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  #21  
Old 5 October 2010, 21:41
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Originally Posted by Snyder0311 View Post
You're entitled to your opinion. Ed is a solid dude. ...
Didn't mean to disrespect Ed, just pointing out the tone. I wouldn't want any focus on my corporate culture to be, we are good cause the mil/govt and rest of corp America are so bad.

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  #22  
Old 6 October 2010, 08:58
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Originally Posted by Snyder0311 View Post
but what makes someone an "expert at working details"? Gavin pretty much pioneered the Private EP industry. If you've read his books, you know that he views protection as a thinking mans game. Protectors are in tune with what is going on around them. ct that Gavin knows, as much as he knows, I would not only consider him an expert, but THE EXPERT. And I'm not just saying that cause I work here lol.

Well since you want to keep opening up the can of worms, I'll state that he isn't even close to being the expert and has very little time on a detail. He didn't pioneer anything about EP. There's a number of people who did, who probably take offense to that claim and rightly so.

I suspect your exposure to EP or the "business" is only through his company and you've drank the cool aid.

I find your use of PSD vice EP interesting.
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  #23  
Old 6 October 2010, 09:14
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Originally Posted by Snyder0311 View Post
Actually, when Gavin started the firm back in 1978, he did do detail work, and actually still continues to supervise select details from time to time. Of course he is less involved now, but what makes someone an "expert at working details"? Gavin pretty much pioneered the Private EP industry.
Remember who you're talking to on this board. Some people might have been around as long or longer than GDB and handled much bigger accounts in the process.

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If you've read his books, you know that he views protection as a thinking mans game. Protectors are in tune with what is going on around them. One of his philosophies is what we call ZAP- Zen in the Art of Protection. We are not a bunch of gorilla bouncer types in monkey suits. We are first responders. Highly trained in responding to emergency situations. The fact that Gavin knows, as much as he knows, I would not only consider him an expert, but THE EXPERT. And I'm not just saying that cause I work here lol.
All those canny little acronyms still don't change the fact that you're essentially a security guard. You can give the guard all sorts of cool names like "protector" etc to create some sort of esprit de corps but at the end of the day you're still a guard.

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One thing we are NOT are IC's. We have a similar mission, but in a very different setting. You will never see us carrying M4's all tacted-out in the latest MOLLE gear.
IC's? As in Independent Contractor(s)? Or are you talking about security guards who are hired as IC's?

GDB has built a reputation, I'll give you that. But it's far from be-all-end-all. For the amount of kool-aid you guys are required to drink you should at least get paid better or not have to succumb to nicotine UA.

At any rate, good luck with the submissions. It's nice that you're offering to help.
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  #24  
Old 6 October 2010, 10:10
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Originally Posted by Nomad275 View Post

For the amount of kool-aid you guys are required to drink you should at least get paid better or not have to succumb to nicotine UA.
That's what I was thinking. The book just seems....hoke.

Although I don't think the selection rate is truly indicative of the caliber of people hired, thanks for helping guys out.

http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php...gavin+debecker
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  #25  
Old 6 October 2010, 11:40
Trojancd Trojancd is offline
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Snyder, quick note, PSD and EP are not the same thing.

Guys coming from down range are going to have a very tough time trying parlay their War Zone PSD experience into Executive Protection. There are so many differences that I won't get into, but trust me on the hiring process, and getting vetted, and then being accepted by the team is a huge hurdle. If you are doing the PSD to EP Transition, my suggestion is to come in as humbly as you can and be clear in your mind, that EP and PSD are not the same thing. The principals of security do apply, but the deployment of them is quite different.

For guys looking to get into the business, GDB isn't a bad option. You can get paid to learn, network and get experience at GDB. OR you can drop $5,10,15k to go to a course (some are excellent, others fall short, do your homework there) and learn. Then graduate from the course and start the freelancer job search/networking. The pay of a freelancer is substantially better, but without experience its very hard to get work.

I've worked many details with former GDB guys, and for the most part I have only had a couple of issues with them, mostly ego driven when you drill down to the source. GDB does offer a steady paycheck, and EP work is feast or famine sometimes depending on your choices so having steady employment especially right now, isn't a bad thing. You will learn what you do and don't like about EP, and can take your time to either move up in the ranks at GDB or you can find a new gig. From what i've seen, the GDB guys do seem to understand security pretty good, from residential to the detail guys, and GDB has always seemed to be on the lower end of the pay scale, but they always seem to have work.

I know some companies/teams WON'T hire former GDB guys unless they've spent a lot of time on other details.

Anyway, just some thoughts, I've never worked for GDB.
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  #26  
Old 6 October 2010, 12:03
Snyder0311 Snyder0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by Trojancd View Post
Snyder, quick note, PSD and EP are not the same thing.
I understand. And I was probably confusing some of you. In GDBA ALL SSA's (Security Staff Agents) fall under our "Protective Security Division" that's what everyone calls it. We have IT guys that fall under our Information Security Division (ISD) and we have investigators, psychologists, and case managers that fall under our Threat Assessment & Management (TAM)

We get a lot of Contractor guys who come from overseas, looking for stateside work. Every single upper executive within our "PSD" is a veteran with the exception of one. Our structure is very "Military" based in a lot of ways. Makes sense, because everyone draws upon their past experiences.

But you're right, GDBA is mainly EP work. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.
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  #27  
Old 6 October 2010, 12:21
Snyder0311 Snyder0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by Trojancd View Post
I know some companies/teams WON'T hire former GDB guys unless they've spent a lot of time on other details.
There are really two types of SSA's within GDBA.

1. Command Center guys
2. Field/Detail guys

It's really up to you what you want to do, some guys would rather do access control everyday and be home for dinner, other guys are constantly traveling, doing advanced work, and all the EP stuff you think of when talking about FP.

We have guys that are constantly going back and forth between Triple Canopy, Armor Group, US Training Center, XE... etc. working for GDBA in between contracts.
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  #28  
Old 6 October 2010, 12:28
Trojancd Trojancd is offline
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Originally Posted by Snyder0311 View Post
I understand. And I was probably confusing some of you. In GDBA ALL SSA's (Security Staff Agents) fall under our "Protective Security Division" that's what everyone calls it. .
Good clarification
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  #29  
Old 6 October 2010, 12:54
OldSoldier71 OldSoldier71 is offline
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I applied a couple of years ago. My application was denied based on the fact that I did not have a college degree. And of course I was smoking at the time so the degree was secondary.

Has that hard and fast qualifier been phased out? I would hope so, I have known many rock solid EP guys that never graduated high school, let alone college.

And I have seen your guys in action more than once. Never have seen them what I would call "low profile."
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  #30  
Old 6 October 2010, 13:11
Snyder0311 Snyder0311 is offline
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71,

Send me your resume if you're still interested. College degrees are not required. Military and or College education is preferred, but you don't need either if you have experience in EP. Some guys are ESI grads and that's all they got.
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  #31  
Old 6 October 2010, 14:10
TPT_1113 TPT_1113 is offline
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Originally Posted by Snyder0311 View Post
lol thanks Sean.

Keep the resumes coming guys! Keep in mind that the salary differs depending on the region.

https://www.gavindebecker.com/employ..._and_benefits/
The "No tobacco rule" is fucking retarded. Also, from the job description it sounds like this is less about EP and more about being a baby-sitter/chauffeur for Lady fucking GaGa.

I value integrity more so than money. No thank you, and quit bumping your own post.
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  #32  
Old 6 October 2010, 14:33
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Originally Posted by TPT_1113 View Post
The "No tobacco rule" is fucking retarded. Also, from the job description it sounds like this is less about EP and more about being a baby-sitter/chauffeur for Lady fucking GaGa.

I value integrity more so than money. No thank you, and quit bumping your own post.
You can or can not like the no tobacco rule. Sounds like a good policy to me. Lots of big companies are going to this. But not for the reasons stated.

Snyder here is sticking up for his company. The company has past performance and is a vetted company.

Also as stated, EP work is not PSD over seas window licker work.

Don't want to play in the EP field don't play.

GDB has openings and if people want to go to the course then let them.

You don't like the policy then dont work for them.

RO!!!
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  #33  
Old 6 October 2010, 15:22
OldSoldier71 OldSoldier71 is offline
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Originally Posted by TPT_1113 View Post
The "No tobacco rule" is fucking retarded. Also, from the job description it sounds like this is less about EP and more about being a baby-sitter/chauffeur for Lady fucking GaGa.

I value integrity more so than money. No thank you, and quit bumping your own post.
Since returning from Iraq 6 months ago I have been working as an independent, back on the EP circuit. EP IS more about babysitting and less about protection in the CONUS environment than it is high risk (read war zone) protection areas. I am proud of the service I provide, and I am very good at it. Most of the work I am doing now is armed. So guns are a part of the mix. But more important today is that I remember the clients water bottle and newspaper.

And BTW, Lady Gaga's camp pays extremely well. More than PSD in Iraq or Afghanistan does right now, and that is for sure.
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  #34  
Old 6 October 2010, 15:25
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Originally Posted by TPT_1113 View Post
The "No tobacco rule" is fucking retarded. Also, from the job description it sounds like this is less about EP and more about being a baby-sitter/chauffeur for Lady fucking GaGa.

I value integrity more so than money. No thank you, and quit bumping your own post.
Chill out. I decide what is going to get posted or bumped, not you by any stretch.

Just because some have questioned or challenged his assertions doesn't mean it's a free fire zone. You don't like the job description or the the no tobacco requirement, then don't apply. It's his company and he is free to do as he likes. It has nothing to do with integrity.
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  #35  
Old 6 October 2010, 15:29
OldSoldier71 OldSoldier71 is offline
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Originally Posted by Snyder0311 View Post
71,

Send me your resume if you're still interested. College degrees are not required. Military and or College education is preferred, but you don't need either if you have experience in EP. Some guys are ESI grads and that's all they got.

Man, your companies tune has changed. And for the better. I can remember when you guys wanted no part of high risk type guys.

I am good for the moment, working on my own, working when I want, for several different agencies. Besides 60k is a bit light. I am making that working part time. BUT I do have a guy from NYC that I am going to send your way. His e-mail will tell you that he was referred by Oldsoldier71. Trust me when I tell you...you want this kid.

Good luck in your search.
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  #36  
Old 6 October 2010, 15:35
Snyder0311 Snyder0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSoldier71 View Post
Most of the work I am doing now is armed. So guns are a part of the mix.
FYI - We use P229 .40 DAK's or DAO's. Everyone is required to maintain they're own Guard and Firearms Card. Obtaining a CCW is highly encouraged and those that posses them get a yearly bonus. Same goes for EMT certs, and Life Guard certs.

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But more important today is that I remember the clients water bottle and newspaper.
Couldn't be more true...
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  #37  
Old 6 October 2010, 17:39
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Sltwtr1 Sltwtr1 is offline
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Originally Posted by TPT_1113 View Post
The "No tobacco rule" is fucking retarded. Also, from the job description it sounds like this is less about EP and more about being a baby-sitter/chauffeur for Lady fucking GaGa.

I value integrity more so than money. No thank you, and quit bumping your own post.
I for one appreciate him coming on here and offering a job with a legit company and staying on here after taking a lot of shit.

I am not some EP guru but I do have enough experience to know it is part babysitting and service bro, that is EP, it is not all about the tricked out M4s and Molle gear.

I for one have no problem with the tobaco rule.. I fnn hate sitting beside a guy in a veh etc or on a plane who smells like shit because he smokes 6 packs a day.. even if you can't smoke on the job people who smoke probably knock back 5-6 in the AM before they come to work and still smell.. Then there are the studies about being less productive taking more breaks etc, etc..

Just my opinion, but I have no problem with it.

Lastly there are a lot of your fellow board members who are looking for jobs, times are tough. The guy has done nothing wrong and been very helpful. If you don't like the job or company fine, but no need to bash the guy and talk about integrity, I have no idea where you are even going with that??

I appreciate SB letting him post and the fact that people feel this is a good venue to recruit from..

SB already addressed your post but one more for the pig pile.. chill out...

Sltwtr1

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Last edited by Sltwtr1; 6 October 2010 at 17:42.
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  #38  
Old 6 October 2010, 21:49
USMC_ANGLICO USMC_ANGLICO is offline
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Originally Posted by Snyder0311 View Post
..."When a protector is lost in thought, he is literally lost to the present moment. To be there in space is one thing, but to be there in time is the main thing. To be present means to be pre-sent, to already be there when it happens. Since the nature of the mind is to wander, it must somehow be coaxed into the current moment, tamed specifically for protective work.

The big question is, perhaps the biggest question in protection, perhaps the biggest challenge in any important endeavor is How to stay in the present moment. The answers: Commitment, physical readiness, conditioning of the mind, and practice at seeing each new event as really new. This will all require freedom from craving.

Few things remove a person from the present moment as completely as craving. Imagine a smoker on a protective assignment, three hours since his last cigarette. The space between every relevant perception is quickly filled by the urge to have a cigarette. All day, he is riding the addiction roller coaster, chugging his way up the steep track toward satisfaction, thinking of little but reaching the top, perhaps getting a cigarette and then rolling downward into the next valley, a valley in which he'll predictably slow to a chug as he climbs the up the next steep track. Craving, imagining, planing, anticipating, attaining, satisfaction, and then a brief moment of freedom from craving-till the next cycle starts again, and then again.

A note from Gavin de Becker: Some readers might already be aware that our firm deploys a nicotine-free workforce. That doesn't mean simply no smoking at work. It means no smoking or other tobacco use at any time. Every employee in out firm is nicotine-free, 24 hours a day and we have random urinalysis to ensure it.

Years ago when I made that decision there was some controversy. I took a fair amount of criticism: Was I trying to control the off-duty lives of our protectors? Did my firm have the legal right to disqualify applicants who use tobacco? Etc.

We learned the some military sniper units had made the same decision about nicotine use because (among other reasons) snipers might be positioned at concealed locations for hours and must be careful not to reveal their location through lighting a match, for example. And even with the stakes involved, do you know what many addicted smokers do when in concealed sniper positions for hours? They light the match. Of course. They have no choice. A highly stressful situation is hardly the ideal circumstance to quit a powerful addiction. And if they resist the cravings, what happens to precision and accuracy after a few hours without nicotine? Let's just say it's not improved: hands shaking, blurred vision, inability to concentrate, looking for any opportunity to take a break and get a cigarette - all things that distance the smoker from our goal of being present."

He goes on to cover more on this subject, but I think you get the point.
Not to beat a dead horse over the tobacco issue with this organization anymore than it already has been, but I was surprised to see that no one had pointed out that for an individual person some cravings are more severe than others and while they may be a non-nicotine user, the loss of focus while at work that is of such a concern could be stemmed from another medium. As for example, with myself and most of the guys I have worked with in the past; military, LE, and now as an OCONUS Protective Agent , you could probably substitute a good number of other vices rather than nicotine. Not saying that is bad in any way, I have my vices too, for a man who states he has no vices is probably lying, but to pinpoint nicotine usage as a prediliction of possible un-professionalism service by these folks, just seems silly.

I mean, try putting one of our non-nicotine using EP professionals on a detail where he has been working non-stop, hasn't had time to keep to normal life cycle, for example getting laid, and then put him in an environment surrounded by gorgeous women at a hollywood party, where these women are indulging in their personal vices and inhibitions are being lowered, because that never happens with the rich, and see how focused these guys are going to be.

A true professional is capable of performing their job at optimum, no matter if they get that smoke or not, those are the professionals who should be truely sought. Now, if it is a appearance issue, or as someone had stated, the stench of a smoke following you around all day, I think that would be a more valid explanation as it does not serve well for the client. But if you study any sort of military psychology or neuro-science, its a long known fact that the human mind is only capable of staying on focus to one certain point for so long before random thoughts creep in and deminish the total capacity to a point. That is why people are trained on how to actively recognize when they are drifting from focus and "snap back" to the (moment, present, now) which term you would like to use.

Anyway, just my 2 cents, which in this economy probably isint even worth that. Stay safe!
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  #39  
Old 7 October 2010, 08:43
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Any work in Michigan?
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  #40  
Old 7 October 2010, 09:24
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Originally Posted by USMC_ANGLICO
But if you study any sort of military psychology or neuro-science, its a long known fact that the human mind is only capable of staying on focus to one certain point for so long before random thoughts creep in and deminish the total capacity to a point. That is why people are trained on how to actively recognize when they are drifting from focus and "snap back" to the (moment, present, now) which term you would like to use....
I support the OP's company policy of not hiring tobacco users -- including dippers (which I understood to be the case, and not just smoking). I don't agree that tobacco users' cravings are the right motivator behind the ban, but rather the costs associated with insurance. I personally don't believe the ban to be the right decision, but I certainly support it.

People aren't robots -- and even robots (or computers) have their blue screen or spinning-circle-of-death moments. So people are going to be distracted. Whether by a pretty girl, something interesting in a newspaper laying on a bench, something funny a co-worker said, or simply running the math on how to exfil to conduct the next advance leaving in 15 min. Whatever. The point is, IMO, that having determined in advance those locations and situations likely to be most problematic, is the real weapon on avoiding the dangers of distraction. Because as humans, we ARE going to ride the roller-coaster of emotions, stress, adrenaline, AND boredom -- meaning that it is a real and generally present risk. One that simply needs to be mitigated, is all. Since I'm not a tobacco user, I can't opine as to how distracting the lack of tobacco is -- but I work with, and have worked with, many tobacco users. Their not having their fix wasn't/isn't my greatest concern -- as far as tobacco goes, that would still be keeping it's impact out of the eye of those clients/situations that it simply is not going to be acceptable for (in advance, yes -- I have clients that bum cigarettes off guys in their EP team, so not all clients frown on it's use).

The comment about mil snipers not allowing tobacco users, hmm -- never heard that one. I have heard a lot about not lighting up while on patrol/mission -- and never saw that as an issue with tobacco users that worked with me, even on VERY long missions.

As far as the job goes in regards to "baby-sitting", there are a number of people that don't understand what the gig often entails. Understanding that the gig means more than carrying a cool gun in a neato holster and wearing today's latest fashion eyewear in the most Facebook-photo appropriate manner possible, is sometimes beyond some people. Guess what? No one will miss having you on the team....
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