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Old 3 July 2012, 20:15
OppressorsBeware175 OppressorsBeware175 is offline
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TV Episode About RASP on Discovery

Discovery Channel's series "Hell and Back: Special Ops" is doing a feature entitled "Ranger," focusing primarily on the Ranger Assessment and Selection Program on the eve of July 8th and the 15th. Ought to be interesting for those who haven't seen the new program, and to see how Discovery handles the material.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-schedule....403.26554.0.0

Apologies if this has been covered/posted elsewhere on the site. I searched and didn't see it if it was.
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Old 3 July 2012, 20:43
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Any idea of which class?
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Old 4 July 2012, 14:10
OppressorsBeware175 OppressorsBeware175 is offline
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I've no details other than what discovery posted. I don't have any colleagues working up there these days.
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Old 5 July 2012, 08:36
Brian1/75 Brian1/75 is offline
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It's class 5-12. And apparently 90% of those studs passed.
http://www.soc.mil/UNS/Releases/2012/July/120703-02.html
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Old 5 July 2012, 09:26
Grim_RGR Grim_RGR is offline
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91 out of 114 seems a little high to me. Who knows, maybe it was one of the classes full of studs you always hear about.
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Old 7 July 2012, 20:20
OppressorsBeware175 OppressorsBeware175 is offline
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90% passed??? When I went through, it was like 80% didn't make it!
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Old 8 July 2012, 18:26
OppressorsBeware175 OppressorsBeware175 is offline
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One of my buddies who was a former RASP NCOIC made this comment on the topic " The roughly thirty percent this doesn't make it are either for medical reasons or failed an event. Quitting is definitely not a common theme in rasp anymore. It's all about professionalizing the force. Not to be confused with being soft on them. Rasp is still a difficult course that has gates throughout that each candidate has to pass in order to continue. Instead of hitting the woodline a hundred times in cole range we do other events that you will see in the show tonight. I had a blast when I was working there and even more fun when we filmed the show. Battalion is definitely getting a better product because of rasp." And again:

" I just noticed that the way I said things is a little confusing. The graduation rate is at 70 percent. When I started working there the graduation rate was around 30-40 percent (sometimes worst). The candidates that show up are a lot better for several reasons. 1) very few actually show up with rasp contracts because we don't give that many out. (good because anyone was able to get a rasp contract) 2) the majority of the students volunteer for rasp in basic or airborne school. The plus side to that is that we have ranger NCOs plugged in in key areas that helps individuals early in the process. We have an nco that works at sand hill, one at airborne, and various others throughout the states. 3) the e5s that show up have been recruited therefore chances are they are good to go. 4) pre-rasp is a key part to the whole process because there is where the initial "weeding" out process starts. Rasp has recorded data on just about everything to see what type of person graduates and which one doesn't therefore for example, If we only have enough room in regiment for 60 people we can start 65 because we know that we can hit our mark. Which is better than in the past where we started 165 in hopes of graduating 40. In the end we want to start and graduate the right guy and not waste our time at battalion to rfs later down the road"

Hope that clears it up.
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Old 8 July 2012, 20:55
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Originally Posted by OppressorsBeware175 View Post
One of my buddies who was a former RASP NCOIC made this comment on the topic " The roughly thirty percent this doesn't make it are either for medical reasons or failed an event. Quitting is definitely not a common theme in rasp anymore. It's all about professionalizing the force. Not to be confused with being soft on them. Rasp is still a difficult course that has gates throughout that each candidate has to pass in order to continue. Instead of hitting the woodline a hundred times in cole range we do other events that you will see in the show tonight. I had a blast when I was working there and even more fun when we filmed the show. Battalion is definitely getting a better product because of rasp." And again:

" I just noticed that the way I said things is a little confusing. The graduation rate is at 70 percent. When I started working there the graduation rate was around 30-40 percent (sometimes worst). The candidates that show up are a lot better for several reasons. 1) very few actually show up with rasp contracts because we don't give that many out. (good because anyone was able to get a rasp contract) 2) the majority of the students volunteer for rasp in basic or airborne school. The plus side to that is that we have ranger NCOs plugged in in key areas that helps individuals early in the process. We have an nco that works at sand hill, one at airborne, and various others throughout the states. 3) the e5s that show up have been recruited therefore chances are they are good to go. 4) pre-rasp is a key part to the whole process because there is where the initial "weeding" out process starts. Rasp has recorded data on just about everything to see what type of person graduates and which one doesn't therefore for example, If we only have enough room in regiment for 60 people we can start 65 because we know that we can hit our mark. Which is better than in the past where we started 165 in hopes of graduating 40. In the end we want to start and graduate the right guy and not waste our time at battalion to rfs later down the road"

Hope that clears it up.


If that's true I am glad of it. But I will admit it is hard to swallow. I dont care where they came from or what they did before, until they were pushed to their limits and then pushed beyond, you never knew who would make it and who would not. That high of a graduation rate is just hard to believe. Maybe they have created a better system these days. Having worked with them plenty overseas in last few years I definitely have not seen anything that would lead me to believe that the quality or standards have dropped so I guess they are doing it right.
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Old 8 July 2012, 21:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OppressorsBeware175
....pre-rasp is a key part to the whole process because there is where the initial "weeding" out process starts....
That makes a lot of sense. I'm sure that the thought process for many courses is similar (or exactly the same) for the different services. In the Corps, I remember reading the criteria for "Pre" courses, and it was that the course should be run to the degree that it was 1.5X more difficult than the actual course.

I won't blow any smoke and state that pre-SCUBA was a "better" course than SCUBA, but the only guy from my group who didn't pass my SCUBA class was the LT who didn't go through pre-SCUBA.

If you guys are pushing the weeding out stuff to the pre-course, and leaving the real course for actual learning, well -- that makes sense. Hell, you could argue that your pre-course is simply stage one of the whole course....
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Old 8 July 2012, 21:53
OppressorsBeware175 OppressorsBeware175 is offline
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Another quote from my buddy: "Here is the scary part, when I tell you the attrition rate everyone in bn thinks that everyone is graduating (their mentality for the most part is the even the quitters or POS's will graduate). Over 70 percent that starts will graduate. It isn't that everyone can graduate now, simply we are starting the classes with the right people in it. The students get vetted in pre-rasp and have to meet certain pre-reqs before they can start a rasp class. Reason I posted this is because that way people can know that we did not church it up for discovery channel. What you see in the show is what you will see in rasp."
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Old 8 July 2012, 22:47
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Maybe I missed something on the show, but it appeared that they were saying the first week was an admin week. Isn't that where PT test, swim test, and other things are done? If they consider that admin, maybe they are not counting the first week fails. The first guys on the show to be removed were from night land nav.
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Old 8 July 2012, 23:52
OppressorsBeware175 OppressorsBeware175 is offline
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When I went through RIP in 04, the PT test happened prior to entry into the course as a prerequisite.
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Old 9 July 2012, 00:56
Grim_RGR Grim_RGR is offline
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In '07 it was 70% to get in and 80% to graduate. The second PT test was on the first day of week 4. The 12 miler was also in week 4. The ruck out to cole range was only 8. It's a damn shame there was no one hitting the tree line, but Martinez's one liners where entertainment enough.
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Old 9 July 2012, 01:38
OppressorsBeware175 OppressorsBeware175 is offline
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Here's some of my buddy's thoughts on the low attrition rate (He was the NCOIC of the program). This is in response to an article circulating about the "Plummeting standards of RASP," something I haven't observed to be true:

Everyone wants to see 200 start and 20 finish because that makes them feel "Special". Well being a good Ranger is what made me "Special". Having good leaders is what makes us "Special". I am curious to know when the writer graduated rip. Here is the part that the writer failed to mention. First, so called PFC A graduated from RIP meaning that RIP was not in any way developing great Rangers. Second, the RFS numbers speak for themselves. A high percentage of all RIP graduates were RFS'ed within two years for one reason or the other. There has only been a handful of RFS's that RASP has produced. By the way RASP has been around for nearly two years now. Thirdly, this whole article wreaks of, "I was in the last hard RIP class". The writer does not understand the big picture. The big picture is not about numbers. It is about having the right person in the right spot. Pre-RASP is an awesome program and it does a lot more than raise the graduating rate by 10% (on the high end). Here is another part that the writer failed to include, how many people quit Pre-RASP on a daily basis. I can even count how many times I will call Pre-RASP and ask them about how many guys is RASP picking up for the next class and they would say, "X number just quit today and 17 out the 40 airborne students we picked up today quit".
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Old 9 July 2012, 06:21
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
That makes a lot of sense. I'm sure that the thought process for many courses is similar (or exactly the same) for the different services. In the Corps, I remember reading the criteria for "Pre" courses, and it was that the course should be run to the degree that it was 1.5X more difficult than the actual course.

I won't blow any smoke and state that pre-SCUBA was a "better" course than SCUBA, but the only guy from my group who didn't pass my SCUBA class was the LT who didn't go through pre-SCUBA.

If you guys are pushing the weeding out stuff to the pre-course, and leaving the real course for actual learning, well -- that makes sense. Hell, you could argue that your pre-course is simply stage one of the whole course....


That does make a lot of sense. I feel better about it after watching the show.
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For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
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Old 9 July 2012, 06:22
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To me sounds like they are doing it waaaaaay better.

When I started RIP we had some 300 idiots and well over 50% should have never started.... Which is why they dropped like flys in the 3 weeks we were there as hold-overs. Which obviously turned into "pre-RIP".

I don't recall how many we finally started with, but in the end only 87 of us were standing.... I'd probably have to agree that only 100 or so should have ever started.

If they're getting good, tough bastards, then good on them. I have a hard time believing a bunch of pussies are getting in.

Times have totally fucking changed....not sure what happened, I mean, I don't feel old...okay well maybe a little.
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Old 9 July 2012, 06:24
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A high percentage of all RIP graduates were RFS'ed within two years for one reason or the other.


That was very true in my time. We started with 140 and graduated 41 IIRC. And that was a big class. IIRC there were about a dozen of us that went to 3/75. After just one year less than half of us were still there.
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Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
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Old 9 July 2012, 07:21
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The Discovery Channel RASP show, last night, was really interesting. I did not know about that program. I guess that makes me way old (Scroll, that is....).

Looks like the program is both educational and pretty selective and that is good.

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Old 9 July 2012, 07:54
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Times have totally fucking changed....not sure what happened, I mean, I don't feel old...okay well maybe a little.
No shit there Brother..............
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Old 9 July 2012, 08:07
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I saw the show last night and I was impressed.

I wish this is what we had done when we started Regimental RIP in 1985.

Not that we didn't do a good job at RIP, but the fact that every one of those guys that put on their beret at the end of the show could easily assimilate into any squad in the Regiment, and deploy tonight, fully prepared and trained makes me jealous.

God Bless every one of them!
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