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  #41  
Old 29 September 2009, 08:58
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RangerCharlie RangerCharlie is offline
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My neighbor who passed last year served in the Army as a truck driver in the Pacific used to talk the B17 and B24 pilots into taking up their allotment of beer to chill it and bring it back for them. Cold beer for all!
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  #42  
Old 1 October 2009, 18:39
MASSDRIVER MASSDRIVER is offline
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I have built a couple of homes, and attend horse shows at Rancho Murieta in California, east of Sacramento.
Several times a B-17 has flown over this area. I'm not sure of the name, but it might be Sentimental Journey. I was wondering if anyone could confirm that. I'm sure it takes off from the local airfield.

My grandad was a tailgunner in the pacific theater in B-17's, but all he liked to talk about was how he was always pulling shit on somebody in the islands, or the partying that went on.
I guess that would be all I would want to remember too.
Brent.
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  #43  
Old 2 October 2009, 19:07
jane jane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
Something that I found amazing was that the 8th Air Force (ETO) had slightly more combat casulties than the Marines Corps (PTO). 8th had ~26,000 casualties and the USMC had ~24,000.

Another thing I thought interesting was that ~25% of the MOHs awarded in WW2 were for actions in the Italian Campaign.
Of course this has nothing to do with the large numbers of bomber casualties in the 8th AF, and it's anecdotal and I've never read this anywhere, but a friend who was with one of the 8th AF groups said that 8th was particularly targeted when they bailed out because one of them had used a parachuting Luftwaffe pilot for target practice.

Since the Pacific war has been mentioned, anyone have recommendations for books on the bombing war in the Pacific? I just read Fire and Fury: The Allied Bombing of Germany 1942-1945 by Randall Hansen. Great book. I'd like to find out about Pacific bombing because I have a teacher who said the US did a lot of carpet bombing in WW2 and I know that wasn't true in Europe. I had the website for Fire and Fury but can't find it now. http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~rhansen/Home.html
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  #44  
Old 3 October 2009, 07:04
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Johan Johan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jane View Post
8th was particularly targeted when they bailed out because one of them had used a parachuting Luftwaffe pilot for target practice.
This was not so. Mainly, bomber gunner over-claim air-to-air kill at a large ratio (10:1 or greater). Part of this is because when Luftwaffe fighter engage 'boost' (MW, or NO) it causes large cloud from exhaust, which could easily be identified as smoke from engine and possible critical hit on engine.

Also, logic is not sound. If fighter is hit by bomber defensive fire, at moment that Pilot tries to escape from fighter due to battle damage, he is far from effective range of bomber guns.

There are 2 specific USAAF/USAF bomber squadron that are targeted by Luftwaffe during WW2 with 'personal' intent- in both case, cause is that more than once- damaged bomber give 'sign' that they are to 'bail out' (lowering of lander gear during level flight, and other indicator) and when Luftwaffe fighter draw near, gunner open fire on Luftwaffe fighter.

This is great exception from normal practice for both side during that conflict. If you wish specific ID of 2 bomber squadron, I can find this for you.

As a rule, USAAF/USAF bomber crew are very brave as a standard, especially in 1943 mission (no fighter escort over target, and for significant part of egress).

Regards,
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  #45  
Old 3 October 2009, 08:46
jane jane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan View Post

Also, logic is not sound. If fighter is hit by bomber defensive fire, at moment that Pilot tries to escape from fighter due to battle damage, he is far from effective range of bomber guns.

Regards,
Good point. That certainly sounds logical.
If you can get it without any trouble, I would like to know the ID of the two squadrons. Don't go to any trouble, tho'. Thanks, Johan.
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  #46  
Old 28 October 2009, 12:18
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Brianj Brianj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jane View Post
...I would like to know the ID of the two squadrons.
The “wheels down” false surrender incident has been widely attributed to a crew of the 100th Bomb Group (Heavy) (B-17s), and a mission sometime in the Spring or Fall of 1943. Supposedly, the Luftwaffe announced a vendetta against the entire 100thBG, identified by their large “Square D” tail insignia (which would make some sense, as two-letter squadron codes were painted on the fuselage, and were probably more obscure to Luftwaffe pilots).

I’ve read a number of 8AF histories, and none seem to agree on the particular squadron, crew, or mission responsible; some claim it was another group altogether. Regardless, many 100thBG veterans dismiss the “vendetta” story as just another wartime legend passed among aircrews. Adolf Galland, commander of Luftwaffe fighter forces, also denied any such vendetta existed.
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  #47  
Old 5 April 2011, 15:04
pw7382 pw7382 is offline
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One the best air museums I have ever been in (and I have been in them worldwide) is the Pima County Air Museum in Tucson, AZ. They have a building completely devoted to the B17. With some of the crew as staff!
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  #48  
Old 5 April 2011, 15:34
Mortalitus Mortalitus is offline
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My grandfather on my mother's side served in the 459th Bomb group /757th Squadron. Aboard a fine B24-j liberator named "Ford's Folley" later recycled to another crew after being wounded ( The Ford's Folley was later lost along with all of his friends over Vienna while he was recuperating) then went on to finish the war. An extremey well written book of this Bomb group was written that includes AAR's, unit statistics throughout the war, personal diary entries, war logs, pictures (both official and personal, and really tells the whole story of the unit from inception to wars end.

My grandfather's Memorial page on the 459th/757th's page http://www.459bg.org/Ginnard_Clayton_S.cfm
The book is called "Coffee Tower" and compiled by one of the 2nd Lt's of the 757th named Lyle Mcarty. A copy of which was given to free to all surviving veterans and or 1 to each family if the veteran had passed away.

Last edited by Mortalitus; 5 April 2011 at 15:39.
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  #49  
Old 5 April 2011, 16:09
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HighDragLowSpeed HighDragLowSpeed is offline
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In lieu of opening another thread, the bravery of the B17/B24 crews wasn't limited to just Americans.

This site has a lot of first hand information and CRAZY stories about British crews flying the B17 (aircraft by aircraft)

http://www.214squadron.org.uk/crews_...fortress_m.htm
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