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Old 10 July 2009, 19:29
Ironside Ironside is offline
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Disappointing day in my life. Need advice...and a hug

I've been training up physically for Selection for the past few months. Just recently I was able to start training with the Selection recruiting team which is comprised of a couple dudes that passed Selection and one guy with a green fuzzy hat and a knee surgery. Well he's been smoking my balls, he doesn't push or demand me to do something, he just gives me a task and I give it my all.

My AVG PT score is usually between 290-300, in fact until I arrived here in Hells wasteland I was able to run mid 12's to 13's but everyone says their run time goes up about a minute and a half or so due to the elevation.

So my last PT test which was a few weeks after I got here was 283, maxing push ups with 103 and sit ups with 87, running 14:30 (slowest time I've ever run...until now)
Today I did a PT test, I'm beat, body aches, can hardly walk, back is killing me from all the rucking but I'm testing as if I were already in Selection so no easy monday morning PT test......definitely not...
Today's shame will haunt me for a long time.
Push ups: 73
Sit ups: 73
Run: 16:45
I FAILED!

Never in my life have I failed a PT test, hell not making 300 on my last PT test was a hard enough blow but this is terrible. I don't know whether my mind or body was quitting on me, I tried to run faster but it wasn't happening.
I know the theory behind dissociation but does anyone have any tips to help me get into that mode?

Thanks for hearing my sob story, I'll pick up the hugs Sunday when I go and run the local mountain road, twice.


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  #2  
Old 10 July 2009, 19:42
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Are you certain you are fine medically?
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  #3  
Old 10 July 2009, 19:49
Ironside Ironside is offline
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Yea, the biggest thing was cramps EVERYWHERE and no Energy. Calves mainly but also low back, arms, shoulders, quads, etc. Just all out beat. Going to rest/hydrate/eat well all of Saturday and hit it hard Sunday.
Right now I have my calves wrapped to help them heal and as a preventative measure towards shin splints.
Over all I think I may have been able to push myself a little harder but I'm worried about breaking myself prior to Selection next month.
I'm going to take another PT test possibly next Friday, the rest of next week will be finding where my true limitation is. I'm going to push through the pain and find the point where my body quits before my mind, hence running the mountain twice (total of 12 miles).
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Old 10 July 2009, 19:56
Gryfen-FL Gryfen-FL is offline
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What has your workout / recovery schedule been in the weeks leading up to this effort?

Some of what you said rings a bell or two for overtraining. I would humbly suggest that you take a good hard, honest, look and make sure you have given yourself adequate rest / recovery periods in the time leading up to this.

If the answer is 'no', a further push through the next week will only cause a further degradation in performance. You should probably be talking to a competent sports trainier right now.
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  #5  
Old 10 July 2009, 20:00
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Take the runs long and slow, don't attack them in training.
(Attack them only at the PT test).
Where is "the elevation?"
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Old 10 July 2009, 20:06
SIERRA_339 SIERRA_339 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryfen-FL View Post
What has your workout / recovery schedule been in the weeks leading up to this effort?

Some of what you said rings a bell or two for overtraining. I would humbly suggest that you take a good hard, honest, look and make sure you have given yourself adequate rest / recovery periods in the time leading up to this.

If the answer is 'no', a further push through the next week will only cause a further degradation in performance. You should probably be talking to a competent sports trainier right now.
X2 on the Over training and some of it may be elevation. It took about a week for my body to adjust when I went from sea level to 8k feet in Mexico City.

Rest, good food a good sports massage.

Works for me and I'm old.

IMHO
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Last edited by SIERRA_339; 10 July 2009 at 20:09.
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  #7  
Old 10 July 2009, 20:22
Ironside Ironside is offline
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Yea it feels like over training to me as well but I'm not sure if it's that or that I just need to recondition as it's been a while since I've exercised like this.
Background on me:
I took a 2 1/2 year break in service, before that break I ran a Marathon and was always top of PT. Rucking 12 miles with 75lbs was a joke. After I got out in 2006 I became a personal trainer, exercised regularly, mostly weights but some mild cardio.

This is pretty much how I've worked out the past 2 weeks.

Week 1:
Mon Morning: Gym day, all light weight exercises: front squats, squat thrusts, deadlifts, good mornings, muscle ups, pull ups w/ 90lbs, hand stand push ups, etc.
Mon Night: Chest/Tri, standard barbell/dumbell/cable set. Pretty heavy.

Tues Morning: Ran 2 miles, did some pull ups, sit ups, rope climbs than ran 2 miles back
Tues Night: Back/Bi, deadlifts, BOR, rack pulls, back flies, bicep stuff

Wedn Morning: Company 'fun' run, ran 6-7 miles at an extremely slow pace. (this is where my calves first begun hurting)
Wedn Night: OFF!

Thurs Morning: Run 3 1/2 miles to the pool, do variations of swimming for 1 hour, run 1 mile back and finish with pull ups 5,4,3,2,1 dipsx40
Thurs Night: Shoudlers, handstand sit ups

Fri: off

Sat Morning: Swimming 40 min, than pool closed due to lightning
Sat Night: Chest
PT 530-800:

Sun: Off

Week 2: During the day I was doing CLS classes, Thurs I did some litter carries/pulls through an obstacle course with a 290lb guy on a sked and a Talon 2. I enjoyed it.

Mon: No PT, compromised by rucking around my company for 2 hours w/ 55lb ruck.

Tues: Run 3 1/2 miles to the pool (ran in 22:30), did variations of swimming for 1 hour, run 1 mile back and finish with pull ups 5,4,3,2,1 dips x 40

Wednesday: Ruck ruck up mountain 3 miles, down 3 miles. 55lbs. Rucksack strap broke near the end so I ended up carrying it and running down hill (hate running down).

(Calves begun hurting again the next morning)

Thurs Easy day: Run 1 mile to the pool, do variations of swimming for about an hour, run 1 mile back, finish with pull ups 5,4,3,2,1 dips 40

Fri: PT Test (Enter failure here)
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  #8  
Old 10 July 2009, 20:30
Ironside Ironside is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIERRA_339 View Post
X2 on the Over training and some of it may be elevation. It took about a week for my body to adjust when I went from sea level to 8k feet in Mexico City.

Rest, good food a good sports massage.

Works for me and I'm old.

IMHO
Damn, I wish I could do that in a week. I had elevation sickness the first few weeks here, allot of people tend to get it here even though the elevation isn't insanely high. I believe it has something to do with the extreme dryness of this forbidden land.

I grew up in low elevation (18 ft in FL) and was stationed at Fort Benning for my Military Career which is also low at 320ft or so. Now I'm at 4000 ft here in El Paso. First month breathing was like fire, now it's easier to breath but the running speed still isn't there and I notice I fatigue quicker than I did in FL. My heart rate has decreased since living here to 46-49bpm from 55-58. Again, I was told by almost everyone who's been stationed here that you'll drop at least 1 min off your run time anywhere else. Let's hope that's the case.

Still I feel like such a piece of shit, 17min is not acceptable. I got passed by the fat kid with an inhaler!
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Old 10 July 2009, 21:36
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I'll parrot the comment about the possibility of overtraining.

Regarding the calves there are two possible treatments you could look into that have worked for me in the past.
1. Acupuncture. It doesn't work for everyone but it doesn't hurt to try.
2. Compression socks. You'll look like a complete tool wearing them, but the only other thing that compare are compression running tights and no man should wear those in public. I wear compression tights on my long runs because my calves tend to get the brunt of it when I'm in a hilly area and I can last for hours with them.
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Old 10 July 2009, 21:46
Ironside Ironside is offline
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Funny you said that, I actually had acupuncture for the first time yesterday, not much success there.
I never tried running in compression socks. I just took wrappings off my legs a few min ago and they feel much better. I have no shame, I have one shaved leg right now because I wanted to see if I could feel a difference while swimming.
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Old 11 July 2009, 00:15
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Dude, you are overtraining. Take 3 days off, rest and recover.

Or break yourself off...its up to you.

Fine line between being hard and stupid.
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Old 11 July 2009, 00:25
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Throw your training schedule in the trash dude.

Listen to YOUR BODY. It will let you know if you are overtaining, and it just did. Listen to your body.
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Old 11 July 2009, 03:47
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When you are cramping like that, it may indicate that you are over-hydrating, and washing the electrolytes out of your system. I would never advise someone to "drink less," but I will tell you to take some bananas with you, or to eat an orange while you are rucking. There is nothing wrong with an energy bar. Generally speaking, it is not common for a young, healthy male to suffer ill-effects from drinking too much water. The healthy body handles it. For older folks.... it can be a problem, or it may be an indicator that something else is amiss, health-wise.

Now that I think about it, you could even be suffering from dehydration. Something is amiss with your fluid intake, and your diet. It could be a kidney issue. You may want to get some blood work done and have your urine checked to see if you are suffering from ketosis.

Remember that you are in training now. This is not yet the main event. It is good to "train as you will fight," but you also have to pay attention to your body, and your body is either telling you that it is not being fed correctly, it is not being hydrated correctly, or you have something wrong with you. I do not think that this is just a matter of conditioning. I think that something else is amiss. Generally, young healthy folks cope with altitude fairly well, and fairly quickly. A week is generally enough. Two weeks is usually plenty of time if you are fit.

You do not say anything about your diet, but you may want to include some gatorade or some other electrolyte replenishment liquid into your intake.

When was the last time that you ran any good distance? You mention marathons in the past, but have you continued running distances? Or have you switched over mostly to gym work-outs? You may just need to mellow out on the weights and do some long slow runs.

Someone needs to vector USSFPA to this thread. He can definitely help here. Or Terrible Ted.

m.
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Old 11 July 2009, 08:35
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Everyone here that is a BTDT has run through your scenario. You have our permission to rest. Sore muscles and aches and pains will heal with rest and proper nutrition. Stupid is forever.
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Old 11 July 2009, 10:42
Ironside Ironside is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRS Guy View Post
Fine line between being hard and stupid.
I always liked the saying "There's a fine line between hard and retard" myself :)

Yea I'll take two days off. My training schedule isn't perfect but I try to work with what the SOF recruiters are having me do while giving it 100%.

It's funny, I have 3 certifications as a personal trainer and 1 as a nutritional consultant. When I look back at my training I can see what I'm doing wrong but for some reason it's hard for me to be easy on myself. If I were my own client I would say exactly what you all said but when it's me training myself I just want to keep pushing to the limit.
My plan was to stop 7-10 days out from selection and not do any PT, just concentrate on loading my body full of nutrients and hydrating well.


Diet is ok, I eat a Banana every morning at 445 to replenish glycogen stores so I don't do catabolic from early morning PT at 530.
Hydration should be fine, I eat allot of sodium. Thoughout the day I usually snack on salted almonds. I'll try adding a Gatorade into the mix each day just to see how it works.

So, errrr. I'll take Sat AND Sun off. Give my body a chance for recovery and Monday I'll be back at it again full force. Maybe a 5 day split this time, hard days no extra PT in the afternoon and easy days extra PT.
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Old 11 July 2009, 20:11
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relax, rest, recover, eat well!! great job and best of luck to you when the big test comes!
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  #17  
Old 11 July 2009, 22:34
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You may want to have the docs at the unit take urine and blood samples from you after you complete a challenging iteration, just to check your values.

It might save you a lot of grief when you go to selection.
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  #18  
Old 12 July 2009, 00:32
Ironside Ironside is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magician View Post
You may want to have the docs at the unit take urine and blood samples from you after you complete a challenging iteration, just to check your values.

It might save you a lot of grief when you go to selection.
What will they be looking for in urine/blood?
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  #19  
Old 12 July 2009, 01:02
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Lightbulb Sounds like you....

CHOKED!!!! I've taken PT test "drunk" after being out all night drinking and passed.

It is what it is and if you keep beating yourself up over it...it'll stay the same.

FIDO and take the test again.

Stay safe.
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  #20  
Old 12 July 2009, 05:41
Mgo79 Mgo79 is offline
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For what its worth I always tried not to work out for 2 days before any PT test.
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