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Old 17 January 2009, 10:36
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Knee health

I put in a lot of miles weekly. I bike, swim, and do elliptical to ease the load but Rucking and Running still cover a majority of my program.

Overall fitness, footcare, etc. are good. Knees are also OK, but they are my primary pain after workouts and I am trying to ease things a bit.

- Taking Glu/Chon (Not sure if it really helps but whatever)
- Currently using "SoleUltra heat moldables" in the boots, but open to others.
- Stretching is daily routine (about 10 min prior and 15-20 post)


So, does anyone have additional advice/tips?

Also, how bad is runnig w/ a ruck? I know it's bad and I don't do it often, but on days that I time myself, I really push it. For instance, I more/less ran my 8 miler the other day....




Thanks in advance.
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Old 17 January 2009, 11:44
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Glucosamine is a good supplement for joint pain, I take that daily in addition to Glutamine for both my joints and muscles. Orthosilicic acid is also very important for strengthening joints, which is a biologically active form of silicon you can take as a supplement, known as BioSil. I personally recommend Jarrow Formulas brand for all.

Naturally occuring dietary sources of L-Glutamine include beef, chicken, fish, eggs, milk, dairy products, wheat, cabbage, beets, beans, spinach, and parsley.

What is your daily protein intake? Water intake?

Running with a ruck is good in some ways, bad in others. I'll let the docs on board handle that question, they know more about that than I do.
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Old 17 January 2009, 13:00
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I have found that taking Omega 3 helps my joints a lot, as well as being good for your heart, skin, etc. I take 4 grams a day. Take it with food or it'll make you nauseous.
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Old 17 January 2009, 13:19
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Thanks guys.

I've been taking Glucosamine and Chondroitin. I used to buy Osteo bi-flex but now I just go with the local grocery store brand. It says it has the same amount.......if anyone has an opinion otherwise, please let me know.


My daily protein intake is high. Lots of fish, chicken, nuts, etc. Protein shake daily after workout and additional shake or two during the day. Water consumption is very good. I used to never stretch after long runs or cold swims in the ocean.....bad idea.

I'll check that link and the (? however you spell it?) acid.
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Old 17 January 2009, 14:52
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SEA CUCUMBER,buy at local health food store(might have to order it)NOW makes it.i was told a long time ago that it works for joint injuries,it seems to work for me.comes in 500mg.
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Old 17 January 2009, 15:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balls View Post
Thanks guys.

I've been taking Glucosamine and Chondroitin. I used to buy Osteo bi-flex but now I just go with the local grocery store brand. It says it has the same amount.......if anyone has an opinion otherwise, please let me know.
I wouldn't buy just any store brand. I'm sure you know this, but the supplement industry isn't regulated at all. You can't be sure what's listed on the label is actually what you're getting.

I buy 90% of my supplements from Life Extension Foundation. Their products are very high quality. I've read about independent lab studies done on various supplement companies/products and Life Extension supplements are always on top.
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Old 17 January 2009, 15:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balls View Post
My daily protein intake is high nuts, etc
Freaking Marines Ruck running is advised against by everyone. But I still do it. I'd call it more of a slow trot. If your gunna do the miles try and do it off road, trails and such. A lot easier said than done in southern CA, I know.

Ever thought about orthopedics for your boots/shoes? Ask WCG175, he's got the worst feet I've ever seen for a man! He has orthos made for his feet and he swears by them.

As for what is not good for your knees...bad PLF's Stay far away from those, far, far away!
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Old 17 January 2009, 17:21
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Originally Posted by rangers snaplink View Post
Freaking Marines Ruck running is advised against by everyone. But I still do it. I'd call it more of a slow trot. If your gunna do the miles try and do it off road, trails and such. A lot easier said than done in southern CA, I know.

Ever thought about orthopedics for your boots/shoes? Ask WCG175, he's got the worst feet I've ever seen for a man! He has orthos made for his feet and he swears by them.

As for what is not good for your knees...bad PLF's Stay far away from those, far, far away!
Dude, my sides hurt. I knew someone was gonna laugh at the nuts part.

I'll hit up WCGG....but I'd have to be jumpin outta planes to fuck up my PLFs





Ex and CAPMARINE, thanks for the advice.
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Old 17 January 2009, 19:22
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Knee Pain.....LOL!

Welcome to the real World! Knee pain is often the name of the game.....more so when your are over 30.

To answer your question about orthotics.....they often will help with all sorts of pain (feet, ankles, knees, lower back....etc) and are well worth the money. In my case...they keep my feet from breaking. I have REALLY high arches (any of you think you have high arches? You ain't got shit, let me tell ya). There are many great foot specialists that can make custom insert for your shoes/boots. Best case is to have a pair made for your running shoes and another for your boots. But that can get a little spendy....I've made do with just one pair.

The advice thus far given is good and sound.

Now IMHO (and I'm not a doctor) and not knowing exactly where your pain is, there are a few basic things you can do that should help

First, cut back a little on all the running, swimming and rucking! Let your kness rest a bit. When it comes to running, my opion is that if you can exceed the standard for your age group it's good enough. I mean maxing a run is great and all, but at what cost? Your knees? Not a good trade off if you ask me. If you can, try to run on an all weather track for a while. Also, I was told a long time ago that swimming *CAN* put a good bit of laterial stress on your knees. I know that if I'm swmming a lot my knees tend to hurt (more than usual that is). And just to address the ruck runs, STOP IT! At least for a while. If you go out on a march try to do it on grass/dirt. It you can't march on that, blacktop is better than cement. Basically, just take it easy on all the impact......in ten years, you'll be glad you did. (Also, this advice will help address your calories question in the other thread.)

Second, ice your knees, at the site off pain. Nuff said on that.

Third, strengthen you quads and hamstrings. I know that this has significantly reduced my knee pain. The idea being that strengthening the major leg muscles helps take up the slack in the knees. Leg extenion, leg curl, lunges, squat and dead lift. Nothing too heavy and I'd go a little higher on the reps (but thats just MHO). I know that spending two years in Alaska humping up mountains all day with a ruck did a world of good for my knees. Well, I'm not too sure about that, but my knees did stop hurting all the time! And they still feel good. Anyhow....work on strengthening your major leg muscles.

Lastly, check your footwear. Go to a good runing store and get fitted for a pair of running shoes. If you haven't done this, you'd be amazed at the difference this makes! Check the soles of your footwear on a regular basis. If you find any signs of uneven wear, repair of replace them ASAP.

Hope this helps!


P.S. Stop eating all those nuts! Spending that much time on your knees has got to be hurting them!
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Old 17 January 2009, 19:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCG175 View Post
Knee Pain.....LOL!

Welcome to the real World! Knee pain is often the name of the game.....more so when your are over 30.

To answer your question about orthotics.....they often will help with all sorts of pain (feet, ankles, knees, lower back....etc) and are well worth the money. In my case...they keep my feet from breaking. I have REALLY high arches (any of you think you have high arches? You ain't got shit, let me tell ya). There are many great foot specialists that can make custom insert for your shoes/boots. Best case is to have a pair made for your running shoes and another for your boots. But that can get a little spendy....I've made do with just one pair.

The advice thus far given is good and sound.

Now IMHO (and I'm not a doctor) and not knowing exactly where your pain is, there are a few basic things you can do that should help

First, cut back a little on all the running, swimming and rucking! Let your kness rest a bit. When it comes to running, my opion is that if you can exceed the standard for your age group it's good enough. I mean maxing a run is great and all, but at what cost? Your knees? Not a good trade off if you ask me. If you can, try to run on an all weather track for a while. Also, I was told a long time ago that swimming *CAN* put a good bit of laterial stress on your knees. I know that if I'm swmming a lot my knees tend to hurt (more than usual that is). And just to address the ruck runs, STOP IT! At least for a while. If you go out on a march try to do it on grass/dirt. It you can't march on that, blacktop is better than cement. Basically, just take it easy on all the impact......in ten years, you'll be glad you did. (Also, this advice will help address your calories question in the other thread.)

Second, ice your knees, at the site off pain. Nuff said on that.

Third, strengthen you quads and hamstrings. I know that this has significantly reduced my knee pain. The idea being that strengthening the major leg muscles helps take up the slack in the knees. Leg extenion, leg curl, lunges, squat and dead lift. Nothing too heavy and I'd go a little higher on the reps (but thats just MHO). I know that spending two years in Alaska humping up mountains all day with a ruck did a world of good for my knees. Well, I'm not too sure about that, but my knees did stop hurting all the time! And they still feel good. Anyhow....work on strengthening your major leg muscles.

Lastly, check your footwear. Go to a good runing store and get fitted for a pair of running shoes. If you haven't done this, you'd be amazed at the difference this makes! Check the soles of your footwear on a regular basis. If you find any signs of uneven wear, repair of replace them ASAP.

Hope this helps!


P.S. Stop eating all those nuts! Spending that much time on your knees has got to be hurting them!
Dude, when is the last time you went swimming? Splashing around at Pirates Coves doesn't count

Balls, I totally forgot about leg strengthening, do it! It'll help! I've had one knee surgery and when I stop training legs my knee starts to hurt. Not quite scientific, but enough for me
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  #11  
Old 17 January 2009, 19:57
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Brother, swimming is something I do to prevent drowning.....that's it! Besides....it makes my knees hurt, can you read?
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Old 17 January 2009, 21:08
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If you run with a ruck make sure you have a nice smooth pace or like rangers said, a trot. This goes for all running, find your ideal stride by adjusting and seeing which distance makes you feel the lightest.
You might also want to try performing rehab exercises on your knee, even if it's perfectly find it will help as a preventative measure.
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Old 17 January 2009, 21:34
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i do leg presses and leg extensions,seems to help my knees.i have a natural limp now because of my foot.the whole balance thing i guess.im going to the VA on the 27th they will be making me some shoe inserts.hope they work and help me.
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Old 17 January 2009, 21:59
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The one time I ran an extended (more than a 1/4 mile) period with a ruck, I managed to dislocate my kneecap and face plant (face plant assisted with the ruck hitting me in the back of the head).

I don't do it anymore. (except within the first 1-2 miles just to loosen up the muscle on the front of your shin [Tibialis Anterior])
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Old 18 January 2009, 19:33
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Good stuff. Thanks guys.
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Old 18 January 2009, 23:56
Petey Petey is offline
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Dude stay off the eliptical. The Machine fucked up my knees, and led to back spasms. Nothing in life is replicated by an eliptical except fat ass's de-training themselves.

Squats, Dead lifts, Cleans, Push-Press, Jerks, etc. Develop the knees the way they we're intended.

Lay off the ruck run's. Follow the Crossfitendurance protocol. Those workouts are a ball buster for all you Runner/Triathelons, Marathoner's. They stress form and intensity over long distance. Try some of the workouts, they will smoke you from the inside out. You can also apply ruck marching to the protocol.

All those pills help to an extent, but it seems the majority of your program is distance related, or it keeps you in the Heart Rate zone 40-60% of max but its not really that effective and like miles on a car, the wear and tear begins. I used to be the same way, and I always wondered why my back went out or my knees and back we're killing me.

Do Crossfit and supplement with CrossfitEndurance. I barely run these days. I do it for the Crossfit WOD's and I sometimes run a 5K for shits and giggles.

In Sept I ran the USMC 1/2 Marathon in NC. I did it in 1:40ish. Up to that point I ran only a couple times a week, either a Crossfitendurance, or a 3-4 miler. I did one 9 mile run for shits and giggles around an airfield. I got home and ran the Half and did pretty good for that amount of training.

In Oct, I did a PFT for SNCO Career Course. I ran the 3 mile in 19:51. got 18 perfect dead hangs and 100 crunches. I practice mostly Kipping pull-ups and muscle-ups on the rings, so for almost no dead hang practice 18/20, not bad.

I did the Combat Fitness Test in Dec. I ran the 1/2 mile in boots in utes: 2:47
got 109 ammo can presse's, and a 2:25 on the manuver under fire, 10 seconds from perfect.

All of this from Crossfit. My accomplishments are nothing much to brag about, but every test I take I'm in the top 15% of my peers or competitors. Also did the 3 mile in boot in utes in just under 21:00 minutes, finishing 4th out of 122 students(keep in mind we're a bunch of broke off old timers.)

I do my best to get this across to the youngsters. I wish this was around when I was 21, I'd be an animal of Greek Heroic proporitions.

Petey
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Old 19 January 2009, 22:39
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The elliptical goes both ways, I know people with bad knees that have said the elliptical does not bother them as well as people who say it aggravates injuries.
I agree, with Petey, crossfit is amazing at building working strength, excellent for making real soldiers. I've just finally been able to accomplish muscle ups, it's all about the timing.
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Old 10 February 2009, 19:07
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Doing full cleans, as opposed to hang cleans or power cleans, is a wonder worker. We started these my senior year of highschool and they greatly reduced my incidence of knee injury on the field and decreased recovery time and I took some mean straight shots to the knees. Also will cut down on the time you need for a workout as, when done properly, it works calves, quads, hams, glutes, and full back and shoulders all in one lift.
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Old 10 February 2009, 19:37
Gryfen-FL Gryfen-FL is offline
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+2 on what Petey said.

Crossfitters can get pretty rabid about machines (ie. eliptical and the presses).

My .02 is to ditch the machines entirely! You can google the stuff crossfitters have to say about knee pain. I tend to agree. A proper, full depth, squat will work ALL the muscles that tie into the knee in an even and balanced fashion.

I had shoulder & back pain, probably from doing too many pushups and not enough to work the back. Easy fix.

Saw similar results from getting off the machines and doing squats when my knees were acting up.

Looking into fore-foot running (POSE is another term for it) helped as well.

YMMV
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Old 11 February 2009, 04:38
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I've been doing LOTS more squats, presses, cleans, etc. lately and noticed a HUGE difference. Also cut down on the rucking a bit and followed the advice on running.....I guess there really is no purpose to run 12mi unless you're training for a marathon or half.

Haven't been able to do any crossfit in a couple months because no gym in my area has the equipment (not just rings, but plates, wall-balls, etc.) and I really hate doing half-assed or mix&matched WODs. Just got off the phone with someone who is setting up a CF nearby....and offering Krav Maga!!!!! Can't wait!!!
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Last edited by Balls; 11 February 2009 at 04:43.
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