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  #101  
Old 10 December 2017, 12:39
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Longrifle Longrifle is offline
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Originally Posted by IrishSoldier View Post
...As a state Israeli didn't exist until 1948 and was an impoverished back water for its first 30 years.
So how, in year 19 of those first 30 years, did that "impoverished back water" nation kick ass on several Soviet-equipped neighbors?
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  #102  
Old 10 December 2017, 14:08
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DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by Longrifle View Post
So how, in year 19 of those first 30 years, did that "impoverished back water" nation kick ass on several Soviet-equipped neighbors?
Haha, because they're like, Arabs and shit. The Inshallah-aiming-concept and everything. Soviet supplied or not, equipment only gets you so far. The rest of the way is purely on the fighting spirit and prowess of the flesh and blood underneath the uniform. And their leadership. And the Arabs are severely lacking on the modern battlefield on pretty much all points.

I'd postulate that the TRUE strength of the Israeli military isn't known, as they've never fought a truly worthy adversary (I guess the same could be said for all modern military forces though). Sure, there's something to be said against overcoming the sheer quantity and volume of halal meat the Arabs threw against the Jew buzzsaw in those early wars (of which I hear they were pretty much on the brink a few times)..........but the Arabs aren't exactly the world's A-game that the actual Soviet Army would have been.

Modern Arab "armies" (they're more like big Chicago/Detroit street gangs, IMO) I like to think of as that scene in Jurassic Park 3, where the dude is fucking around in the jungle and a bunch of those little chihuaha-sized Procompsognathus are scared of the dude very easily of him --- running at the slightest yell. But then when the guy is injured and weakened after falling off of a hill they swarm his ass and tear into him. Arabs are bottom-food chain predators. Cowardly and woefully inept in the attack. If somehow victorious, they are utterly and inhumanly cruel. But in defeat there is no greater despicable and pathetic creature. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty5sEGtClLE
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  #103  
Old 10 December 2017, 14:45
KillRoy KillRoy is offline
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Originally Posted by doitforjonny View Post
Damn! Knife fight in the library over in the history section...

I love hearing history being spouted out by supposed knuckledraggers, most of which were self educated.

Great read so far!
Ok, I laughed out loud at this.

Someone earlier had posted about wanting to get some books about the Roman Empire to learn more.

One thing I highly recommend is a podcast called "The History of Rome". It is done by a guy named Mike Duncan. He is just a regular guy who got interested in Rome from some books his grandfather gave him.

He started the podcast as weekly episodes in about 15-30 minute chunks. He covers the history sequentially and did several hundred episodes over the span of about 4 years.

He is an excellent storyteller and it is quite funny in places. It is a free download on iTunes.
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  #104  
Old 10 December 2017, 14:52
KillRoy KillRoy is offline
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Originally Posted by Longrifle View Post
I'm still waiting for him to connect his "Collapse of 1400" with the campaigns of the Chagatai Khanate beginning in 1370...
The Mongols sacked their capital of Baghdad and handed them their ass. There is no disputing that. That was the real beginning of the end for them.

But, it was the Ottomans conquest of their territory in the 1400s that finished the Muslim golden age for good. The Ottomans held most of the middle east territory that they took from them up until the end of WWI.

By then the Europeans were really getting it together and Paul85's ancestors were able to stop them and eventually turn the Ottomans back.
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  #105  
Old 10 December 2017, 15:15
KillRoy KillRoy is offline
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Originally Posted by ET1/ss nuke View Post
Not just subverted, but perverted as well.

I agree with this. No doubt.

But, I hesitate to get involved with the debates of Islam really says this, or the koran actually means that, oh and the prophet was in fact ..... You get the picture.

I think that this Islamic religion is actually just a propaganda tool that is used to motivate these turds in their war with us. It doesn't matter what some ambiguous passage of the Koran says, they want to fight a war with us and this is what they are using right now as motivation.

I am old enough to remember the PLO from the '70s. I think they were fighting the first phase of this war. Remember Munich, Entebbe, the Achille Lauro, all the jet highjackings, the bombings? Hell, Yasir Arafat even ordered the murder of the US Ambassador to Sudan.

The thing is, the PLO was NOT RELIGIOUS. The were a quasi-marxist organization that was Soviet supported. While they were nominally muslim, they were not fighting in the name of Islam.

Later on, after the Iranian revolution, religion came to the forefront. In the '80s, the PLO began to fade and Hezbullah took their place as the bogeyman. In the '90s and 2000's, it was Al Queda who took the lead from Hezbullah. Now it is ISIS. Once they are finished off, someone else will take their place.

These guys are just different year groups if you want to think of it that way. The religion doesn't matter as far as the content koran, it is just a way of identifying who is on their side.
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  #106  
Old 10 December 2017, 15:39
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
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We kept driving them back for quite some time before Battle of Vienna (since times of Murad II, actually). And they were coming back again and again. Poland was pretty close to Ottoman Empire in terms of location back then and major disputes escalated over territorial matters.

It's been a while since I tried to get my PhD in history so I'm rusty when it comes to exact dates. Anyway, history is history. Now is now - and I do believe that fanaticism and tribal mentality is ingrained in these people. They just don't want anything else. Submit and be taken over is their motto. But they also are good at going into submissive mode once being slapped. They perceive modern Western world as weaklings who are ripe for the taking. And Western world gladly bends over. Because most of the EU basically shoots at a target that isn't there - they try to talk to these people using ideas and concepts that do not exist in the Muslim world or hold a different meaning. A clash of cultures, that's how I see it.
We know these guys, having fought with them for quite a stretch of our history. Their ancestors respected only hard, iron fist. And they were very good at trying to stab you in the back.
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  #107  
Old 11 December 2017, 05:21
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Armageddon Armageddon is offline
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Originally Posted by Paul85 View Post
Their ancestors respected only hard, iron fist. And they were very good at trying to stab you in the back.
...and they still are!
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  #108  
Old 11 December 2017, 12:14
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Hoepoe Hoepoe is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
\
I'd postulate that the TRUE strength of the Israeli military isn't known, as they've never fought a truly worthy adversary (I guess the same could be said for all modern military forces though).
Actually, Israel has fought way more "worthy" adversaries than the US since WW2.

The challenge, conventional wars are "simpler" than the guerrilla warfare of today (of which some US units come to Israel to train pre-deployment, fyi..).

Looking at the most recent conventional wars:
Israel 73 war:
Israel, supported by the US
VERSUS
Egypt and Syria with additional forces from Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Lybia, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Cuba
Supported by the Soviet Union

Israel:
375,000–415,000 troops

Bad guys:
914,000–1,067,500 troops



US Desert Storm:
USA, Kuwait, UK, France , Saudi Arabia
VERSUS
Iraq supported by the PLO and Yemen

US and allies
956 000 troops

Bad guys:
650 000 troops

Both of these were very long ago, so i do agree that we don't know the status today, but keep in mind, the type's of wars have changed. I'm fairly certain Israel's conventional capability has suffered as a result of adjusting to the new type of adversary.

H
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  #109  
Old 11 December 2017, 12:48
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DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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By "worthy" I mean peer or near-peer. I'm no intel monkey, but I don't consider Arab armies a near-peer to any "western" style of first-world military force. Peer would arguably be Russia. Near Peer, rapidly approaching peer, is China. They (arabs) may dress their soldiers up to look like a modern army, but they are no more a modern military force than this dog that looks like a tiger. The only thing that can even the odds against quality is through sheer quantity. And even though, as Stalin said, "quantity is a quality all it's own" --- modern military forces have such amazing capability for inflicting insane amounts of casualties that the amount of men/equipment you'd need to just mass-wave your way through a first world enemy with air superiority probably would look something like a Zombie horde on WWZ.

But peer to near peer? A slug fest involving Russia, China, USA, NATO and former Warsaw nations? Shit. I have no idea our current capabilities as modern tech has changed so much, as have our societies, and our (west) has pivoted and been so focused on Unconventional warfare that I can't even imagine how we'd fare in a conventional war.
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  #110  
Old 11 December 2017, 13:01
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Tycon Tycon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillRoy View Post
One thing I highly recommend is a podcast called "The History of Rome". It is done by a guy named Mike Duncan. He is just a regular guy who got interested in Rome from some books his grandfather gave him.

He started the podcast as weekly episodes in about 15-30 minute chunks. He covers the history sequentially and did several hundred episodes over the span of about 4 years.

He is an excellent storyteller and it is quite funny in places. It is a free download on iTunes.
Here is a direct link outside of iTunes.
http://thehistoryofrome.com/episodes/
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