cancelled VA appointments themselves!!
Make sure you speak about how your incident has negatively effected your coworkers when you talk to a lawyer.

If your coworkers are canceling VA appointments based upon what happened to you that is saying something about their impression of the work environment.
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  #58  
Old 16 January 2009, 08:00
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iraqgunz iraqgunz is offline
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I have a friend near Long Beach who was fired recently from his job for some political type BS that went on. He was allegedly fired for no explainable reason and he has documentation showing that he did nothing wrong. He is now pursuing a case as well with a lawyer. Trust me this guy has no money and they are going to work his case and take their fee off the top. DO NOT let that stop you. You were wronged in the matter and you showed pursue this. At least make an initial consultation appointment and see what happens. You may discover that there are more options available than you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armorer1 View Post
I told them of my 60% disability when I interviewed. The company is a small business, veteran owned...that's what REALLY gets me. The President/CEO was a former SEAL himself and he ALWAYS talked about helping disabled vets....then he does this. That's part of the reason I was blown away. I've tried to get something in writing and they won't give it to me. I've left message w/ CA Division of Labor Standards for my region. I haven't spoke to a lawyer yet, I don't have the money right now for that. I'm going in tomorrow to return all of my issued gear and will try again to get something in writing. I think realizing they said VA appointments, they changed their tune. But, my performance was outstanding and I kept copies of all my evals. The other guy they hired was a former employee who'd left for another job, but came back. His salary is a bit less then mine (I was fully certified thru the Navy for the course I taught, he is not yet). My former co-workers couldn't believe they let me go, and in fact they cancelled VA appointments themselves!! Thanks for the help everyone.
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  #59  
Old 16 January 2009, 08:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraqgunz
You may discover that there are more options available than you think.
Including that the mere formality of a lawyer contacting them for specific info may motivate them to settle quickly and out of court....
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  #60  
Old 16 January 2009, 08:44
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There are lawyers on this board who may be able to put you in touch with someone willing to work for a % of the settlement or winnings. Pursue ALL options.
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