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#1
17 December 2011, 03:31
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Medals should be taken with a pinch of salt. The main function is to raise morale. The military will always embellish the stories. Call it marketing.
Most medals are for arbitrary stuff such as long service, served at such n such place, blah blah. Meaningless really. Then the ones that do count, the medals for valour, well for every guy who gets one there another 100 nameless guys who should also be getting one. So those medals are also meaningless but for different reasons. They aren't a reward for the recipient. They're a confidence boost for the masses. So the bottom line is just respect what the guy did and don't split hairs about it. And ignore the jam stealers with inferiority complexes who search for negativity to tie to these veterans who got the nod. This Sarge Dakota guy looks like a tough cookie  Me personally, the only trinket that I kept from those days is my beret with it's badge and my marksman badge. The rest went in the trash 
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#2
2 January 2012, 19:25
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Waving the BS Flag and Yon makes a good argument against the reporter
This is from the "Dispatches" section on Michael Yon's Website.
16 December 2011 I’ve made it back to America after being away about one year. I cannot begin to tell you how good it feels to be on US soil. This morning, in Tucson, two A-10 Warthogs flew overhead. The last time I saw A-10s was in Afghanistan. They were shooting just about every day. Now for some sad news. Today there are more stories about Dakota Meyer. Dakota was awarded the Medal of Honor for actions during his incredible and honorable service in the Marines. These stories are saddening because the more you read, the more you realize that Dakota is being tarred and feathered. This clearly is about politics and business. And so this morning I emailed to someone I know to be close to Dakota, offering moral support. This American remains beside you. A trusted source also sent this dissection of recent comments that are designed to cut down Dakota: Jonathan Landay has alleged that the Marine Corps deliberately inflated the heroism of Sergeant Dakota Meyer. This allegation has tarnished the reputations of the Marine Corps and of Sergeant Meyer. Landay quoted not one individual. Instead, he used statements made two years ago by those on the battlefield. There are many contradictions internal to those statements. For instance, Staff Sergeant Rodriguez-Chavez at one point stated, “… the fourth time we went into the valley.. we saw Swenson.” Actually, that happened during the second trip into the valley. Such inconsistencies in memory are normal. Ask eleven football players what happened in a game, and you will receive eleven different answers. Imagine how much more confusing it is in battle! Landay spent months poring over written statements. He wrote, “It's impossible to reconstruct a clear, chronological account of much of what followed from the statement.” He then selected some sentences that supported his bias, and ignored other sentences. The result was a series of half-truths, inconsistencies and errors, as illustrated below. 1 Landay: “Rodriguez-Chavez recounted the Afghans got into the vehicle themselves on both runs. He said Meyer stayed in the turret, firing a Mk 19.” Error: On the first run, the Mk 19 jammed. They switched to a truck with a .50 cal for the second run. 2 Landay: “Meyer didn’t save the lives of 13 U.S. service members… helicopters saved the remaining (six) Americans.” Comment: Two outposts with four Americans and over a dozen Afghans were under continuous fire, as were the six Americans pulling out of the valley. Meyer and Rodriguez-Chavez, in the only vehicle in the valley, became the bullet magnet for the insurgents, drawing their fire and, with Meyer on a .50 cal in the turret, preventing open enemy maneuver. Consider these written statements: Rodriguez-Chavez: “Meyer laid down suppressive fire” Swenson: “They (Meyer and Rodriguez-Chavez) drive forward; they provide suppressive fire.” The fact is there was suppressive fire both from the light helicopters and from Sgt. Meyer’s .50 caliber. Landay knew that, because he saw Meyer. Yet he chose not to report what he saw. 3 Landay: “Meyer killed one, not eight” Comment: The most famous Medal of Honor recipient in World War II - Audie Murphy - is credited with killing over one hundred Germans. His book is filled with killings. Yet if Murphy required eyewitnesses, nowhere near one hundred would have been credited. Similarly, this is true of the MoH for SEAL Lt Murphy in the 2005 battle in Afghanistan. There wasn’t the verification or exactitude Landay is demanding. Consider these other statements not used by Landay: Fabayo: “I saw 2 woman/children fire two RPG at CPL (Meyer).” Swenson: “How close the fight actually was, we are talking about people 20 meters away..” Rodriguez-Chavez: “Meyer shot one right next to the door with his M4.” (Rodriguez-Chavez drove over another one, and later Meyer killed another in hand to hand combat) Meyer, a deadly shot, fired over a thousand rounds of .50 cal and 7.62 machineguns. Are we to believe he killed insurgents at point blank range, but missed every other target over the course of six hours of shooting? 4 Landay: “Statements undermine the claim that Rodriguez-Chavez and Meyer drove into the valley against orders… Marine Corps doctrine authorized the two staff sergeants to take that initiative.” Error: the night before, Meyer told SSgt Rodriguez-Chavez he had arranged with his team to drive in to get them if an ambush occurred. When the ambush began, over the radio 1st Sgt Garza ordered Meyer not to come. When Rodriguez-Chavez and Meyer called a second time, they were told to get off the radio. Meyer then said, “we’re going in”. Two staff sergeants did not discuss this; up at his observation post, SSGT Valadez was told they were going in. He then offered to observe the road. It is disingenuous to assert that Marine doctrine authorized the two staff sergeants to take initiative. It was Meyer who persistently showed initiative, despite orders to the contrary. 5 Landay: 1st Sgt Garza “called Meyer forward” when he (Garza) was at the Casualty Collection Point” Error: Meyer had already been forward in the valley on three trips, and had covered Garza’s escape to the Casualty Collection Point. 6 Landay: “Meyer didn’t ride in the unarmored Ford Ranger pickup with Swenson.” Error: Meyer was in the Ranger with Swenson. It was just the two of them. Swenson has said this repeatedly. Swenson was driving. He helped Dakota put the body of Dodd Ali, Dakota’s best friend among the Afghan soldiers, in the back of the Ranger while they were under fire. 7 Landay: “The account of the battle in Swenson’s nomination is sharply at odds with the Marines’ account of Meyer’s deeds.” Error: the fact is that the Marines and Meyer have struggled for two years to insure Swenson is recognized as equally courageous and determined. In fact, Meyer has sent to the Army two pages of testimony, explaining in detail that Swenson was the man in charge on the battlefield and concluding that he, Meyer, is alive only because of Swenson. By portraying battlefield confusion as deliberate exaggeration, Landay has jeopardized Swenson’s nomination. 8 Landay: “No sworn statements refer to him leaping from the Humvee’s turret to rescue 24 wounded Afghan soldiers.” Error: Both Rodriguez-Chavez and Swenson have said that Meyer repeatedly left the safety of various vehicles to run in the open under fire to aid Afghan soldiers. 9 Landay: “The official account doesn’t explain how the pair could have evacuated 24 Afghan soldiers." Misleading: Does not take account of the whole battle. Meyer began picking up Afghans at about 0700. First trip: 5. 2d trip: 4. That’s nine. Then from 0930 (when Landay left the battlefield) to 1130, Meyer stayed in the valley. Between 0930 and 1130, at least six Afghan pickups drove in and out behind the gun truck. Meyer was in at least five different trucks during six hours of battle. All witnesses attested that Meyer was hopping in and out of the trucks to help the wounded. There were 90 Afghan soldiers in the valley when the battle began. Meyer had an overstuffed medbag, with more than 14 tourniquets. He used all the tourniquets. Nine plus fourteen equals 23, not 24. But the figure of 24 is not misleading; it is illustrative of Meyer’s efforts. In sum, Landay selected sentences to buttress his assertions. But other statements contradict Landay. There is no evidence of deliberate exaggeration. There is ample evidence of battlefield confusion. That is to be expected.
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#3
2 January 2012, 19:30
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Actually No
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#4
3 January 2012, 21:26
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"Marketing"? Must disagree. The military aren't the embellishers, the "doubters" and anti-war MSM are usually the ones that call into question a military award for valor like Sgt. Dakota earned, the MoH. Quote:
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Congrats Dakota, from those who weren't there but appreciate your sacrifice and effort.
__________________
[CENTER]“I was born for the storm, and a calm does not suit me.” - Andrew Jackson -[/CENTER] [CENTER]~D-6606~[/CENTER]
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#5
3 January 2012, 23:16
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Awesome. I give this a big thumbs up...
Quote:
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"See, you think I give a shit. Wrong. In fact, while you talk, I'm thinking how can I give less of a shit? That's why I look interested." "There won't be humans in 500 years. Enough people choke themselves when they jerk off we gave it a name. We ain't a species made to last." --ShitmyDadsays.
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#6
20 January 2012, 13:35
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Quote:
The awards I saw given in the Army were embellished all the time. My own awards make me sound like a good candidate to be the future Sergeant Major of the Army. I've seen my brother-in-law's embellished USMC awards as well so I refuse to believe it's a single-service issue... In regards to only "doubters" and anti-war MSM" questioning military awards -- what about those of us who have a lot of respect for the MoH award and don't like having hit pieces like this surface later because due diligence of the individuals responsible for issuing the award wasn't properly done? What if the journalist is actually right and the award was embellished or exaggerated? You don't see an issue with that? How do you know him well enough to question his integrity? "We don't do blah blah or meaningless." A huge portion of what the military does is "blah blah & meaningless" with a small portion of actual war fighting thrown in by a small portion of the actual force. Have you had your sexual harassment brief, your cultural diversity, your gay-rights brief done lately? Are you up to snuff with your Army Warrior tasks check-the-box training (or USMC equivalent)??? The military even has commonly used sayings about "blah blah and meaningless" - "hurry up and wait", "check the box", etc... You can't be part of the solution when you don't even recognize the problem...
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#7
20 January 2012, 16:41
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Not trying to be an ass but, the guy you are quoting/addressing has more than enough "Trigger time" and experience during his career to formulate his opinions. That whole tip of the spear thing and all. I happen to agree with him. Soldering is filled with some bullshit. It's part of it. I don't consider honor and valor to be in that category.
RB is a big boy, though. I'll let him defend his own opinion.
__________________
"See, you think I give a shit. Wrong. In fact, while you talk, I'm thinking how can I give less of a shit? That's why I look interested." "There won't be humans in 500 years. Enough people choke themselves when they jerk off we gave it a name. We ain't a species made to last." --ShitmyDadsays.
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#8
23 January 2012, 07:47
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I respect RB's service as much as anyone here does -- that has absolutely nothing to do with us disagreeing over this.
My honest guess would be that being at "the tip of the spear" as you put it - has possibly allowed RB to miss seeing a lot of the bullshit that takes place in regular units during the military awards process as the guys in his unit had enough going on where they could actually earn theirs without having people feel the need to fabricate or exaggerate... ...even if you haven't seen exaggeration in your own unit - look at Jessica Lynch's Silver Star -- it happens... In this case I don't think that anyone here is questioning whether Dakota Meyer actually deserves his MoH -- from everything I've read, he unquestionably does. I simply feel that it's definitely possible some of the claims were exaggerated by the military as I've witnessed that exact thing while serving myself and it's happened in high profile incidents in the past...
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Hybrid Mode
