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  #41  
Old 20 April 2008, 13:13
BlackAdam01 BlackAdam01 is offline
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3 to 1 huh? Well that could explain it too I guess. We are 6 on to 1 off. Cross Fit (lite) and 5k,swim and other stuff. Thanks OOC.
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  #42  
Old 20 April 2008, 13:19
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Originally Posted by Outofcontrol View Post
Believer...Im bringing a set of rings with me! Lets do it!
Sweet, I'm there. You know how to reach me when you hit the ground. I've never worked on rings before...that should suck in a whole new way.
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  #43  
Old 20 April 2008, 14:29
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CF

Chubs...I couldnt agree more...well put.

BA...Thats great...that is what CF is designed to do...INTEGRATE into whatever program you are doing already.

Believer...you have no idea...:)

OOC, out
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  #44  
Old 20 April 2008, 15:31
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Originally Posted by BlackAdam01 View Post
3 to 1 huh? Well that could explain it too I guess. We are 6 on to 1 off....
check out www.crossfit.com to know the WOD and when the rest day is -- no reason to be hurting for nothing....
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  #45  
Old 21 April 2008, 17:04
poison poison is offline
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I really need to just start doing only CF. I've incorporated elements into my workouts for a while now, but I need to make the full switch. I just started judo, though, and I wonder how it would affect that?
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  #46  
Old 21 April 2008, 17:33
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Poison,
At the risk of inciting the crossfitters......

Keep in mind that your strength levels are going to decrease. You spend more time working with sub maximal wt's than you do with wt's that are conducive to maintaining or gaining strength.

For you and anyone who is starting out in a new combative art this isn't really a problem since technique should be your main priority right now. At some point you will want to work on strength to complement your technique and fitness level.
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  #47  
Old 21 April 2008, 19:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbullet
Keep in mind that your strength levels are going to decrease. You spend more time working with sub maximal wt's than you do with wt's that are conducive to maintaining or gaining strength....
I admit you lost me on this one....
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  #48  
Old 21 April 2008, 20:15
Gryfen-FL Gryfen-FL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOTB
I admit you lost me on this one....
No shit, here I am: I know people who honestly thing 'strength' means teardrops in the quads, and horse shoes in the triceps....but that's only one extreme end of the spectrum.

Question is, what application are you going to put your 'strength' towards?

If I had to guess, I'd agree with SB. Following the WOD would cause someone who'd trained specifically for 1RM to see a decrease in their numbers for isolation exercises...curls 'n stuff like that.

But Judo doesn't seem to have a lot of isolation stuff. I'm more familiar with BJJ, and the only 'isolation curl' I need to do is lifting my water jug. As long as that isn't my 1RM, I'll be a happy camper.

Conversely, Body Builders don't need to shrimp out from under a 200lb hair-palmed-gorilla.

Last edited by Gryfen-FL; 21 April 2008 at 20:25. Reason: Spellcheck is my friend....just not my [b]best[/b] friend.
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  #49  
Old 21 April 2008, 20:20
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I am the farthest from an expert in Crossfit as you could imagine...just an interested masochist. :D

I would imagine you might see substantial benefit in Judo from the increased core strength and stability, as well as complex body movements.

On Silverbullet's post, I could see how a brutally strong gym dude might decrease in 1RM strength. I've only gotten stronger so far...but I was a little scrawny to start with.
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  #50  
Old 21 April 2008, 20:31
mdb23 mdb23 is offline
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
I admit you lost me on this one....
Me too. Not trying to argue with you SB, but what criteria are you using for measuring "strength?"

I think that I am considerably stronger, more durable, and have more muscular endurance than ever before.

Two years ago, I couldn't have completed "Elizabeth" to save my life. Now I do it for time.How is that not indicative of an increase in strength?

Are you talking about a decrease in 1RM of bench press or squats?
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  #51  
Old 21 April 2008, 21:02
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I think it's also worth mentioning that it is possible to maintain if not increase your strength levels (1RM) while following Crossfit. I think some people get wrapped up in the idea that CF is just a wide variety of lifts done on a random basis. Crossfit has a lot of principles that can be moved around in order to address certain concerns/areas of focus. Out of shape, include more metcon work. Low absolute strength levels, add in more power workouts. While a traditional CF split may not be conducive to strength gains when compared to something like WSB, but to say you'll lose strength isn't necessarily correct either.

Last edited by Chubs; 21 April 2008 at 21:12.
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  #52  
Old 21 April 2008, 21:35
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I'm not talking about a decrease in a 1 RM but that would be effected as well if that was something you ever trained for. We can use the 3-5RM since this is more of a test of strength that is accepted in the athletic world.

Getting better at completing the WOD or seeing increased muscularity is not an indication of strength. Anyone is getting "stronger" off of the WOD probably started from a strength deficient level to begin with.

Additionally this is incorrect as well:

Quote:
Following the WOD would cause someone who'd trained specifically for 1RM to see a decrease in their numbers for isolation exercises...curls 'n stuff like that.
Those that train for 1 RM, such as powerlifters and olympic style lifters do not focus on isolation exercises at all. They also do a different protocol entirely.

I'm addressing the the fact that very few CF'ers use anywhere close to BW on the core lifts let alone the 2x or 2.5 of BW that is a level of strength most could reach with a few yrs of training under their belt.

So while CF is a good protocol for fitness, etc...it will not allow you to build or keep a level of strength that is considered strength and not just power output measured in reps/time/speed, etc...like most of CF is.

Judo, specifically requires very powerful legs, hips lower back and obliques, just like BJJ does. All things being equal the stronger guy who can properly apply that strength is going to win. Being able to whip through the different WOD with a high level of intensity is great but it won't give you this strength to keep up with those that are stronger than you. It shows you can do the WOD and have a good base of fitness.

How many CF'ers come anywhere close to using their BW on power cleans? How many squat even 1.5 % of their BW on any type of regular basis? Not many. Moving little WT's fast is still moving little WT's

I accept CF as a protocol. It is one of the many protocols that can be used to reach a good level of fitness. It has nothing do with strength.
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  #53  
Old 21 April 2008, 22:06
PsYcHo16 PsYcHo16 is offline
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Its great! I really enjoy starting my day off with a 3 mile run and then doing some crossfit! Then lifting after work 4 days a week......along with hockey, Im in the best shape of my life! I really got into it a few years ago at a new team house we set up, we didnt have any weights at the time, nor a gym. So we were kinda limited, one of the guys broke out a set of rings, and then I haven't stopped since.

Never again will I deploy without a set of power rings!
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  #54  
Old 21 April 2008, 22:16
mdb23 mdb23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Silverbullet View Post
Getting better at completing the WOD or seeing increased muscularity is not an indication of strength.
I guess it is a matter of perspective. Who is stronger, the guy who can bench 350 lbs once, but can't chin himself to save his life, or the dude who can bench 250, chin himself 25 times, sprint 400 meters, then do it again, and again, and again... I know which type of strength I am shooting for.

I worked out the other day with a detective who is really into powerlifting. He weighs 315, can bench about 400... he couldn't get through one round of CF without going into muscle failure. I don't strive for his type of "strength."

I am pleased with the results that crossfit has given me. I am leaner than I have been since HS, I can do more chin ups, push ups, dips, etc., than I have ever been able to do before, and it took more time off of my run than any of the sprint interval training that I have done in the past. I practice jujitsu, and my endurance and performance has skyrocketed since starting CF.

it works for me. May not for everyone, but I dig it. Beats the hell out of the "cardio 3x a week, lift 5x," BS that I did for 15 years.

Results may vary.
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  #55  
Old 21 April 2008, 22:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbullet View Post

How many CF'ers come anywhere close to using their BW on power cleans? How many squat even 1.5 % of their BW on any type of regular basis? Not many. Moving little WT's fast is still moving little WT's

I accept CF as a protocol. It is one of the many protocols that can be used to reach a good level of fitness. It has nothing do with strength.
I'm not sure how familiar you are with a lot of the ideas behind CF but it is more than what is found on the front page of cf.com. Focus can be shifted towards increasing strength (3-5RM). A buddy of mine owns CFFredericton and has actually made some pretty good progress with a split based around maintaining his strength levels while increasing his metcon.
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  #56  
Old 21 April 2008, 22:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbullet
I accept CF as a protocol. It is one of the many protocols that can be used to reach a good level of fitness. It has nothing do with strength.
I'm not any SME on exercise, but I read just as much as the next guy on the things that interest me. CF interests me for a variety of reasons -- not the least is the amount of time I have to work out now.

I see lots of people -- even myself included -- that that are reporting on the CF site moving BW or multiples of during the WODs. Heck, this happens quite a lot during a single month. In regards to "strength" (here is the definition that I liken strength to, for reference of those reading the thread and interested in my starting point of discussion: the ability of a person or animal to exert force on physical objects using muscles), there are quite a few posters on the CF WOD that report some pretty impressive numbers. Many of the WODs specifically request that you move a maximum weight, and the connectivity between exercise iterations for comparison demonstrate that there is as much of an interest of the CF site builders in "strength" as they have in "endurance." That they believe there can be a marriage of these two, and hence a higher level of productivity/performance for the individual practicing this type of workout, doesn't -- IMO -- demonstrate that they are not interested in strength.

At the same time, I do agree that there is a difference between physical strength and physical endurance. I also think it is illogical to argue that CF does not lean towards endurance over strength (or at least as much) -- but while there are a number of people whom are not going to find themselves seeing as much improvement in the strength area over endurance, the core exercise standards in CF -- as measured by such WODs as the CF Total (Squat, Deadlift, Press (Shoulder-Press)) show both a focus of CF on strength as well as prodding the CF practitioner to demonstrate returns on strength exercising. Furthermore, from what I have read on CF, the general consensus is that people that come from strength backgrounds are more readily adept at practicing CF than people from endurance backgrounds. As written on that site, there is really no manner for a person without a high degree of strength to perform "Diane."

Anyway, that was a long-winded reply to state I still disagree with SB on the comment about strength -- it should NOT be confused with my supposedly knowing anything about this topic....
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  #57  
Old 21 April 2008, 23:55
smp52 smp52 is offline
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I'm a noob when it comes to this stuff, but I hope y'all can entertain this question: Wouldn't a Strongman routine (flipping tractor tires, log press, pulling a truck, farmers walk, etc) be a better set of exercises for strength with endurance, while a crossfit routine be better in improving endurance with some strength? Or are they simply two sides of the same coin?
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  #58  
Old 22 April 2008, 00:58
JRB11 JRB11 is offline
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What I like best about CF is that gives you functional strength. I've never been to a fire where I laid on my back and had to do 5reps of BP, but I have had to grab a gas powered fan and chainsaw, throw an air pack, run to the front door, start the fan, climb a ladder and cut multiple holes. I've never felt batter after doing CF for only 8 mos, and I'm 47. Although by Bench press is way down, my overhead presses and squats are way up, along with my overall core stability-my back has never felt stronger and less pain, even though I've got a bulging disc. I think SB is right that if I were to stay motivated and concentrate on certain muscle groups day in and day out, I may be stronger by that definition, but for me, the functional strength has gone way up, and it gets addictive.
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  #59  
Old 22 April 2008, 02:01
poison poison is offline
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Ooo, this blew up. I'll read it tomorrow, but i think I see what SB is saying. Hmm.
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  #60  
Old 22 April 2008, 02:52
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I think after all this time reading Crossfit threads, you guys have finally convinced me to give it a shot (albeit a modified version, due to lack of some of the equipment). By the way, this thread has more confusing acronyms than any military manual I've ever read. Don't you fitness types speak English? :D

Someone mentioned swimming earlier... In my own tiny little humble opinion (I'm no fitness guru, this is based on my own past experience), swimming is one of the best and most underrated fat burning and stamina building exercises around. I've never been leaner in my life than when I was swimming every day. I'm curious why more personal trainers and PT programs don't seem to place any emphasis on it (obviously I'm talking about situations where it's a real possiblity, such as a gym with a pool).
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