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  #1  
Old 11 February 2006, 10:56
smc smc is offline
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Psyop Question

I posted this in another thread but I think everyone started ignoring that thread as the other question was answered, so I figured i'd repost it to see if I get any response.

I am currently E5 11B in the National Guard. I have thought about moving over to the reserves for psyops, but I wasn't sure how the selection worked for it. The second thing is, I don't know the MOS distinction but I know there are guys that go out into the villages and whatnot, and the guys who make the propaganda (excuse my bad terminology). I am interested in going out on the patrols and such, not so much in making propaganda or radio stuff (again I don't know how much about this) although I would be willing to do that as well. Can anyone point me in the right direction on what MOS and what I need to do to get into the Psyops world in the reserves (aside from I know I need conditional release and acceptance into the unit). If anyone is in the reserves and in a Psyop unit in Illinois that would be of even greater help Thanks in advance.
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Old 11 February 2006, 20:35
james13f james13f is offline
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If you only want to go out and "do" patrols, why don't you just stay 11b?

I'm not a 37f, but I haven't seen anything that would preclude you from transfering, I don't think there is a "selection"....you should already have a security clearance.

Your local Army Reserve recruiter should be able to inform you of the nearest Psyops units.

You would get a lot of info on the Psyop's duties/responsibilities if you utilized the "search" feature.
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Old 12 February 2006, 15:41
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Well i'd actually like to do more than patrolling, but good point about staying 11B. I've found a good bit of information on 37F but mostly recruiting materials for job descriptions, and we all know how accurate those can be sometimes. I guess I was just looking for some insight from people who actually do the job, and not the guy who writes the manual for recruiting command. I'll search more here and see what I can find, thanks for the reply.
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Old 14 February 2006, 00:16
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Your 11B experience will be plenty welcome in PSYOP. And yes, you'll get to do lots of patrols mingling and interacting with the local populace. After all, that's what we do. But if you still have the hard core grunt mentality, PSYOP probably isn't for you. Our best weapons are our mouth and our ears. Can't be jittery and trigger happy, gotta know how the culture works and when to *really* get worried.

You'll need a secret clearance and you'll have to take the DLAB. The PSYOP unit can take care of those.

I love it.
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Old 14 February 2006, 14:21
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If you want to know a little about what we do, search my posts and those of jtorak28 as well as some of the other PSYOP Soldiers here.

Read all the psyop threads in this section.

Quite frankly, if you are not interested in doing the meat of our job, don't waste the units time or yours. You won't like it, and it won't like you.

Every psyop unit benefits when soldiers come from other MOS's and bring fresh perspective and outside experience whether it is combat arms or not.

Every Tactical PSYOP unit has teams that go out and conduct tactical psyop missions, from direct surrender appeals, to louspeaker harrassment, to handing out leaflets. But the job doesn't end there. In order to be good at that job you have to understand how the information is compiled, prepared, and presented. We are more than trained monkeys handing out newspapers while looking for a firefight.

The Commander of the maneuver unit you will be supporting is looking to you for input on the mind of the enemy and the non-combatants in his battle-space, and how best to exploit weaknesses and vulnerabilities in order to make his mission a success and save American lives. If 2 out of 5 potential bad guys lay down their guns as a result of our work, that means fewer people shooting at us and increases the effectiveness of fires by the maneuver element. We are Combat Multipliers.

Though our primary function is not to close with, engage, and destroy the enemy, you still had better be able to shoot, move, and communicate, as you may move from Primary function as a PSYOPer to secondary function as a shooter with very little notice.

You may find yourself working in a Product Development Cell. Though not as "glamorous" as being on a Tactical Psyop Team, the TPT has damn little purpose without the products made by the PDC. We cannot do the voodoo we do without it.

As one becomes more expert at the application of PSYOP, their usefulness increases in the realm of product development.

As a corrolary: Just being proficient in all sorts of weapons does not an 18B make. Their mission is much more than just DA. SF Soldiers are, above all else, expert teachers.

So if one is not interested in spending time with and getting to know a foreign people, and teaching them, SF is probably not the best career choice.

The first word in "Tactical PSYOP Team" is tactical, but that is not where it ends. Like was said above, if you simply want to go out on patrols, stay Infantry.
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Old 15 February 2006, 05:46
psyopranger psyopranger is offline
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Well said TPD 1280. BTW, I ran into Grinch in the Charlotte Airport. Funny reunion, the old cotger is on a third rotation!!!

As TPD 1280 has said you also need to look at what the function of PSYOP is, you are expected to be a area expert and develop products based on this expertice that will change behaivior.

In 2 rotations to Iraq, I have seen a lot of crap products thrown together with no area expert input.

I was an 11B, Ranger, Hooah, Hooah dude who thought I was going Tactical but because of my langauge, I ended up in a Regional Battalion. At first, I was pissed. But now, I have had better assignments than most I know in all of POG.

There is also a new way of doing PSYOP that has to be part Regional and part Tactical. A lot of the SMU Detatchments are now seeing this. You have to be tactical and do face to face, leaflet drops, etc. But, you also have to be able to translate your own products and develop video capabilities.

IMO, leaflets are outdated and we should be fousing on Internet, Video and real time media applications. TAC teams could just as easily hand out VC-D's or small flash disks with messages.

You also need people skills in this MOS. You may end up in an Embassy with officers and DOS personell who expect you to be educated and brief GO's and heads of state frequently.

This is a great MOS if this is what you want to do, if you want to do patrols, teach G's and look cool, check out the SF or AWG (Asymetrical)

PR
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Old 15 February 2006, 12:42
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The Grinch is the CFLCC version of the Energizer Bunny: He just keeps going and going...

Was he still wearing that moustache?

He's making some serious coin, networking his butt off, and will be able to retire completely or parlay his experience into a sweet civilian gig when he is done.
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Old 15 February 2006, 20:35
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Thanks for all the replies. I wrote my posts quickly both times and again I don't think I worded everything correctly. I'll take a little more time to explain my stance. What I was looking for as far as differences were the TPT and PDC. I would much rather work on a TPT, but I wasn't putting anything else out of the question. I also enjoy working on the computer in my spare time, I used to do alot of graphic art and web development, and i've done alot of marketing research and such (although i've never had to market to anyone in another country :) ). I'm not trigger happy, and I do understand what PSYOP does as a whole (in as much detail as you outlined anyway, not in intricate detail), I guess I was just more interested in the TPTs, and was looking for people who have been on them to give input. Either way, one of the things I really am interested in is working with people. Although I love the infantry, I feel I have alot more to offer the Army than a good grunt, intelligence and social skills wise. The thing I enjoy the most is training others, and doing it with foreign nationals would be ideal. I've decided to give 20th group a shot (made a call on monday and got the info I needed) as I think it better suits what i'm looking for in a job, but I thank you all again for the input. If SF doesn't workout, psyop is definitely a career field I might explore in the future. Take care.
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Old 18 February 2006, 14:28
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Good luck. I'm checking out 19th Group myself.
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Old 19 February 2006, 00:19
pitbull03 pitbull03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psyopranger
Well said TPD 1280. BTW, I ran into Grinch in the Charlotte Airport. Funny reunion, the old cotger is on a third rotation!!!

As TPD 1280 has said you also need to look at what the function of PSYOP is, you are expected to be a area expert and develop products based on this expertice that will change behaivior.

In 2 rotations to Iraq, I have seen a lot of crap products thrown together with no area expert input.

I was an 11B, Ranger, Hooah, Hooah dude who thought I was going Tactical but because of my langauge, I ended up in a Regional Battalion. At first, I was pissed. But now, I have had better assignments than most I know in all of POG.

There is also a new way of doing PSYOP that has to be part Regional and part Tactical. A lot of the SMU Detatchments are now seeing this. You have to be tactical and do face to face, leaflet drops, etc. But, you also have to be able to translate your own products and develop video capabilities.

IMO, leaflets are outdated and we should be fousing on Internet, Video and real time media applications. TAC teams could just as easily hand out VC-D's or small flash disks with messages.

You also need people skills in this MOS. You may end up in an Embassy with officers and DOS personell who expect you to be educated and brief GO's and heads of state frequently.

This is a great MOS if this is what you want to do, if you want to do patrols, teach G's and look cool, check out the SF or AWG (Asymetrical)

PR
Completely agree with the above post. There are too many people stuck in the leaflet/ broadcast mentality. I was impressed with the program the Columbians presented at the 03 worldwide conference. They had internet, TV, hell they even had gameshows putting out their messages. I know there was a large community within POG who didn't want to go the internet route because they were afraid of Americans logging on and accidentally PSYOPing our own people. Meh. I know 6th BN had something on the net and I forget how they got around that problem, but there is definitely a need for an influx of creative personnel at POG. Another issue with getting out of the leaflet/ broadcast rut is revamping the approval process...but that is a whole different mess altogether that we could argue forever.
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Old 23 February 2006, 10:06
ODA 564 ODA 564 is offline
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Media selection, young Jedi, media selection.

What media does the target audience have access to?

What media do they find credible?

What is their level of literacy?

Internet media would not be effecitive in, say, the Congo, outside of the power elite. Are they the target audience? Or key communicators for the target audience?
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Old 23 February 2006, 11:29
pitbull03 pitbull03 is offline
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Originally Posted by ODA 564
pitbull03

Media selection, young Jedi, media selection.

What media does the target audience have access to?

What media do they find credible?

What is their level of literacy?

Internet media would not be effecitive in, say, the Congo, outside of the power elite. Are they the target audience? Or key communicators for the target audience?
Roger....what I was referring to was a general aversion to all things outside leaflets and broadcasts. There are several target audiences out there where we are losing the IO war because the bad guys are using multiple mediums and we are simply updating the images on the same old leaflets.
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Old 23 February 2006, 11:37
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common sense be damned! If it's high tech the POG wants, high tech the POG shall get!

ODA564 nailed it! Media selection will ALWAYS be determined by Target Audience Analysis, it doesn't matter how bad you want to use a certain medium, you cannot change this fact.

You don't even have to go to the Congo. Bosnia for example. Outside of Sarajevo, Banja Luka, and Tuzla, there wasn't a whole lot of internet while I was there.

That "leaflet/broadcast rut" was the sole source of information dissemination available to reach the target audience in Baghdad when we got there and for a very long period of time afterwards. No electricity means no TV.

As far as websites go, I worry less about US citizens surfing in and psyopping themselves than I do about how to channel the desired TA to the message and vice-versa.

New does NOT always equal better. Old does not always equal useless.

Change for the simple sake of change is rarely productive.

Show me a quantifiably better way to reach the TA, and I will use it to it's fullest extent. But just because something is old does not mean it has outlived it's usefulness, nor would making it digital automatically make it better.
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Old 23 February 2006, 11:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitbull03
Roger....what I was referring to was a general aversion to all things outside leaflets and broadcasts. There are several target audiences out there where we are losing the IO war because the bad guys are using multiple mediums and we are simply updating the images on the same old leaflets.
But which TA's are those?

The ones receiving LSB/leaflet are in the combat theater, some still living in areas that could be described as "hostile" or "denied".

once again, the folks living in Sadr City aren't surfing the web.

The few who may be, are not going to voluntarily surf in to a USACAPOC website and start believeing everything they read there.


We established a radio/tv foothold when we got there. The people immediately recognized it for what it was and rejected it out of hand.

Reason being: de-Baathification.

The old news anchors were part of the establishment, and had to be purged.
As was the name of the station, the name of the program, everything had to be changed.

Well, when the average Baghdaddy turned on his tv and did not see the news anchors he knew and trusted (and was familiar with), he went to
al-Jazeera. He knew it had not been co-opted by the western led Coalition Provisional Authority, and could be trusted to give him AN ARAB PERSPECTIVE.

Our biggest stumbling block has not been our choice of media, it has been our inability, and sometimes refusal, to think like our target audience and see things from THEIR perspective.

They use logic differently, they interpret things differently, and it has been so completely ingrained into them to distrust the West, that the coolest products with the best technology will still not reach them if they are blatantly not Arab.
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Old 23 February 2006, 12:52
pitbull03 pitbull03 is offline
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I'm not going to talk about classified target audiences where we have weaknesses over an open net.

I was referring more to strategic psyop when I was talking about more mediums. There will always be a need for leaflets and broadcasts in hostile areas and areas where the target audiences don't have access to any other forms of media, but strategic psyop has the ability to shape audiences before the onset of conflicts and I think that's where we're losing ground. I realize the target audience drives everything. There are several target audiences that are of national concern that we aren't reaching due to our aversion to grow beyond 'the leaflet and broadcast rut'.

I'm obviously not conveying my concerns well on here because you guys are arguing points that I never brought up and fully agree with you on.
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Old 23 February 2006, 12:52
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double post
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Old 23 February 2006, 12:54
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Well the lessons TPD1280 has learned.

Those that wear stars, learned these not, I fear.
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Old 23 February 2006, 13:07
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"Our biggest stumbling block has not been our choice of media, it has been our inability, and sometimes refusal, to think like our target audience and see things from THEIR perspective.

They use logic differently, they interpret things differently, and it has been so completely ingrained into them to distrust the West, that the coolest products with the best technology will still not reach them if they are blatantly not Arab."

the next thing you know you'll tell me something crazy, like we shouldn't keep using female broadcasters and singers in certain regions, just becuase THEY don't culturally accept them....

Remember the real world solution to all PSYOP questions is these two words:
leaflet blimps
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Old 23 February 2006, 13:38
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pitbull03, We agree both with the opsec concern and the strategic validity of multiple media.

My perspective is skewed from a Tactical PSYOP stand point. Unfortunately, each side of the house (TAC/STRAT) seems to frequently forget that the other is necessary and inter-related. Neither can exist alone.

I did interpret your post as being aimed at the TAC dissemination efforts, in disregard of its strategic potential. In this area you are correct. The problem remains in channeling the info to the TA. Hopefully someone will develop an answer.


as for leaflet blimps...:D
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Old 23 February 2006, 13:43
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I was lucky enough to play the game from both the strat & the tac side. It definitely is easy to get biased one way or the other. Hell, I remember being in a strat batt and getting chewed out by my 1SG for borrowing some loudspeakers from my buds in 9th and taking a bunch of guys to the woodline to do loudspeaker training for SGT's time.
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